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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2012 11:46:37 GMT -8
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Post by rockisland652 on Aug 3, 2012 12:13:52 GMT -8
...and for you youngster kitbashers out there, the E7 comes with only one porthole to be filled.
They still have the new Walthers standard hard-cornered cab windows though.
The relatively blank sides make this a decent starting point for a latter-day E7 conversion.
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Post by calzephyr on Aug 3, 2012 12:26:30 GMT -8
...and for you youngster kitbashers out there, the E7 comes with only one porthole to be filled. They still have the new Walthers standard hard-cornered cab windows though. The relatively blank sides make this a decent starting point for a latter-day E7 conversion. This train was a surprise since many on other forums had reported the Metro train was their new train. This is a nice looking train and it will be interesting to see how it sells. Larry |
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Post by atsfan on Aug 3, 2012 12:46:26 GMT -8
This seems like a limited seller. Must have been easy to reuse previous tooling?
I would have thought an east coast train to Florida would be in the works.
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Post by atsfan on Aug 3, 2012 12:49:29 GMT -8
This seems like a limited seller. Must have been easy to reuse previous tooling?
I would have thought an east coast train to Florida would be in the works.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2012 12:49:49 GMT -8
This seems like a limited seller. Must have been easy to reuse previous tooling? BINGO!!!!! Other than the E7A, Walthers is trying to reheat the souffle, and missing the important tail car. It will be interesting to see how well it is received. I'm thinking PM and C&O fans are not going to be selling their brass versions anytime soon....  |
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Post by riogrande on Aug 3, 2012 13:56:08 GMT -8
This train was a surprise since many on other forums had reported the Metro train was their new train. This is a nice looking train and it will be interesting to see how it sells. Larry Not to me since others had already commented on how Walthers usually does the passneger train featured on the cover of their catelog which has been out already. There is already a lot of chatter on the D&RGW list about the cars since some may have overlapped orders taken by the Rio Grande. |
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Aug 3, 2012 15:44:33 GMT -8
I was at the show today and at first was real excited in the Pere Marquette and told the Walthers rep as much but then looked closer and realized that they are NOT doing the 1946 Pere Marquette with the bow wave paint job on the small number board Ph I E-7 but the red headed stepchild C&O paint job with Pere Marquette just painted on the grey band and C&O lettering on the cars from the 1954 era train. I saw no evidence of the square end obs/coach cars the original train had 2 of on each train, to keep from having to turn the train at either GR or Detroit. They just turned the power and swapped the head end cars to the other end to go back.
Here is how the train SHOULD look...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pere_Marquette_Railway_streamliner.JPG
I hope they get enough feedback that they invest in doing it right. Else I will have to pass on this one. Even tho it ran just 3 miles from where I now live. After posting i read the release dates, I guess it's too much to hope for to do the original. Oh well, i have a stash of P-S cars in the basement that look a whole lot like these, smooth upper side and fluted below windows with skirting. Paid a whole lot less, too. Time to get the creative juices flowing.
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Post by atsfan on Aug 3, 2012 16:40:30 GMT -8
I think they just cut corners.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Aug 3, 2012 17:27:51 GMT -8
If I were a PM modeler, I'd be in a foul mood.
Who knows, when they do the North Coast Limited, maybe they'll just paint their Empire Builder in two-tone green.
Ed
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Post by Amboy Secondary on Aug 3, 2012 19:05:37 GMT -8
If I were a PM modeler, I'd be in a foul mood. Who knows, when they do the North Coast Limited, maybe they'll just paint their Empire Builder in two-tone green. Ed Yea, but..... On the bright side, the train consist offers a C&O plan 4167 10-6 (actually 5 roomettes - 6 double bedrooms mid car - and 5 roomettes, suitable for all C&O 10-6 cars, not just the Chicago - Grand Rapids - Traverse City PM sleeper; plus four of the B&O 4147 10-6s and the Rio Grande "Prospector" 5 section, 6 double bedroom, 5 roomette sleepers. The coaches appear to be the previously issued C&O 52 seat divided coaches. The Lunch Counter Lounge, (Chessie Club), will work for the C&O, the D&RGW, and late D&H or PRR/PC Lunch counter lounges (from D&RGW). Does anyone have any idea as to what the "Diner Coach is? The rendering on the WKW web site is identical to the 52 seat divided coach w/o skirts. It does not appear to be the observation car of the 1946 train, based on the drawing. I do not know much about the PM operation and consist, but my C&O PTT for 1955 indicates that each day train had coaches, Tavern Diner, and C&O Parlor (not modeled). My 1964 C&O/B&O PTT indicates that the PMs had coaches and tavern diners. The night Chicago - GR train shows coaches and the Traverse City (Petosky) 10-6. It appears that this offering might benefit main line C&O modelers and DRGW D&H, B&O and late PRR/PC modelers such as my self more than PM modelers. The head end equipment, (based only on the renderings on the Walthers web site), appear to be the GN ACF RPO/Bag from the EB and possibly a painted ATSF style PS roofed Bag; neither of which is a factual C&O prototype model. FWIW: Walthers did a bad job on the TCL, a Superior job on the Broadway. I cannot comment on the Western trains, and I'm not so sure about the PM, although I might go for a couple of 4147 Pullmans and a Lunch Counter - lounge, (for my 1967 Broadway Limited). Noteworthy, the web site indicates an August 31 order deadline. They better come up with some better car renderings or it may be a limited interest run. Joe |
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Post by railthunder on Aug 3, 2012 19:38:53 GMT -8
This seems like a limited seller. Must have been easy to reuse previous tooling? I would have thought an east coast train to Florida would be in the works. Eventhough I would love a Florida train more than anything this was an interesting move by Walthers that I'm glad to see them do it. Sure, they didn't do the tail car and that probably wasn't the best move as I would not have done the RPO. On a positive note I'm thrilled they did the 10-6 sleeper as I'll get several of those. Since they stepped outside the box of the actual Pere Marquette service with the 10-6 maybe they'll consider other Chessie signature cars in the future such as the Cabin Dome and Dome Observation. Perhaps thats why they didn't do an observation the first time as they have the dome in the pipeline for a future date. |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Aug 4, 2012 2:35:59 GMT -8
The head end equipment, (based only on the renderings on the Walthers web site), appear to be the GN ACF RPO/Bag from the EB and possibly a painted ATSF style PS roofed Bag; neither of which is a factual C&O prototype model. I believe that the baggage car is pretty much correct--Walthers did it before: www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-6815The new car is listed as having a plated surface. That'll be nice. The train should be pretty, even if it's pretty much wrong. Ed |
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Aug 4, 2012 5:45:24 GMT -8
The Walthers rep said the whole cars were going to be plated, as the new El Cap cars are, and then the blue and yellow will be painted over the plating. The baggage car Ed linked to pretty closely matches the information in the book on the 1946 PM. The '46 train was built by Pullman Standard. I'm happy for the C&O fans with the new stuff that works for them, but for a true PM fan....  no cigar.... Maybe they'll come out with the original C&O RoadRailer semi trailer that they ran behind the train sometime later. |
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Post by riogrande on Aug 4, 2012 7:48:19 GMT -8
The baggage car looks similar if not the same as the D&RGW P-S baggages, but the confusing thing is the picture in the link above, shown above, gives a picture of a fluted skirted Pere Marquette baggage but it shows a sale price under it (yet these shouldn't be available yet?).
When I look at the road names below and click on D&RGW, it shows a differnt baggage with no skirts etc.
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Post by atsfan on Aug 4, 2012 8:01:18 GMT -8
Remember Walthers is also going to do Amfleet cars.
Those look nice and are much needed.
The El Cap train is sure nice.
I don't need a Pere train though.
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Post by riogrande on Aug 4, 2012 9:19:29 GMT -8
Some of the Pere passneger cars may match some of the P-S cars D&RGW so I need to figure that out. From the Walthers site photo's - possibly the diner, baggage and coach. I have the 52 seat coaches so I'm guessing Walthers is just re-using the tooling on the that coach. The photo on the website of the baggage looks identical to the coach? I know the real diner D&RGW had has windows on both ends and a blank are on the middles sides.
I'm not sure about the sleeper. D&RGW purchased from P-S slots originally ordered by C&O - Baggage, RPO, Combines, Coaches, Diners, Lounges and Sleepers, and dome-chair cars (budd).
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Post by edwardsutorik on Aug 4, 2012 15:12:14 GMT -8
...the picture in the link above, shown above, gives a picture of a fluted skirted Pere Marquette baggage but it shows a sale price under it (yet these shouldn't be available yet?). As I mentioned (and illustrated), these cars have been previously produced. You are referring to a re-issue that will be plated and has yet to be produced. Ed |
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Post by riogrande on Aug 4, 2012 17:40:33 GMT -8
Hmmm... I didn't remember seeing that baggage before. I've been over most of the Wathers cars to see if any matched the D&RGW besides the 52 seat fluted coach and don't recall seeing any other matches. Based on that, the baggaged may not be any good but I'll go get Jim Eagers color guide and take a second look at that previously produced baggage.
Edit: yep, no match, only a vague stand-in. The real Prospector Pullman Standard baggage was 85' and had 6 rows of vents on the roof, not 4, and the left baggaged door had 4 windows in it, not 3. It looks like the Walthers model is a shorty in comparison. Oh well.
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Post by Amboy Secondary on Aug 5, 2012 4:07:56 GMT -8
I'm not sure what Walthers was thinking of with their choice of the PM, which was a relatively obscure regional service, even compared to the mainstream C&O service. Perhaps, they were swayed by the location of the Convention in the Hub City of the PM service. In any event, it appears that the only new tooling was for the Sleeping car and the Lunch counter - lounge.
Some of these cars are suitable for C&O service, some may be suitable for Rio Grande service, others are at least close to cars used on the NKP, B&O, SAL, ACL, SCL, PRR, D&H and Amtrak. I suppose that even a big player like WKW cannot tool everyone's hopes and desires, and as such shortcuts their theme trains.
As an Eastern modeler, I can use the coach, the lunch counter and the sleeper to cobble together a reasonable George Washington, filling out the head end with some stand in head end cars, as well as Atlas announced RTR version of the Branchline C&O paired window coach.
Hopefully, Walthers will offer the Sleeper in B&O.
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Post by fmilhaupt on Aug 5, 2012 6:48:07 GMT -8
I'm not sure what Walthers was thinking of with their choice of the PM, which was a relatively obscure regional service, even compared to the mainstream C&O service. Perhaps, they were swayed by the location of the Convention in the Hub City of the PM service. In any event, it appears that the only new tooling was for the Sleeping car and the Lunch counter - lounge. There are two clever things about this train from a hypothetical Walthers point-of-view: 1) They only had to create tooling for two fully new cars (as you mentioned), and a new interior and roof vent for the diner-coach. I kitbashed one the same way for the PMHS newsletter a number of years back. 2) You can make a complete train with fewer than the usual 9-14 cars. This makes for a more affordable train for consumers. Being less expensive is more likely to get people who never heard of the Pere Marquette service to bite on a pretty train. An added benefit for Walthers is that the lower number of body types requires fewer production slots in China. I'm overlooking my disappointment over the RPO with my happiness over the Chessie Club and the much-needed C&O 10-6, which benefit almost anybody modeling the C&O's passenger operations system-wide in the streamliner era. Plus, this means that the fluted/skirted coaches will be available again. And the list of owners of the Plan 4167 (and variants) whose modelers can benefit from future runs from this tooling is pretty large. Yeah, I'd have liked a 1946 Pere Marquette, but the train as modeled with the Walthers cars (RPO excepted) lasted in service much longer. The 1946 PM coaches and coach-observation cars were sold off in 1951. With the exception of the baggage car and the E7, all of the Walthers equipment lasted on the C&O until Amtrak Day. |
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Aug 5, 2012 9:16:46 GMT -8
Excellent points Fritz. I do have to confess to disappointment over the cars missing from the '46 train as I am not really a C&O modeler, just a PM fan from proximity. That train would not fit in on my layout any more than my 20th Century or El Cap, but they are well ensconced in Rule #1.
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Post by Amboy Secondary on Aug 5, 2012 9:22:58 GMT -8
I'm overlooking my disappointment over the RPO with my happiness over the Chessie Club and the much-needed C&O 10-6, which benefit almost anybody modeling the C&O's passenger operations system-wide in the streamliner era. Plus, this means that the fluted/skirted coaches will be available again. And the list of owners of the Plan 4167 (and variants) whose modelers can benefit from future runs from this tooling is pretty large. With the exception of the baggage car and the E7, all of the Walthers equipment lasted on the C&O until Amtrak Day. The more I think about the train, the more I like it. Like you, I'm thrilled with the "Chessie Club" and the sleeper. I could use a couple of the coaches also. If I can find a suitable HW RPO and HW Baggage, two sleepers and three coaches plus the "Chessie Club" will make a reasonable example of the George Washington out of DC in October 1966 I guess its too much to hope for a PS 5DB obs in either the sleeper-lounge or tavern diner form or a Budd Tavern Diner Observation. |
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Post by riogrande on Aug 8, 2012 12:49:08 GMT -8
If anyone cares about Rio Grande interest in the C&O Walthers cars announced. Comments from the Glen Leasure on the Rio Grande Yahoo Groups email list:
Bottom line for D&RGW fans:
52 Seat Coach (not a new car) - picture shows without skirts, which some of the D&RGW coaches had the skirts removed in the 1960's.
The diner is no good unless used as a total stand-in or modified.
The new cars which are of use are the Lunch Counter Lounge and the 10-6 Sleepr.
The baggage car looks very similar but is too short. A stretch to 85' and modification to the doors would make it look much closer.
Jim Fitch
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no cigar.... 