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Post by atsfan on Oct 7, 2015 11:42:24 GMT -8
Are we talking about the cylindrical car or the ACF car?
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Post by wp8thsub on Oct 7, 2015 11:45:06 GMT -8
And it's very hard to judge the quality of the detail and the clarity of the windows of the forthcoming 1973 Ford F-100 pickups from the artist's renderings posted. Having seen and handled the pre-production F100 at Portland, I think the "artist's rendering" part of the Atlas illustrations is limited to the color schemes being depicted (i.e. I'd bet it's a photo of the actual vehicle with the different colors added). Everything else looks like the model they had on display, right down to the casting gate marks inside the tailgate. Unless they've substantially retooled since the train show, that's what you're gonna get.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 7, 2015 11:51:01 GMT -8
Ok, the PC car was a bust, but what about the 89’ flat cars... I bought a bunch of these when they came out. I REALLY didn't (and don't) like the fact that there are big old inserts in the deck. As much as I can, I'm going to put 40' containers on these to cover them. Which will also involve coming up with much thinner folded hitches that will fit underneath said containers. It's amazing that Atlas neglected to design these models to accept containers, since the prototype did. And then there's that fooby GN version they did........... Ed
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Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 7, 2015 11:56:22 GMT -8
Well, I DO like their new 5077's. Very nice. And I like my two FEC non-garbage flats--they look great in intermodal service.
Ed
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Post by dti406 on Oct 7, 2015 12:03:23 GMT -8
Are we talking about the cylindrical car or the ACF car? They are both ACF cars! what's your point? Rick J
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Post by riogrande on Oct 7, 2015 12:06:33 GMT -8
I agree with you Ed on the Atlas 89' flat cars and the deck inserts - with the unsightly gap. Ug. IMO, Walthers beat Atlas in the flush deck TOFC car department. I have at least 23 Walthers flush deck 89' flat cars (from memory) but only bought 3 Atlas 89' flat cars new as they were a disappointment - only later did I add a 4th one from a train show used for $10 (FEC).
The Atlas cars are "all purpose" aren't they? They should accept containers with pedistals.
I have noticed a lot of foobies from Atlas lately - flat cars included. The TTAX are long sold out and I could used a couple of them
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Post by buffalobill on Oct 7, 2015 13:03:37 GMT -8
Rob: I think you are right about the 1973 pickup, I had much higher hopes for it, given some of the other Ford's Atlas has imported in the past. At least the production units should not have the "clouded" windshield glass. I wanted a couple for Farm trucks. But I may have to live with my single NEO F-100, a much better looking model. For the price, the Classic Metal works models do offer a better value, as Ed pointed out. The Green F-350 picture brings back memories, as I had a 73 F-100, in a slightly different shade of green. It was a Good truck. the salt just destroyed it.
Jim, you are right, the Walthers Bethlehem car is a better choice for an out of the box 1970's era TTX 89' Piggyback flat. The Atlas car sits a little awkward, and has those inserts. Ed S. I will agree the Atlas FMC-5077 is a very nice car, I am waiting for three BN's; but so was their last years run of National Steel Car Plug door cars. I am definitely up for more newly tooled Atlas cars, with State of the Art tooling, but warmed over 10 to 15 year old tooling cars at Tangent or Exactrail like pricing, it just isn't cutting it. The ACF 5701 Plastic Pellet cars mentioned don't measure up to what the competitors are offering at around the same price point. Sorry. Bill
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Post by Mark R. on Oct 7, 2015 14:06:30 GMT -8
That artist rendering doesn't look much better than thoses old plastic Life Like ford pickups ....
Hope the actual product is much better than the rendering for that price point.
Mark.
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Post by drolsen on Oct 7, 2015 14:46:14 GMT -8
Are we talking about the cylindrical car or the ACF car? As Rick said, both cars are ACF prototypes, but they were talking about the cylindrical car. The August 2006 announcement included the upgraded tooling - a see-through plastic roofwalk: www.atlasrr.com/HOFreight/hocylin2.htmThe ACF 5701 has been unchanged since it was released. I'll add my disappointment about the ACF 5701 / 5748 / 5800 tooling. The chunky end ladders were a step backward from the ACF 4650, in my opinion. I'd like to try detailing a few, since they are important prototype cars, but there are no Plano roofwalks to upgrade them, so I'd still be stuck with the mediocre Atlas running boards. The Atlas 89' flat deck inserts really look terrible if they're not concealed by trailers or containers. I know they were trying to save money and avoid tooling multiple decks, but on a model with such an expansive deck like an 89' flat, it just jumps right out like huge cracks in an ice skating rink. I bought one undecorated car that I'm going to try to fill the seams on to see if I can have one example of the prototype to mix into my fleet of the much better-looking Athearn Genesis and Walthers flats. Dave
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Post by wp8thsub on Oct 7, 2015 16:15:55 GMT -8
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Post by dti406 on Oct 7, 2015 16:48:32 GMT -8
The ACF 5701 has been unchanged since it was released. I'll add my disappointment about the ACF 5701 / 5748 / 5800 tooling. The chunky end ladders were a step backward from the ACF 4650, in my opinion. I'd like to try detailing a few, since they are important prototype cars, but there are no Plano roofwalks to upgrade them, so I'd still be stuck with the mediocre Atlas running boards. Dave Dave, my 5701 came with a metal roof walk as in my picture of the Dependable Feed car. Rick
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Post by drolsen on Oct 8, 2015 5:56:00 GMT -8
Rick, I know that this isn't that important to most people, but I don't like how Atlas made the running boards one continuous section (if I recall correctly), rather than including the seams between the roofwalk panels. Since we spend so much time looking at the tops of our models, that's a detail that stands out to be on the prototype (and absent on the model). Plano made replacement roofwalks for the previous covered hopper models that came with molded plastic roofwalks, but Keith told me that people aren't interested in going to the trouble of replacing the Atlas etched roofwalks, so he won't be producing them for those models, which I totally understand from a business standpoint.
I know most people have a model railroad to build and don't have time to worry about this kind of detail, but as someone who won't settle down and build a layout for another decade or so, I enjoy trying to build the most accurate freight cars that I can achieve.
Dave
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Post by lvrr325 on Oct 8, 2015 13:24:07 GMT -8
The Life-Like pickup always seemed reasonably accurate to me, you just had to overlook that all the detail was molded in, and that they picked the later square headlights. They're perfect for an auto-rack load, at any rate, provided you add a bit of styrene so they can't be seen through.
One problem with HO vehicles now is they have to be licensed and everyone is now afraid of being sued because somebody's dumb kid choked to death on one. That's I think why you are not seeing many GM cars done lately. Possible the truck's proportions are off to make it meet the minimum size requirements to prevent choking.
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Post by marknycfan on Oct 8, 2015 16:04:32 GMT -8
With 15 locomotives coming (already many months delayed) it's no wonder they're only announcing rolling stock.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2015 18:36:32 GMT -8
I originally was excited for the Ford trucks, but the overall quality doesn't look that good. Windows being the weakest area to my eyes. Would like to see them in person to see what the final product looks like. I think those renderings are the 3D printed pre-production sample from the show...with computer-generated coloring...I hope the windshields are more clear...myself.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2015 18:47:36 GMT -8
Atlas has in the recent past migrated a bunch of their regular-line cars to their Master line, with a higher pricetag. The ACF cylindicals with all the cast-on grabs and thick plastic roofwalk are included (I recently bought one thinking it had some upgrades to put it in the Master line, nope - same quality and tooling as the prior cars in their regular line). Compared to a Tangent car, this car is really crude and clunky looking. This was brought up to them a few years back at the WGH show in Schaumberg IL. The lack of tooling fidelity was explained in relation to the price...when compared to similarly priced Tangent and ExactRail cars...at that time. The ACF 4650 cars were okay...but also had thinner (but cast on) details on their ends...for the $30-35 MSRP...when they probably should have been priced closer to $20-25 a piece...for the amount of detail on them. The ACF 5701...NOT so much... On the bright side...they roll very nicely...but Atlas hasn't been too interested in "upping the bar" in quite some time. They have settled into a more "bachmann-like" genre with most of their stuff. Heck, their locomotive motors aren't even good anymore. I remember them asking for clarification on a set of numerals on the side of a proposed MoPac RS-11 once...which was a bridge weight designation...and then they put this beautiful early MP paint job on their RS-11 WITH DYNAMIC BRAKES. Any-who...I'm okay with whatever comes out these days...and (other than tonight) don't get too riled up anymore about this stuff. We have it better than we've ever had it in HO...IMO. And, if I can't live with the errors on the B23-7...or ACF Covered Hoppers; I don't buy 'em. Cheers!!!
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Oct 9, 2015 6:18:09 GMT -8
Thomas, Atlas only makes RS-11's with dynamic brakes. It's been that way for 25-30 years. It's part of their "Atlas Classic" line, and the old tooling isn't set up for a non-dynamic slide to fit in. The compromise is that it's supposed to keep the prices lower. That price is now at $160 w/o sound. Since the price for non-Classic locos is now $170, that's not much in savings anymore.
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Post by hovehicle on Oct 9, 2015 10:38:12 GMT -8
Guys,
Atlas will not release the new pickup with frosted windshields or those awful looking tires and wheels. Their last releases have been the 1978 Ford Fairmont sedan, 1978 Ford Fairmont station wagon, and 1993 Ford Explorer. All were very well done in my opinion with separate wheels and tires, and clear lenses for the headlights and tail lights, AND clear windshields. Every separate piece adds to the cost of the model. Very few items are cheap in this hobby anymore, unless manufacturers go to different countries to build new products.
Atlas prices have gone up substantially over the past 5 years but I do have a suggestion. I would love to see a real partnership between Atlas and Welly to make HO vehicles in diecast. Did you see the prices on the Welly vehicles? Much lower, and very decent quality for the price.
Ford vehicles do not require the very stupid choke tube test, only GM. I heard from a very reliable source within the industry that we're probably only going to see Ford and European vehicles simply because it's easier. Even Chrysler has a substantially higher cost now for licensing, which kills then off for consideration in HO.
Vito L.
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Post by atsfan on Oct 9, 2015 13:33:21 GMT -8
Guys, Atlas will not release the new pickup with frosted windshields or those awful looking tires and wheels. Their last releases have been the 1978 Ford Fairmont sedan, 1978 Ford Fairmont station wagon, and 1993 Ford Explorer. All were very well done in my opinion with separate wheels and tires, and clear lenses for the headlights and tail lights, AND clear windshields. Every separate piece adds to the cost of the model. Very few items are cheap in this hobby anymore, unless manufacturers go to different countries to build new products. Atlas prices have gone up substantially over the past 5 years but I do have a suggestion. I would love to see a real partnership between Atlas and Welly to make HO vehicles in diecast. Did you see the prices on the Welly vehicles? Much lower, and very decent quality for the price. Ford vehicles do not require the very stupid choke tube test, only GM. I heard from a very reliable source within the industry that we're probably only going to see Ford and European vehicles simply because it's easier. Even Chrysler has a substantially higher cost now for licensing, which kills then off for consideration in HO. Vito L. Japanese, Korean, or German cars? They make up a laege portion of the cars on USA highways.
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Post by theengineshed on Oct 9, 2015 17:24:19 GMT -8
A very positive aspect with Atlas are the spare parts. If you are willing to paint your own, it is easy to pick up one of their models, buy an undec shell at very reasonable prices and have at it. And the new FMs that are arriving shortly will have the "new" motor as should all future releases. Of course that isn't a problem with the FMs, the last FM release was in 2008 which predates the torqueless motors that have slipped into production over the past few years.
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Post by dti406 on Oct 9, 2015 18:03:49 GMT -8
Guys, Atlas will not release the new pickup with frosted windshields or those awful looking tires and wheels. Their last releases have been the 1978 Ford Fairmont sedan, 1978 Ford Fairmont station wagon, and 1993 Ford Explorer. All were very well done in my opinion with separate wheels and tires, and clear lenses for the headlights and tail lights, AND clear windshields. Every separate piece adds to the cost of the model. Very few items are cheap in this hobby anymore, unless manufacturers go to different countries to build new products. Atlas prices have gone up substantially over the past 5 years but I do have a suggestion. I would love to see a real partnership between Atlas and Welly to make HO vehicles in diecast. Did you see the prices on the Welly vehicles? Much lower, and very decent quality for the price. Ford vehicles do not require the very stupid choke tube test, only GM. I heard from a very reliable source within the industry that we're probably only going to see Ford and European vehicles simply because it's easier. Even Chrysler has a substantially higher cost now for licensing, which kills then off for consideration in HO. Vito L. Japanese, Korean, or German cars? They make up a laege portion of the cars on USA highways. Not if you model the 60's and 70's! Rick J
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Post by BEDT26 on Oct 9, 2015 18:07:55 GMT -8
Only one thing that attracted me was this PC hopper. Attachments:
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Post by atsfan on Oct 9, 2015 18:13:20 GMT -8
Japanese, Korean, or German cars? They make up a laege portion of the cars on USA highways. Not if you model the 60's and 70's! Rick J The 70s? You never hear of the Rabbit, Corolla, Accord, or B210 which were all over the roads in America ? To name just a few.
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Post by curtmc on Oct 9, 2015 21:45:21 GMT -8
In the 1970s US automakers were pumping out single model production numbers in the millions, and no import company imported more than a million vehicles (total of all its models) until Toyota did in 1986 (which BTW was first year Toyota produced in US). Up until that time all of the most common cars running in US were US made Chevies, Fords, Buicks, Olds, Pontiacs, Cryslers, and AMC and in the 1970s you could spend an entire day in Michigan or Ohio without seeing an import.
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Post by valenciajim on Oct 9, 2015 22:55:12 GMT -8
Curt that was true in Michigan and Ohio and perhaps nationally, but not in California. California has always had different automotive tastes.
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Post by riogrande on Oct 10, 2015 3:01:57 GMT -8
Curt that was true in Michigan and Ohio and perhaps nationally, but not in California. California has always had different automotive tastes. That is very true Jim. From personal experience, I lived in California from 1966 to 1984. I remember vividly in Davis, where I lived from 1971 to 1984 there were lots of compact cars including Toyota's, Datsuns, Volkswagon Rabbits, Honda Civic's were all very popular. My parents bought second cars as we needed one - the first was a VW Squareback and the 2nd was a Honda-matic 2-speed Civic. Our pastor had 2 Volvo's. Yeah, for sure in my home town it seemed like foreign cars we equal to or out numbered domestic. Anyway, certainly for my autoracks, I need 70's era American made cars to populate them with. I imagine there WERE more of them on the rails than there were foreign cars.
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Post by dti406 on Oct 10, 2015 3:56:50 GMT -8
Only one thing that attracted me was this PC hopper. Please note that this car is not a PC Prototype, the PC inherited NYC 5700 CF ACF Covered Hoppers which were longer and lower than the Atlas 5701. Rick J
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Post by riogrande on Oct 10, 2015 4:51:07 GMT -8
Only one thing that attracted me was this PC hopper. Please note that this car is not a PC Prototype, the PC inherited NYC 5700 CF ACF Covered Hoppers which were longer and lower than the Atlas 5701. Rick J That is still legit. I have added some freight cars to my fleet that were inherited cars too - such as the Tangent X-58 box car in PC green. You just have to keep in mind the time period being represented, if that matters to you. I know SP weren't original owners of some flat cars offered in HO, but they did have some second hand cars in later years - same deal.
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Post by atsfan on Oct 10, 2015 6:13:13 GMT -8
In the 1970s US automakers were pumping out single model production numbers in the millions, and no import company imported more than a million vehicles (total of all its models) until Toyota did in 1986 (which BTW was first year Toyota produced in US). Up until that time all of the most common cars running in US were US made Chevies, Fords, Buicks, Olds, Pontiacs, Cryslers, and AMC and in the 1970s you could spend an entire day in Michigan or Ohio without seeing an import. Japanese cars were all over the USA in the 70s. VWs also. Maybe not in Detroit somif you model Detroit that is relevant. The rest of the country, yes.
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Post by valenciajim on Oct 10, 2015 9:50:29 GMT -8
Heck there are no foreign cars in Michigan today.
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