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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2015 18:10:14 GMT -8
When will you acheive the NMRA MMR Master Model Railroader certificate POLL?
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Post by bdhicks on Nov 22, 2015 18:24:05 GMT -8
I'm not sure what to put. I am a very prototypical modeler, but I have long since decided that I am not willing to do much specifically in order to make MMR. If, in the future, I find myself in a situation where a small additional effort will get me a certificate, then sure I'll go for it, but as it is making MMR is not a priority.
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Post by peoriaman on Nov 22, 2015 18:28:42 GMT -8
I'm not sure I understand the question.
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Post by GP40P-2 on Nov 22, 2015 18:31:03 GMT -8
MMR has no relationship to being a Prototype modeler. What is the question here?
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Post by roadkill on Nov 22, 2015 18:32:58 GMT -8
I'm a strict prototype modeler and will never be an MMR as I am not an NMRA member, and have no plans on ever rejoining. And for what it's worth being a prototype modeler does not really have anything to do with earning an MMR except in the motive power, rolling stock, and structure catagories. One could scratchbuild, say, a Proto48 DM&IR 0-10-2 for their Locomotive certificate, an HO BART transit car for Rolling Stock, and a 1/29th scale SR&RL passenger station for structure. Seeing as the three have absolutely nothing to do with each other how can that modeler be considered a "prototype" modeler?
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Post by atsfan on Nov 22, 2015 18:34:52 GMT -8
This poll is confusing.
Huh?
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Post by fr8kar on Nov 22, 2015 18:49:06 GMT -8
Could there be an option added that a person is not interested in the MMR at all, or is the poll intended only for those who are interested in achieving the MMR?
I respect those who pursue the MMR, but personally I have no interest in achieving MMR status. Even if the label master was ever given to me, I would always consider myself a student: ever learning, ever improving, ever pursuing greater skill. MMR just seems like a resting place, a throne if you will, where one could stop and reflect on his accomplishments. I don't intend to stop.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2015 19:02:14 GMT -8
Could there be an option added that a person is not interested in the MMR at all, or is the poll intended only for those who are interested in achieving the MMR? I respect those who pursue the MMR, but personally I have no interest in achieving MMR status. Even if the label master was ever given to me, I would always consider myself a student: ever learning, ever improving, ever pursuing greater skill. MMR just seems like a resting place, a throne if you will, where one could stop and reflect on his accomplishments. I don't intend to stop. There is no need for an option for 'not interested', because MMR is something almost all model railroaders would like to acheive. It's no different from other polls that dont need a 'none of the above' option. Master Model Railroader is an advancement from prototype modeler, it is the highest level of modeling. |
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Post by emd16645 on Nov 22, 2015 19:08:14 GMT -8
There is no need for an option for 'not interested', because MMR is something almost all model railroaders would like to acheive. It's no different from other polls that dont need a 'none of the above' option. Master Model Railroader is an advancement from prototype modeler, it is the highest level of modeling. Can't say I've ever actually met a modeler who actually gave a crap about the MMR. Frankly that attitude reflects pretty poorly on the NMRA membership and those who actually care about the MMR. |
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Post by peoriaman on Nov 22, 2015 19:13:37 GMT -8
[quote author="@superchief" source="/post/72864/thread" timestamp="1448247734There is no need for an option for 'not interested', because MMR is something almost all model railroaders would like to acheive. Master Model Railroader is an advancement from prototype modeler, it is the highest level of modeling.[/quote]
Uh.... No.
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Nov 22, 2015 19:22:13 GMT -8
As an NMRA life member the people that I've known who achieved MMR status were hardly prototype modelers. They were free lancers who did just what was needed to get the certificate.
I strict prototype modeler doing super detailing, etc. may not meet the qualifications for rolling stock. You need to gain certificates in numerous areas like operations, scenery, association official, association officer, author, etc. There is a LOT that goes into becoming an MMR and the NMRA is no longer high on the priority list of many model railroaders.
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Post by carrman on Nov 22, 2015 19:28:45 GMT -8
Could there be an option added that a person is not interested in the MMR at all, or is the poll intended only for those who are interested in achieving the MMR? I respect those who pursue the MMR, but personally I have no interest in achieving MMR status. Even if the label master was ever given to me, I would always consider myself a student: ever learning, ever improving, ever pursuing greater skill. MMR just seems like a resting place, a throne if you will, where one could stop and reflect on his accomplishments. I don't intend to stop. There is no need for an option for 'not interested', because MMR is something almost all model railroaders would like to acheive. It's no different from other polls that dont need a 'none of the above' option. Master Model Railroader is an advancement from prototype modeler, it is the highest level of modeling. You're kidding right?  You realize there are those of us who couldn't care less about the NMRA right??? Dave |
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Post by fr8kar on Nov 22, 2015 19:29:07 GMT -8
There is no need for an option for 'not interested', because MMR is something almost all model railroaders would like to acheive. It's no different from other polls that dont need a 'none of the above' option. Master Model Railroader is an advancement from prototype modeler, it is the highest level of modeling. Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, then. |
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Post by mowingman on Nov 22, 2015 19:51:49 GMT -8
Need a 9th option: "I could care less, it does not interest me in the least".
This would be my choice if it were included.
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Post by chessie77 on Nov 22, 2015 19:55:58 GMT -8
I'm not interested in earning a MMR in the least. In fact, most of the people that I have met that have earned one are stuck up and never have anything good to say about someone else's work.
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Post by rockisland652 on Nov 22, 2015 20:08:49 GMT -8
I'm happy that I was able to spend a couple of productive hours working on the layout this past weekend.
Getting the spur and incline down to Alexander Lumber means more to me than anyone certifying my efforts.
My own satisfaction will do for now, thanks.
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Post by wp8thsub on Nov 22, 2015 20:24:35 GMT -8
There is no need for an option for 'not interested', because MMR is something almost all model railroaders would like to acheive. It's no different from other polls that dont need a 'none of the above' option. Master Model Railroader is an advancement from prototype modeler, it is the highest level of modeling. I've run into a few who have achieved "MMR" status who are not especially capable modelers. Look through the pages of the NMRA's magazine for photos of layouts belonging to the newly minted Master Modelers, and you'll see plenty of uninspiring work. The NMRA achievement program is based on jumping through hoops much more than it's about modeling skill (which detracts from the efforts of the real craftsmen). I do know a few hobbyists who find the program to be of value, but for most of the people with whom I've discussed it, interest in minimal or non-existent. If you like the AP, great, but you may be overestimating its appeal. |
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Post by curtmc on Nov 22, 2015 21:45:40 GMT -8
Add me to the list of those that don't care about ever getting a MMR... or dealing with the NMRA politics again...
I've known several great MMRs... But I also remember one that probably couldn't pour water out of a boot with the directions written upside down on the heel.
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Post by emdmrs1 on Nov 22, 2015 21:45:42 GMT -8
" because MMR is something almost all model railroaders would like to acheive."
No. I don't know of a single person who has any interest in this "award".
I know a few very old or now deceased model railroaders who were enthusiastic members of the NMRA which held the award and their skills were no better or worse than anyone else's. I believe much of their enjoyment in the hobby came from the social and political scene associated with the NMRA.
Personally I have no interest in anyone else judging my model work nor do I need to prove anything to anyone else nor will I jump through hoops for them.
Michael
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Post by mlehman on Nov 22, 2015 22:24:53 GMT -8
There is no need for an option for 'not interested', because MMR is something almost all model railroaders would like to acheive. It's no different from other polls that dont need a 'none of the above' option. Master Model Railroader is an advancement from prototype modeler, it is the highest level of modeling. Trying to push everyone's buttons? I'm both a longtime NMRA member and kinda fell into being the division super simply because I was in the right place when we needed one. I've heard of "politics" in the NMRA, but our tiny division doesn't have much time or interest in such things. We're actually interested in getting the AP program going here, but that's a few people out of a not much larger pool. How many aspire to MMR? I have no idea. Since we're a fraction of a not much larger total model railroading population around here, I feel safe in saying that even the idea that most NMRA members "would like to achieve" MMR is almost certainly wrong and the idea that "almost all model railroaders" want to be MMR to be, well someone's inventive stereotype of the NMRA I've been told I'd be most of the way there pretty easily if I ever got around to the paperwork. The diss has been getting in the way of such things, but hoping to do some catching up in that regard soon. I'm not particularly concerned about what I have done already counting. I'm sure some will, some won't. I'm not particularly concerned about when I might be MMR, should I live so long. My main interest is in becoming a better modeler. But I can also see how there's considerable stereotyping of the NMRA and its member in some of the comments. I'd say the MMR is something only tangentially related to what most call prototype modeling. There can be considerable overlap or just a little (think Venn diagrams) in the respective skill sets, it all depends on the individual how they approach that. I do plenty of prototype modeling, but I sure don't restrict myself thinking there's things I shouldn't do because it's beneath me to do either one. I do what I enjoy and don't limit myself to what someone else thinks I should be doing. I don't intend to approach the MMR any differently, although clearly there are set requirements, unlike prototype modeling where only you decide what's good enough (and it really still is about "good enough." Other people judge my work? Sure, because I know I'm too subjective to closely evaluate my own work according to a fixed set of rules. That's really all the MMR is. It may sound like hoop jumping, but what it's really about is demonstrating competence in a variety of different areas of model railroading. You don't need to be an expert at everything, although it doesn't hurt to have some skills to make things easier. As far as I can tell, this poll is an intentional misrepresentation of what the MMR is. Don't beat up on the NMRA over it (maybe that's its own thread?) because as far as I can tell it's based on mistaken assumptions about what the MMR program is about. |
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Post by WP 257 on Nov 22, 2015 22:27:38 GMT -8
My experiences with the NMRA have been...less than positive, and I've never been impressed by their publications.
I model what I like, for myself alone, and I don't need some other group judging or approving of my efforts in order for me to be happy with my layout.
My professional engineering design work gets enough critique from other design consultants (who feel compelled to justify their fees by making comments that are not necessarily value-added). I have no need to expose my modeling efforts to the "review" of other highly opinionated people.
John
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Post by Judge Doom on Nov 22, 2015 23:41:35 GMT -8
Never joining the NRMA, or getting any kind of MMR designation, and questioning why I would ever need to. From all the people that have posted about it, for the most part it seems like a stuffy ol' boys club who sit around judging each other's models and awarding medals (probably not true for every division). Fine for some, not for me.
I'll build what I want, for myself, how I want it, and run it to satisfy myself. Since there's so many informative online forms like this one and groups full of people with like modeling interests (both on forums, groups, and Facebook) I can't see why I'd ever need or want to join the NMRA or accumulate a bunch of merit badges, unless I wanted to be some elite model railroader or sumthin'.
And I can't say I know any modelers in the younger crowd (let's say, < 40) that care about the NMRA. They're all on social media like Facebook building or sharing models among themselves.
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Post by mlehman on Nov 23, 2015 1:47:59 GMT -8
Never joining the NRMA, or getting any kind of MMR designation, and questioning why I would ever need to. From all the people that have posted about it, for the most part it seems like a stuffy ol' boys club who sit around judging each other's models and awarding medals (probably not true for every division). Fine for some, not for me. Yeah, don't believe everything you read on the internet. Actually, here we spend most of our quality time operating. I'll build what I want, for myself, how I want it, and run it to satisfy myself. Since there's so many informative online forms like this one and groups full of people with like modeling interests (both on forums, groups, and Facebook) I can't see why I'd ever need or want to join the NMRA or accumulate a bunch of merit badges, unless I wanted to be some elite model railroader or sumthin'. Keep in mind that part of the reason you can "run it to satisfy" yourself is because of the NMRA's standards setting. Sure, there's plenty of ways to do this hobby now. You cannot, however, join the NMRA to earn a merit badge. You'd need to be a Boy Scout for that. NMRA members often supply the volunteers who help make the Railroad merit badge possible in each Boy Scout Council. You may be a little old for that merit badge anyway. But getting the merit badge is somewhat easier than a MMR. In the history of the organization, there have only been a little over 500 total to this point. Most NMRA members don't become MMRs, which is one reason I find the premises of this poll to be rather questionable. And I can't say I know any modelers in the younger crowd (let's say, < 40) that care about the NMRA. They're all on social media like Facebook building or sharing models among themselves. Just like older folks in the hobby, relatively few young folks become NMRA members. But we do have younger members...and MMR. The youngest to earn it was recently, a 13 yo, IIRC. I think both his parents are MMRs, so he had a pretty good support system. People don't only share models online. There's events like RPM. While these not NMRA events, like many events where NMRA members are involved, the insurance coverage that is typically required by venues for such gatherings is provided through the NMRA. In fact, like most in the hobby, you've already benefited from what the NMRA does - and don't even know it. Maybe because it cost you nothing. But it's stuff that's pretty important. Someone's gotta do it. Good thing the NMRA does. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2015 2:49:41 GMT -8
It would be a waste of time for me. Also it would be weird hanging a certificate on my wall that says I'm a master model railroader. It would feel cheesy and lame like those coffee cups you get that say "Worlds best ____" fill in the blank. Good luck to those who want it I guess.
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Post by peoriaman on Nov 23, 2015 4:23:41 GMT -8
...and I've never been impressed by their publications. All those years of "Thumbz" cartoons and jokes about outhouses aren't really your thing? |
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Post by carrman on Nov 23, 2015 6:49:22 GMT -8
In fact, like most in the hobby, you've already benefited from what the NMRA does - and don't even know it. Maybe because it cost you nothing. But it's stuff that's pretty important. Someone's gotta do it. Good thing the NMRA does. You mean, "good thing the NMRA DID it". Don't see anything they've really done much since the beginning of DCC. I remember when MRN was going to have all of us reviewers certify our review subjects to have earned the "NMRA football". I nearly quit the magazine right then and there, because that certification was pretty worthless when it came down to it. Dave |
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Post by WP 257 on Nov 23, 2015 9:18:21 GMT -8
Keep in mind that part of the reason you can "run it to satisfy" yourself is because of the NMRA's standards setting. Mike-- As someone who once tried large scale for a few years, I can state the NMRA was very heavy handed with the large scale "modeling" community, came across as not listening to all the various interested parties, and perhaps subsequently only added to whatever bickering had previously existed. They did us no favors but just insisted on making a "standard". Big deal--the manufacturers chose not to follow it completely, for a variety of reasons that made marketing sense at the time. Based on that experience, and the complaints I've heard from other large scalers, including some who were great modelers with lots of cash to throw at the hobby to get things "right", I have to say: Thanks but no thanks NMRA. Also, here in the east, my other experiences with the NMRA have conformed more to the stereotype voiced above of a bunch of guys criticizing other guys for this, that or the other thing. I don't see any value added in recent years at all. Whatever happened before is ancient history. Respectfully submitted-- John |
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Post by mlehman on Nov 23, 2015 9:55:57 GMT -8
You mean, "good thing the NMRA DID it". Don't see anything they've really done much since the beginning of DCC. I remember when MRN was going to have all of us reviewers certify our review subjects to have earned the "NMRA football". I nearly quit the magazine right then and there, because that certification was pretty worthless when it came down to it. Dave Well, there is LCC, which is maybe too new to catch your attention, but you'll be seeing more of it. Links to info on it are down about halfway in the first group of links here: www.nmra.org/index-nmra-standards-and-recommended-practicesStandards and Recommended Practices may seem static and "worthless" until you have the alternative, everyone going their own way. Even MTH found that out, eventually concluding that lack of DCC capability was hurting sales enough that they finally incorporated some compatibility with their proprietary DCS. Of course, that was only after claiming that the commons the NMRA established with the DCC standard was HIS property...another reminder that Standards also help keep costs under control for modelers by requiring a minimum amount of cross-compatibility between different mfg's products. |
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Post by mlehman on Nov 23, 2015 10:04:26 GMT -8
Keep in mind that part of the reason you can "run it to satisfy" yourself is because of the NMRA's standards setting. Mike-- As someone who once tried large scale for a few years, I can state the NMRA was very heavy handed with the large scale "modeling" community, came across as not listening to all the various interested parties, and perhaps subsequently only added to whatever bickering had previously existed. They did us no favors but just insisted on making a "standard". Big deal--the manufacturers chose not to follow it completely, for a variety of reasons that made marketing sense at the time. I'd say those sorts of comments were at least balanced out by those from frustrated modelers confused by the marketing chaos in large scale. The biggest problem there is that the NMRA waited to long before acting IMO. It was much like the MTH DCS issue. Some thought they could gain a marketing niche by making things just slightly enough differently to force customers to be loyal to their brands, but customers being customers simply were irritated by this lack of "interchange" so to speak. Based on that experience, and the complaints I've heard from other large scalers, including some who were great modelers with lots of cash to throw at the hobby to get things "right", I have to say: Thanks but no thanks NMRA. Also, here in the east, my other experiences with the NMRA have conformed more to the stereotype voiced above of a bunch of guys criticizing other guys for this, that or the other thing. I don't see any value added in recent years at all. Whatever happened before is ancient history. Respectfully submitted-- John Guess I've never found much worthwhile in stereotyping every one based on the actions of a few. Especially so if one jumps to conclusions about things like a "stereotype voiced above of a bunch of guys criticizing other guys for this, that or the other thing." We get some of that here, but I don't jump to the conclusion that's how everyone here is. In fact, there's more evidence that this is a small, but vocal minority, given most members seem to prefer to talk about model railroading, here or in the NMRA. |
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Post by WP 257 on Nov 23, 2015 14:07:09 GMT -8
And there's the issue of time. I don't have it to even begin to check out if what you are saying is true.
I have children at home for a few more years. There's things I want to do myself, but they will have to wait as I have to get the boys the things they need to be prepared for whatever it is they want to do (right now older one is getting pitching lessons from an ex-major league pitcher for $60 a lesson, plus the drive, plus the gas...all of which cuts into hobby time and budget). I'm fortunate that with the new job I can get my son the lessons he wants (coach is fantastic, nice guy).
John
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