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Post by mlehman on Oct 13, 2015 19:27:47 GMT -8
Well, maybe. There would need to be about 2 dozen Jasons to provide equivalent coverage across all the various US railroads. There is something to be said about the relative simplicity of having just two large national railroads... True enough, but there is no reason something similar couldn't be done for a handful of the larger, more popular US railroads. Blackstone has the Rio Grande narrowgauge covered. They may even do a standard gauge steamer or two down the road. The rest of y'all will figure something out, I'm sure...
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Post by carrman on Oct 13, 2015 19:28:58 GMT -8
Sorry, it's Canadian steam. I don't care if it's ever been done in plastic or not. I'd rather have real E-units.
Dave
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Post by theengineshed on Oct 13, 2015 19:34:19 GMT -8
Agreed, it isn't as though the "south of the border" crowd didn't just get an FL9 or an FA2. That said, the "what's behind the ink blot" tease might have raised some false expectations...
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Post by jbilbrey on Oct 13, 2015 19:34:11 GMT -8
While I am not a Canadian model railroader by any stretch of the imagination, I'm glad to see a company realize that not all the late-steam locomotives were Challengers, Big Boys, and Cab Forwards and that other railroads besides PRR and NYC exist. I pulled out an old issue of "Trains" that had an article on the last days of CP steam which had photos of their 2-8-0's and light pacifics being used to pull some freights.
James Bilbrey LaVergne, TN
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Post by mlehman on Oct 13, 2015 19:36:11 GMT -8
Sorry, it's Canadian steam. I don't care if it's ever been done in plastic or not. I'd rather have real E-units. Dave Canadian steam seems to be rather obviously more relevant -- and lucrative -- to Rapido than E-units...considering there were a total of exactly 3 Canadian E-units.
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Post by carrman on Oct 13, 2015 20:21:15 GMT -8
Proofs in the pudding; we'll see how well these things sell. I wish them all the luck in the world, but I'm disappointed in this announcement. I don't like foreign railroads, and like steam even less. There's only one other type of railroading I like less, and at least they're not going there.
Dave
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Post by theengineshed on Oct 13, 2015 20:34:18 GMT -8
I don't like foreign railroads, and like steam even less. There's only one other type of railroading I like less, and at least they're not going there. Come on Dave, don't leave us hanging, what's worse than foreign and steam!?!
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Post by mlehman on Oct 13, 2015 21:38:44 GMT -8
Proofs in the pudding; we'll see how well these things sell. I wish them all the luck in the world, but I'm disappointed in this announcement. I don't like foreign railroads, and like steam even less. There's only one other type of railroading I like less, and at least they're not going there. Dave Dave, If you're Canadian, the CN and CP are not exactly foreign railroads. On the other hand, the CN is now the home town road here since they bought the ICG. This could be a bit confusing, I suppose, but I learned long ago that the world doesn't necessarily revolve around what I want. It doesn't hurt to consider the perspective of others. I've learned a lot this way when I think back on it, although at the time it might have been off-putting.
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Post by Judge Doom on Oct 13, 2015 23:59:28 GMT -8
Sorry, it's Canadian steam. I don't care if it's ever been done in plastic or not. I'd rather have real E-units. Dave Well boo-hoo then, I guess you'll have to dry those crocodile tears with a BLI E8 instruction manual in the meantime. Canadian steam seems to be rather obviously more relevant -- and lucrative -- to Rapido than E-units...considering there were a total of exactly 3 Canadian E-units. And those aren't really even Canadian - EMD made them in La Grange for CP before GMD London was building locos in Canada. They are identical to American production E8's, it was only later that CP added some nose grabs and ditch lights, but that hardly qualifies as being Canadianized. That was the exact reason they were passed over for preservation for something more Canadian, and scrapped - they were American.
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Post by riogrande on Oct 14, 2015 1:33:43 GMT -8
Proofs in the pudding; we'll see how well these things sell. I wish them all the luck in the world, but I'm disappointed in this announcement. I don't like foreign railroads, and like steam even less. There's only one other type of railroading I like less, and at least they're not going there. Dave Ouch. You make it sound like a bad thing. The amusing thing for me is sure, Canada is a "foreign" country but when you go there you don't feel like you are in a foreign country. Most every looks the same as the US including the trains! Now go to England, Germany etc. and there you have foreign looking everything. No need to rain on the parade - this may not be something you or I want but it's way cool and ground breaking never-the-less.
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Post by Christian on Oct 14, 2015 2:25:30 GMT -8
There's only one other type of railroading I like less, and at least they're not going there. Ah come on Dave. Isn't there a place in your inner most heart for Swiss narrow gauge steam rack locomotives?
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Post by fmilhaupt on Oct 14, 2015 2:50:30 GMT -8
{snip} ...I'm glad to see a company realize that not all the late-steam locomotives were Challengers, Big Boys, and Cab Forwards and that other railroads besides PRR and NYC exist.{snip} I hear ya on that! At one point in the lead-up to the announcement, I'd had a brief feeling of discomfort from a passing random thought that Jason could have lost his mind and was going to announce another Big Boy. With a couple of years of lead time like this, I could see myself coming up with a project that could use a CN ten-wheeler or Consolidation or two. Trevor Marshall's Port Rowan layout has been very appealing to me, lately.
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Post by markfj on Oct 14, 2015 3:28:40 GMT -8
Well, whether you’re happy with the announcement or not, it does put another nail in the coffin and help lay to rest the “hobby is dead/dying” argument. Here we have a rather large manufacture making a long-term commitment to what some are alluding to as an obscure interest – Canadian steam. So from the standpoint of growth and diversity of the hobby, this is a big deal.
And as far as the long lead time, well it's not like we don't know the level of detail and quality that Rapido strives for, it's something that doesn't just "happen" overnight.
Thanks Mark
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Post by riogrande on Oct 14, 2015 3:53:42 GMT -8
{snip} ...I'm glad to see a company realize that not all the late-steam locomotives were Challengers, Big Boys, and Cab Forwards and that other railroads besides PRR and NYC exist.{snip} TBH, the above are probably being produced because the odds of them selling well are, or have shown to be, extemely high so they have been guarantee'd sales performers. I would surely love to see something different too, such as a D&RGW Challenger =P. I hear ya on that! At one point in the lead-up to the announcement, I'd had a brief feeling of discomfort from a passing random thought that Jason could have lost his mind and was going to announce another Big Boy. Hey, we know that Jason is crazy, and a brick short of a stack, I mean just look at the guy - Star Trek junkie (but so am I) and a total nut case, but he isn't THAT far gone!
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Post by WP 257 on Oct 14, 2015 4:10:31 GMT -8
Well, maybe. There would need to be about 2 dozen Jasons to provide equivalent coverage across all the various US railroads. There is something to be said about the relative simplicity of having just two large national railroads... True enough, but there is no reason something similar couldn't be done for a handful of the larger, more popular US railroads. An awful lot of HO steam has already been done or is actually in the pipeline for a handful of the larger, "more popular" US railroads. Had Jason announced the B&O Q-4B that some are clamoring for, even more people would be complaining about how "disappointed" they are, because it wasn't their railroad. Jason's choice will sell better than a Q-4B. John
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Post by riogrande on Oct 14, 2015 4:25:04 GMT -8
Had Jason announced the B&O Q-4B that some are clamoring for, even more people would be complaining about how "disappointed" they are, because it wasn't their railroad. Jason's choice will sell better than a Q-4B. John Jason's choice is a very logical one for steam. First of all, Rapido the Canadian's model railroad company, so most should recognize that he is going to prioritize the "home team". Second, if steam is going to be done for Canada, he is going to choose their Challenger or Big Boy - i.e. their signature or most popular, well recognized steam engine. This an entire country understand, with a fair number of fans in the U.S. as well for the chosen steam project. Because I was born after steam had left mainline service on most US rails, I didn't even think of it as a choice for Rapido. It didn't help that the outline of the shadow on the "teaser" photo was rounded to mislead us into thinking it was some sort of diesel - ahem! Anyway, every time there is an announcement, someone or some group of people is going to be disappointed due to the diversity of railroad companies and equipment. So IMO, it serves no purpose to come into a topic and say so - and by doing so, dropping excriment in an otherwise happy announcement. I'm not into Canadian equipment per se, but I think it's a very cool announcement and can imagine how happy I would be if I were into Canadian steam. With the lead time to first production of 18 months, it gives folks a chance to save up too, which is even better as many can't suddenely pull $700 out of their back side at a moments notice. (the down side of instantly available upon announcment!)
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Post by mlehman on Oct 14, 2015 5:36:07 GMT -8
SNIP... I'm not into Canadian equipment per se, but I think it's a very cool announcement and can imagine how happy I would be if I were into Canadian steam. SNIP I mentioned Blackstone, because this announcement is as big a deal, maybe an even bigger deal, than Blackstone's was for HOn3 modelers. Blackstone singlehandedly breathed new life into what many regarded as a niche, but which was widely desired by thousands of modelers. I'm sure there were folks who wished they had announced another Big Boy...nah, just kidding on that. At a stroke Rapido has set thousands of Canadians, yes, and many "foreigners," too, to rethinking their modeling goals. Whole layouts have been sketched out in their minds, maybe even on paper or the screens of their computer, in the last 48 hours. I was lucky enough with Blackstone to already have a layout that would have eventually been filled out with brass when or as I could afford it, but Blackstone's initiative was like suddenly finding oneself in the Transporter Room on the Enterprise, getting ready to beam me down to Planet Narrowgauge...well, in 18 months or so. Canadian modelers are feeling the love like that right now. And frankly, like with Blackstone, Rapido's move is transformative for the hobby as Jim noted. It means not only lots of Rapido steamers in the future, but everything that goes with them. Obviously, more stuff for them to pull, which could come from Rapido, too, but everything else that goes into the layouts that will be built or rebuilt to give them a place to stretch their legs. Most of us will never buy one, but this is the sort of thing that puts a bunch of nails into the coffin of that old "the hobby is dying" canard. We all will benefit, directly or indirectly.
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Post by stevewagner on Oct 14, 2015 5:43:08 GMT -8
Am I correct in thinking that Canadian Pacific's lightweight "curved side" passenger cars ran behind CP's modern steam locos, including the Royal Hudsons? I've seen at least one photo of one coach of that type in a Delaware & Hudson daytime train. I'd welcome a Rapido HO model of that type of coach and baggage car.
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Post by eh49 on Oct 14, 2015 6:13:28 GMT -8
I'm not into steam or Canadian, so, I'm safe on this one.
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Post by atsfan on Oct 14, 2015 10:55:37 GMT -8
Steam has been gone for 60 years mostly. Two generations of people. Rapido is selling these to a limited audience. It will be interesting to see if in 2018 they are successfully making 2 a year still. I wonder if they have partnered with a company in Asia, as the work needed to make all of these is not trivial.
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Post by The Ferro Kid on Oct 14, 2015 11:13:39 GMT -8
There are references on Rapido's website to the fact that it has its own factory. Don't know if that means it does absolutely everything in-house or not.
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Post by jonklein611 on Oct 14, 2015 11:21:12 GMT -8
There are references on Rapido's website to the fact that it has its own factory. Don't know if that means it does absolutely everything in-house or not. Based on what I've seen following some of their projects for the UK (APT-E and Pendolino), they have a factory they work with, an engineering team, a few CAD / 3D scan guys, plus the crew in Canada.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2015 11:26:49 GMT -8
Steam has been gone for 60 years mostly. Two generations of people. Rapido is selling these to a limited audience. It will be interesting to see if in 2018 they are successfully making 2 a year still. I wonder if they have partnered with a company in Asia, as the work needed to make all of these is not trivial. I don't think that the audience is as limited as some people think. For whatever reason, steam attracts people even today, just look at the crowds whenever there is a steam run on the mainline. In terms of modeling, it has a lot of attractions. Trains are shorter in length, cars are shorter, there is a better variety of rolling stock. This means things are more visually interesting, and you can either fit more into the same space or fit something decent into a small space. The brilliance of what Rapido has done is that by announcing the multi-year, 12 model program they have said to people that these aren't a collectors item. You can go out, and given the variety of locomotives that will be available you can plan that layout with the knowledge that the assortment of locomotives you need to operate the trains you want will be available in x years. I can now spend 6 months or more researching areas of either CN or CP to find an area that interests me, figure out a workable idea in terms of equipment needed, and budget for the locomotives while picking up the other rolling stock that will be needed.
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Post by lajrmdlr on Oct 14, 2015 11:34:28 GMT -8
Steam has been gone for 60 years mostly. Two generations of people. Rapido is selling these to a limited audience. Yes the prototype steam era is long gone BUT there are so many layouts in the transition era. Besides there's still a few real steam locos running around on excursions. So no good reason modelers can't have one running on their modern era layout. Didn't one of those Canadian steamers made it down here to SoCal once?
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Post by calzephyr on Oct 14, 2015 14:31:26 GMT -8
Steam has been gone for 60 years mostly. Two generations of people. Rapido is selling these to a limited audience. Yes the prototype steam era is long gone BUT there are so many layouts in the transition era. Besides there's still a few real steam locos running around on excursions. So no good reason modelers can't have one running on their modern era layout. Didn't one of those Canadian steamers made it down here to SoCal once? BINGO!!!!! Yes, the Royal Hudson and the passenger train came to Los Angels back around 1975 to promote the new BC train service. It was a short tour, but we got to see it run and then, I visited the BC Royal Hudson several times starting in 1994. Nice loco!! I will probably get one just to see the quality when they arrive. Larry
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Post by mlehman on Oct 14, 2015 14:58:29 GMT -8
Yes the prototype steam era is long gone BUT there are so many layouts in the transition era. Besides there's still a few real steam locos running around on excursions. So no good reason modelers can't have one running on their modern era layout... True, but it helps to have an open mind to grok such things. Of course, statements like the one you responded to do demonstrate there is a certain amount of ignorance about the contemporary influence of steam. Never mind the tens of thousands of member of hundreds of RR historical societies (virtually all of which have some steam flowing in their veins), ops like C&TS and Cass, and BTW tens of thousands of non-contemporary model railroaders and nearly every narrowgauger. Yeah, there's a limited audience for steam alright.
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Oct 14, 2015 15:01:55 GMT -8
carrman, "Foreign" railroad is a relative term, considering that Rapido is a Canadian company. Thus their FL9 is a foreign model...for them. Also, plenty of Canadian steam ran right here in the US of A. CV, GT, GTW, DW&P were all CN subsidiaries, and CP ran across Maine at Mattawamkeag via trackage rights. So it's not like Canadian steam is some weirdo French high-pressure compound steam loco that never crossed the Atlantic. Americans saw Canadian steamers every day.
atsfan, Everything everyone sells in this hobby is to a "limited audience". FL9's have been a runaway success for Rapido...but they are still for a limited audience. Walther's annual passenger trains have each been sold to a limited audience. And so on.
Steam has a following that is profitable for manufacturers. Otherwise, why would BLI be constantly making steam locos? Why would Athearn make multiple runs of Big Boys, Challengers and FEF's? Why would Bachmann tool up an EM-1?
As for a "partner" for Rapido, all this steam they're doing is being made "in house". Remember that they "own" their own company in China. They don't need a partner.
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Post by mlehman on Oct 14, 2015 15:36:42 GMT -8
carrman, "Foreign" railroad is a relative term, considering that Rapido is a Canadian company. Thus their FL9 is a foreign model...for them. Also, plenty of Canadian steam ran right here in the US of A. CV, GT, GTW, DW&P were all CN subsidiaries, and CP ran across Maine at Mattawamkeag via trackage rights. So it's not like Canadian steam is some weirdo French high-pressure compound steam loco that never crossed the Atlantic. SNIP Paul, Thanks for the brief run-down on the major US lines that might have some Canadian steam content. Not sure how much does, given how unique steam often was even within lines that were financially linked. I'd like to hear more about the possibilities some of the announcements may hold for US modelers..or if if there's none. That'll sort things out for people and allow those who don't care to tune this sort of discussion out if it offends them. I have no immediate need for any of these locos, but know the reps and importance of a few. Would like to know more just because I'm curious. Seems a better use of this thread than questioning why Jason is making them. That in itself seems a singularly barren line of argument, given Jason and the rest at Rapido are some pretty savvy folks. Oh, and BTW, there might be just a little French involved, so brace yourselves if that shakes anyone up, because it is, after all, one of the languages of Canada. And my French is so bad, I cringe, but not because someone dares use it, but because of my own ignorance. But I'm trying...and Rapido is kind enough to post here in English for the unlearned like me.
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Post by atsfan on Oct 14, 2015 16:35:02 GMT -8
carrman, "Foreign" railroad is a relative term, considering that Rapido is a Canadian company. Thus their FL9 is a foreign model...for them. Also, plenty of Canadian steam ran right here in the US of A. CV, GT, GTW, DW&P were all CN subsidiaries, and CP ran across Maine at Mattawamkeag via trackage rights. So it's not like Canadian steam is some weirdo French high-pressure compound steam loco that never crossed the Atlantic. Americans saw Canadian steamers every day. atsfan, Everything everyone sells in this hobby is to a "limited audience". FL9's have been a runaway success for Rapido...but they are still for a limited audience. Walther's annual passenger trains have each been sold to a limited audience. And so on. Steam has a following that is profitable for manufacturers. Otherwise, why would BLI be constantly making steam locos? Why would Athearn make multiple runs of Big Boys, Challengers and FEF's? Why would Bachmann tool up an EM-1? As for a "partner" for Rapido, all this steam they're doing is being made "in house". Remember that they "own" their own company in China. They don't need a partner. I didnt know they own a factory in China. Is that announced somewhere ? I said it will be interesting to see if this is a success and in 2018 they make 2 new steam engines. It may happen. But it isnt certain just because they are announced. These,are also Canadian units which will be interesting to see the market size. As for FL9, they dont cost $500 plus. The market for expensive HO steam is smaller. But it all may come to pass which is fine with me.
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Post by jbilbrey on Oct 14, 2015 16:42:03 GMT -8
Steam has been gone for 60 years mostly. Two generations of people. Rapido is selling these to a limited audience. It will be interesting to see if in 2018 they are successfully making 2 a year still. I wonder if they have partnered with a company in Asia, as the work needed to make all of these is not trivial. I don't think that the audience is as limited as some people think. For whatever reason, steam attracts people even today, just look at the crowds whenever there is a steam run on the mainline. Agreed. While on the surface, this announcement appears to to have a limited audience. But, we also have to consider all the excursions ran out of the NE and even Virginia that used Canadian Steam. There is even one (a CN 4-6-2) that's on display at the TVRM. Also, I have heard that the Canadians are really spending on model railroading right now; that is partially why you see Bowser releasing Canadian-prototype models. James Bilbrey LaVergne, TN
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