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Post by riogrande on Jun 15, 2015 6:46:55 GMT -8
In an old Atlas forums discussion on the PC&F beer box cars, someone posted the following:
So did the C&S own any 12' door beer box cars in the 31xx number series? I didn't find any in fallen flags but am still searching.
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Post by lajrmdlr on Jun 15, 2015 8:01:59 GMT -8
Have an image of a Santa Fe double door Bx-166 that BLMA calls a beer & wine car, but it was used to haul paper rolls for a grocery bag company on the LAJ Rwy. So these car types don't always get used for just booze. They can be used for any kind of load that needs wide doors & can handle the load weight.
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Post by riogrande on Jun 15, 2015 8:10:01 GMT -8
No question about the ATSF cars, I'm wondering about the C&S cars E-R has painted BN green and numbered in the 31xx series. I've seen photo's on fallen flags with in the 29xx and 30xx numbers with 10' coors, but were there any 12' doors with 31xx numbers?
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Post by canrailfan on Jun 15, 2015 8:17:01 GMT -8
I found one car on rrpicturearchives.net with the reporting mark RBCS 3036.  However the RBCS reporting mark apparently denotes fallen flag Chicago, Burlington and Quincy under BN. David |
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Post by riogrande on Jun 15, 2015 8:26:23 GMT -8
Right, that is one of the 10 foot door cars - dated 1972 in the photo there. Confirmed those on Fallen flags already and they were listed in the original quote.
Again, ExactRail is offering the 12 foot door version produced in 1980 an numbered in the 3100 series - I have yet to find a photo to confirm those in particular.
Per Doug Stark on Train Orders a couple years ago RBCS:
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fredo
New Member
Posts: 36 
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Post by fredo on Jun 15, 2015 8:36:27 GMT -8
Why don't you E Mail Exact Rail and ask them? Then let us all know on here.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jun 15, 2015 8:38:37 GMT -8
The RBCS reporting mark was for the Colorado and Southern.
These are the RBCS cars with 12' doors:
3065-3127, 3128-3202, 3203-3222
Ed
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Post by canrailfan on Jun 15, 2015 9:01:57 GMT -8
Here's ex-RBCS 3167 as BN 734167 (from rrpicturearchives) in 1998.  Were the cars delivered in BN green?. David |
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Post by riogrande on Jun 15, 2015 9:29:26 GMT -8
fredo, ultimately I could bother Blaine but expected one of you guys would have the number series info. Thanks Ed for providing the number series.
David. The Exact Rail cars, the ones I am interested were built long after the merger/creation of the BN and would have been green from the start. I believe those had a build date of 1980. Even the one you pictured shows a new date of 1972, also after the merger, so it would have also been delivered in BN green as well. I am not a BN expert but I generally assume that freight cars delivered after the merger (1970) were painted in BN green).
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Post by drolsen on Jun 15, 2015 9:36:43 GMT -8
These are the RBCS cars with 12' doors: 3065-3127, 3128-3202, 3203-3222 There's a photo of CS 2961 on RailcarPhotos.com which has remarks indicating that CS series 2925-2964 was ex-RBCS series 2925-2964. If you're not a member (it's free), it will only show up as a smaller image: www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=14870It appears to have a 10' door, but it's 5380 cuft, which I think is smaller than the ExactRail PCF prototype. Here's a photo of an RBCS car from a subsequent series: RBCS 2974: rr-fallenflags.org/cs/rbcs2974jpa.jpgDave |
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Post by riogrande on Jun 15, 2015 9:56:01 GMT -8
Dave,
I am a member - looks like the CS2961 looks similar to the Eel River car with the straight side sill, although I think the ERM car with the 10' door has a notch side sill, the ERM car with the 12' door has the straight side sill. The ExactRail car, of course, has the notched side sill.
No photo's of the C&S cars with the notched side sills and 12' doors unearthed?
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jun 15, 2015 12:00:45 GMT -8
Here's a link to a photo of RBCS 3104: RBCS 3104It says it's 2104. But that is incorrect. Ed |
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Post by riogrande on Jun 15, 2015 12:06:59 GMT -8
Thanks Ed. What I'm trying to find are photo's of the RBCS cars delivered in 1980 with the notches in the side sills, assuming there is such a beast. (notice the trend here!) Do you happen to know build dates for any of the numbers you listed?
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jun 15, 2015 13:48:05 GMT -8
RBCS 3203-3222 were built February-March 1980.
3065-3127 were built in 1976
Ed
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Post by riogrande on Jun 15, 2015 14:23:36 GMT -8
What about 3128-3202? The number's E-R is offering in the RBCS paint are in the 3129-3170 range.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jun 15, 2015 15:27:39 GMT -8
A bit more searching turns up:
RBCS 3065-3127 3/76
RBCS 3128-3202 6&7/77
RBCS 3203-3222 2&3/80
The build dates on the Exactrail cars are wrong.
Ed
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Post by riogrande on Jun 15, 2015 15:40:39 GMT -8
Hmmm... one thing I've noticed about all the ExactRail beer cars:
They all seem to have 1980 build dates. They all have notched side sills.
Maybe prior to 1980 they were built with straight side sills it seems? Is that a pattern I'm seeing?
Anyway, things don't seem to jive so far; the photo canrailfan posted he listed as ex-RBCS 3167, which falls within the number range ExactRail offers for the RBCS beer cars, the models all have notched side sills but the photo is a straight side sill. Curiouser and curiouser.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jun 15, 2015 16:07:54 GMT -8
In this case, Exactrail foobed out. The car series they chose has a different sidesill than the model.
Since we don't have a photo of the last series, we can't rule out that they had a notched sidesill. But you will notice that Exactrail didn't use that series. And if they knew that series had a notches sidesill, they certainly would have used that number series instead.
I suppose a person could renumber the cars to the last series. This would make the build date correct. And, as long as no one every turns up a photo to disprove it, it is still possible that the last series has the notched side sill. But I surely wouldn't count on it.
Ed
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Post by riogrande on Jun 15, 2015 16:47:55 GMT -8
I was beginning to feel a disturbance in the force regarding the ExactRail RBCS cars. It does seem that if the last number series was for the notched side sill version, then ExactRail would used those numbers and been done with it so maybe those numbers were not notched either? Who knows?
If, big if, the last RBCS beer cars were built in 1980 and C&S lasted on paper until 1981 they could have been re-lettered a year later to BN anyway. I suppose the only RBCS car really worth having would be the ERM models as they would have been in that lettering scheme significantly longer.
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Post by fr8kar on Jun 15, 2015 17:49:30 GMT -8
Jim, are sure the RBCS cars were all relettered by 1981? I ask because Fort Worth and Denver was folded into BN just a couple years after yet examples of FW&D equipment could be found into the 90s.
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Post by runs2waynoka on Jun 15, 2015 19:00:23 GMT -8
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Post by riogrande on Jun 16, 2015 4:40:29 GMT -8
I did some searching there before I had knowledge of the additional car numbers, then my wife came home from a 13 hour work day and a wiser man knew it was better to let it go for a while  So your photo and data appears to indicate that at the very least, the ExactRail cars would have to be re-numbered in the 32xx numbers? I wonder why E-R didn't just number them that way and they would have been correct out of the box? Jim, are sure the RBCS cars were all relettered by 1981? I ask because Fort Worth and Denver was folded into BN just a couple years after yet examples of FW&D equipment could be found into the 90s. I was thinking about Doug Starks comment "For legal reasons the C&S existed as a paper subsidiary of BN until Dec. 31, 1981." and was speculating the cars might have started getting re-lettered to BN soon after that date, however that may not have happened until much later, perhaps not until 1990 or so. Again, Doug's comment I had forgotten to take into consideration: "The subject cars were all absorbed into the BN roster by the early 1990s." Perhaps when they were absorbed into the roster at that time, they were rebadged to BN from RBCS. Where are we so far in the saga of the ExactRail RBCS cars? Based on the most recent photo evidence (BN 734219 from class 734303-734222, ex-RBCS 3203-3222), it appears there were indeed Colorado & Southern RBCS notched side sill cars with 12' doors to "almost" match the Exact Rail cars. The puzzling question is why didn't E-R number their model in the 3203-3222 series? The build date of 1980 seems to true up with the other E-R cars as well. |
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