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Post by nebrzephyr on Jun 23, 2015 9:05:15 GMT -8
So I had seen various videos on the web about using the "sugar cube" speakers. Well, I wondered how much was fact or fiction. So I purchased some from Mouser and tried one. All I can say is WOW!!! Below are a couple photos of the sound box I made. Plus a video showing the difference. The 2 engines in the video have the same LOKSound Select decoders and the same sound file, configured exacting the same. The only difference is the speaker. In #129 is a well known "bass enhanced" 14mmx36mm speaker. In #152 is the "sugar cube". Needless to say I was impressed for $2.05 plus some scrap styrene. I recorded this on my iPad so you might have to crank up the volume when playing the video. Bob    |
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Post by Christian on Jun 23, 2015 9:17:06 GMT -8
Yes. That is noticeable. Thank you for the with and without test. Knowing it is iPad video is just icing on the test.
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Post by NS4122 on Jun 23, 2015 12:06:23 GMT -8
Bob,
The difference is amazing.
What were the dimensions of the "sugar cube" with the enclosure that you made? It looks pretty large in your photo. Where did you place it in the model?
Thanks,
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Post by nebrzephyr on Jun 23, 2015 13:01:49 GMT -8
Bob, The difference is amazing. What were the dimensions of the "sugar cube" with the enclosure that you made? It looks pretty large in your photo. Where did you place it in the model? Thanks, Yes, I probably should have reduced the size of the photo. Dimensions are 15mm wide, 20mm long, 13mm high. Here's a photo of the "cube" in the GP60. Bob  |
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Post by NS4122 on Jun 23, 2015 15:14:43 GMT -8
Bob, The difference is amazing. What were the dimensions of the "sugar cube" with the enclosure that you made? It looks pretty large in your photo. Where did you place it in the model? Thanks, Yes, I probably should have reduced the size of the photo. Dimensions are 15mm wide, 20mm long, 13mm high. Here's a photo of the "cube" in the GP60. Bob View AttachmentThanks, Bob. That size enclosure should fit in most models. |
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Post by nebrzephyr on Jun 24, 2015 5:39:36 GMT -8
Thanks, Bob. That size enclosure should fit in most models. I'm going to try a box that is a tad lower in height, say 9 - 10mm high just to see if there is any noticeable difference in sound. I think a 9 - 10mm box would fit in more situations. Bob |
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Post by Mark R. on Jun 24, 2015 17:40:46 GMT -8
Try making some enclosures from thin ply wood - really warms the sound !  Mark. |
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Post by nebrzephyr on Jun 25, 2015 5:54:32 GMT -8
Try making some enclosures from thin ply wood - really warms the sound ! Mark. Interesting. I do have some scraps of pretty thin basswood from previous layout projects. I'll have to see if it's thin enough to make a box and still fit in a loco shell. Bob |
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Post by Mark R. on Jun 25, 2015 7:14:09 GMT -8
Sugar cube speakers have a vibrating membrane as opposed to a moving cone to create the sound. They don't require the same air volume in an enclosure like a typical speaker. Your enclosure could be 1/4 the size or smaller than you have and it will still work just as well. Consider how big the enclosure for those speakers are in a cell phone or tablet !
Mark.
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Post by canrailfan on Jun 25, 2015 10:23:22 GMT -8
Hi Bob,
Thanks for the side-by-side demo, the sound difference is very noticeable.
You could reduce the height by half and probably not notice any difference in the sound. I've been working with the Knowles 'Cobra' speaker for a few months now, trying different-sized enclosures and various materials. It seems it's almost impossible to get 'bad' sound from these speakers, they work well in many different enclosure designs. The Knowles Tech Note for their speaker suggests an enclosure volume of 1 cubic cm but I've found half that works just as well.
The enclosures don't have to be cuboid, they can be custom-fitted into an available cavity inside the locomotive frame or shell. It's also more feasible to have multiple speakers if needed.
David
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Post by nebrzephyr on Jun 25, 2015 16:13:19 GMT -8
Mark and David......thanks for the info on the aspects on the "sound box". Good to know. Just another advantage of the "cubes".
Bob
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Post by Mark R. on Jun 25, 2015 17:23:08 GMT -8
David, using the dimensions of your Cobra speaker (15mm X 11mm), to attain an enclosure of 1 cubic cm., the enclosure would be only 6.06 mm or just under 1/4 inch thick (0.238"). So, going by factory specifications, the enclosure should be considerably smaller than what Bob is using for optimum sound.
Mark.
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Post by nebrzephyr on Jul 2, 2015 6:36:49 GMT -8
Sugar cube speakers have a vibrating membrane as opposed to a moving cone to create the sound. They don't require the same air volume in an enclosure like a typical speaker. Your enclosure could be 1/4 the size or smaller than you have and it will still work just as well. Consider how big the enclosure for those speakers are in a cell phone or tablet ! Mark. So I made a new enclosure approximately 4mm in height. The resulting sound was just as good as the first taller ones I had made. Interesting note on "sealing" the speaker to the enclosure. Not wanted to risk a speaker if the enclosure was not going to work I just taped the speaker into the enclosure with masking tape, making sure all edges were covered. I tested the result and said to myself, "This sound sucks!". Bearly audible. Then I remembered Mark's comment about cellphones and tablets. So I said what the heck, lets seal the speaker into the enclose with silicon. Sure enough, the expected sound was there. Bob |
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Jul 4, 2015 6:37:52 GMT -8
Any chance of a photo of the 'sugarcane' by itself (no enclosure) next to a ruler or dime or something?
While you're at it a link and part number to Mouser?
Impressive sound, lots of potential for future uses.
Thank yo for the information.
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Post by nebrzephyr on Jul 4, 2015 7:12:42 GMT -8
dimensions 13mm x 18mm x 2mm  Mouser |
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Post by Mark R. on Jul 4, 2015 8:43:15 GMT -8
Something to keep in mind - especially if you are using Loksound decoders. Loksound decoders support speaker ratings down to 4 ohms. Typically, the lower the ohm rating of the speaker, the higher the wattage rating. The one Bob used is an 8 ohm version that is rated at 0.6 watts. If you browse the Mouser site for Knowles speakers, they have a slightly smaller version (15mm X 11mm) with a similar decible rating, but is a 6 ohm speaker and has a 1.0 watt rating ! There are SO many of these little speakers out there, it can be tough narrowing down the best options. My current favorite is the replacement speaker for the HTC ONE M8 .... www.cnet.com/news/htc-one-m8-speaker-comparison/ . Mark. |
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Post by canrailfan on Jul 4, 2015 12:33:49 GMT -8
The Knowles 6 ohm speaker is the 'Cobra' model I mentioned. Digikey part number is 423-1201-ND, price is 1@ 2.44, 10-49 @ 2.0350. Mouser part number is 721-240326000091, price is 1@ 2.77, 10-24@ 2.41, 25-49@ 1.88 Technical Spec Sheet is at www.knowles.com/index.php/eng/content/download/3228/38411/version/3/file/2403+260+00091+Cobra.pdfDon't let the 6 ohm impedance keep you from trying these speakers with Tsunami decoders. I spoke to Jarrette Ireland of Soundtraxx at last January's Springfield show and he indicated the 6 ohm speaker would work fine with the Tsunami decoder at reasonable sound levels. I've had the Cobras installed with several Tsunami decoders since then and all are working fine. I do keep the volume fairly low on my locos, following the '6 foot' general rule for setting the volume. David |
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Post by canrailfan on Jul 4, 2015 14:15:54 GMT -8
Here are a couple of photos to illustrate the small size of these speakers. First is the bare Knowles Cobra speaker and one in a enclosure made of 0.040" styrene.  Here's the enclosed speaker installed in an Atlas GP38-2 with a Tsunami decoder. It fits easily on top of the decoder (with a piece of double-sided foam tape) and doesn't require cutting or modifying the weights.  David |
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Jul 4, 2015 17:47:22 GMT -8
Thanks all that posted photos, they are very helpful.
Now I just have to get a couple of those speakers.
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Post by Mark R. on Jul 4, 2015 18:46:14 GMT -8
Bob - For your next installation, you should try mounting the speaker the other way around - with the contacts on the inside of the enclose. The "front" of these speakers is on the opposite side of the contacts. May or may not make a difference ....
Mark.
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Post by nebrzephyr on Jul 5, 2015 8:08:21 GMT -8
Bob - For your next installation, you should try mounting the speaker the other way around - with the contacts on the inside of the enclose. The "front" of these speakers is on the opposite side of the contacts. May or may not make a difference .... Mark. Interesting. Since this was my first go at the sugar cube I had reverted back to the old fashion speakers and where most of the time the "cone" would be facing into the sound box. But your comment and the photo canrailfan posted would indicate I made a bad assumption. Thanks for the heads up. Bob |
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Post by canrailfan on Jul 5, 2015 9:08:19 GMT -8
Hi Bob,
I have the speakers mounted both ways, facing in and facing out. As I said, it seems almost impossible to get bad sound using the Cobra speaker, it works well in so many different enclosure sizes and shapes, facing in or facing out.
If you are happy with the sound you are hearing, having the speaker face into the enclosure, you certainly didn't make a bad assumption. It works for you, that's the main point. Try one facing out and see if you hear any difference. One of the many things that I like about these speakers is the price is low enough to make experimenting possible without breaking the bank. I've damaged a couple of speakers since I started, although one is still my 'fit check' speaker when I'm building new enclosures. The 'facing out' mounting is a bit more work to build and it's critical that the speaker face not be touched when sealing it into the enclosure.
David
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Post by nebrzephyr on Jul 5, 2015 10:39:14 GMT -8
Hi Bob, I have the speakers mounted both ways, facing in and facing out. As I said, it seems almost impossible to get bad sound using the Cobra speaker, it works well in so many different enclosure sizes and shapes, facing in or facing out. If you are happy with the sound you are hearing, having the speaker face into the enclosure, you certainly didn't make a bad assumption. It works for you, that's the main point. Try one facing out and see if you hear any difference. One of the many things that I like about these speakers is the price is low enough to make experimenting possible without breaking the bank. I've broken a couple since I started, although one is still my 'fit check' speaker when I'm building new enclosures. The 'facing out' mounting is a bit more work to build and it's critical that the speaker face not be touched when sealing it into the enclosure. David David....thanks for the feedback. I'm so blown away by the sound from these little babies I didn't even think about mounting face up. Bob |
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Apr 15, 2017 6:16:43 GMT -8
Since this was originally posted I have acquired quite a few of the Knowles Cobra sugar cube speakers described. They have all worked great. I need some new ones and have found out the link shown from Knowles is invalid now and the Mouser website also does not list anything like them. Does anyone currently have a source for these speakers? I acquired a half dozen speakers that are for an iphone 5 they are about 1/2 the size of the Knowles Cobra, however, the one I used didn't work out so well. I don't know the ohm rating of them and will hesitate to try to use again. ESU and Litchfield station are selling the sugar cubes with enclosures for around $10 each so I may stick with them. Sometimes, tho, I'd like to use my own enclosure, like I did with my SW-1, for tighter clearance locations.  |
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Post by Mark R. on Apr 15, 2017 16:14:52 GMT -8
The ESU ones come as a kit. Just the speaker and some bits and pieces to create different sized enclosures. Make the job pretty simple.
Mark.
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Post by nebrzephyr on Apr 16, 2017 11:22:23 GMT -8
Karl, I'm pretty sure the Knowles Cobra was discontinued. Here's the one I've been using as a replacement. Sounds just as good. Bob Sugar Baby |
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Post by Mark R. on Apr 16, 2017 15:50:04 GMT -8
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Post by nebrzephyr on Apr 17, 2017 5:15:47 GMT -8
Mark, thanks. That does look like it would be a good replacement for those "tight fit" situations. Bob |
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Apr 18, 2017 5:56:00 GMT -8
Bob and Mark, thanks for the information. I will probably order a few of them.
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Post by canrailfan on Apr 18, 2017 11:05:42 GMT -8
Karl, I'm pretty sure the Knowles Cobra was discontinued. Here's the one I've been using as a replacement. Sounds just as good. Bob Sugar BabyUnfortunately it appears Knowles is no longer in the micro-speaker business. They sold this product line to an investment company and there is no information about whether the speakers will be produced in the future. Knowles News ReleaseI liked the Knowles speakers over the ones from PUI and CUI. |
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