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Post by Donnell Wells on Feb 6, 2016 11:45:23 GMT -8
On page 10 of the February 2016 Model Railroader is an Athearn ad for their latest release of the RTR GP35. The Great Northern paint looks outstanding. The color separation and lettering is crisp and sharp, BUT...that shell is...well, let's just say it's in serious need of a do-over. The dynamic brake hatch is horrible, and the cab is just crude at best. The shell truly lives up to the modeler-applied moniker "rough plastic parts".
Don't get me wrong. I really like Athearn. In fact, they are my favorite manufacturer. I've purchased several RTR GP35, but have made several significant improvements to them. I really hope that Athearn continues to introduce new tooling to replace the RPP tooling as they did with the SD40 and SD38.
Donnell
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Post by calzephyr on Feb 6, 2016 11:54:55 GMT -8
Donnell
I agree that Athearn is doing a good job of upgrading their previous models and they just might do a bunch of SD40-2's in the latest upgrade soon.
We can all hope.
Larry
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Post by Christian on Feb 6, 2016 11:56:32 GMT -8
Hasn't Walthers announced a phase II? Or teased one at Springfield last week?
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Post by Donnell Wells on Feb 6, 2016 12:08:39 GMT -8
Hello Christian,
Yes, Walthers announced a phase 2 GP35. Athearn's offering represents a phase 1 GP35. Athearn needs to scrap its current GP35. There's nothing worth saving with the Rail Power tooling. If I own Athearn, I would have a hard time putting my brand name on the ad that I saw!
Donnell
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Post by mlehman on Feb 6, 2016 12:09:25 GMT -8
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Post by Spikre on Feb 6, 2016 12:16:11 GMT -8
 well the Phase-2 GP35 was Kato's to Lose,and they sure did !! if the Proto GP35 PH-2 is as nice as the Proto GP30s all will be Fine !! the Athearn redos has run their Course !! but will they see things that way ? as long as Athearn junkies buy anything they make,am sure they will keep on making them. Spikre 
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2016 12:24:10 GMT -8
I agree with Donnell...I would love to see an Athearn GP35 in the Genesis line...or a re-tooled version of their GP35 in the RTR. With the cab, short hood, and battery box doors already there (SD38/39/40)...they could do a new hood and walkway...also giving us the GP28...which is basically a phase 1a GP35 without a turbo charger.
The fuel tank area would need revised...if the RTR Athearn doesn't have a plastic fuel tank yet...IMO...so they could offer different fuel tanks in this line.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2016 12:26:28 GMT -8
well the Phase-2 GP35 was Kato's to Lose,and they sure did !!
if the Proto GP35 PH-2 is as nice as the Proto GP30s all will
be Fine !!
the Athearn redos has run their Course !!
but will they see things that way ?
as long as Athearn junkies buy anything they make,am sure they
will keep on making them.
Spikre As long as Walthers gets the ride height correct...their recent releases all sit too tall in the saddle. But, on the bright side...they would be able to withstand high water in the midwest...for Spring.  |
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Post by atsfan on Feb 6, 2016 13:10:55 GMT -8
I agree with Donnell...I would love to see an Athearn GP35 in the Genesis line...or a re-tooled version of their GP35 in the RTR. With the cab, short hood, and battery box doors already there (SD38/39/40)...they could do a new hood and walkway...also giving us the GP28...which is basically a phase 1a GP35 without a turbo charger. The fuel tank area would need revised...if the RTR Athearn doesn't have a plastic fuel tank yet...IMO...so they could offer different fuel tanks in this line. Athearn has other engines in need of retooling first............ |
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Post by Donnell Wells on Feb 6, 2016 13:39:34 GMT -8
Athearn has other engines in need of retooling first............
Yeah...but no. This thread is not about other engines. It's specifically about the GP35. Good try though!
Donnell |
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Post by roadkill on Feb 6, 2016 13:44:20 GMT -8
Athearn has other engines in need of retooling first............ Yep, a re-do of the SD45 is long overdue, and rumor has it it's next for a re-do. The one nice thing about the former Rough Plastic Parts models is that the dies are aluminum... and have to be pretty much worn out. C'om on Athearn, bring us an all new RTR GP35, I need a bunch. |
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Post by riogrande on Feb 6, 2016 14:21:38 GMT -8
I've thought about more GP35's as I've continued to slip further into the past but I agree fully, I just don't see the point in buying an Athearn RailPower GP35 with all it's flaws. The GP30 and GP35 are both in need of a Genesis quality model big time.
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Post by SOMECALLMETIM on Feb 6, 2016 14:21:57 GMT -8
I have seen information from the Rock Island community who talked to the Walthers reps that the Walthers Proto GP35 will only be tooled for units that had dynamic brakes and a non-dynamic brake version will only be considered if sales are good. Can't believe they would take a step back to the non-modular shell parts of old. Can anyone else confirm this?
I thought the Athearn RTR GP35 long hood was too short or the doors are too short also?
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Post by peoriaman on Feb 6, 2016 14:58:45 GMT -8
Sure Athearn might have more than one engine that would benefit from a re-tooling but the GP35 is far and away #1 on that list.
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Post by markfj on Feb 6, 2016 15:11:42 GMT -8
Unloaded my Athearn GP35s and SD45s about a year ago now. The quality of the detailing on both RPP shells was just not up to my standards anymore. My justification for the move was simple economics; I could spend a lot of time and money upgrading the Athearn/RPP shell and “still” have the ok performance of the drive, or spend less time and money upgrading a Kato shell and have the excellent performance of their drive. I applied the same rational to the SD45, only there I replaced the Athearn RTR SD45s with the new Walthers Proto models –better details (and drive) at less cost than upgrading the Athearn/RPP shells.
I’m sure I’m not the only modeler who has taken this route, but I’m equally sure there are many who are very content with their Athearn RTR GP35s. However, I also believe the market could handle a high-end (genesis quality) GP35. For proof, just look at Rapido’s current offering of “very” high-end F40PH variants. Sure, we had a large collection of low to mid range models to choose from before the introduction of this model, but the market clearly was there for a Genesis quality (if not beyond Genesis quality) model. If it wasn’t, you can bet Rapido would have passed on making the model.
If Athearn follows the pattern of some of their past releases (i.e. offering an RTR version and than a Genesis version like with the GP38-2 and GP40-2), maybe we’ll see a Genesis quality GP35 in a couple years.
Thanks, Mark
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Post by mlehman on Feb 6, 2016 15:46:34 GMT -8
SNIP I’m equally sure there are many who are very content with their Athearn RTR GP35s. However, I also believe the market could handle a high-end (genesis quality) GP35. SNIP If it was NG power, it'd bother me more, but my two RTR 35s are paid for. One has even had its nose-job done, although I need to find better paint to match...in fact, I may already have it since I did this one, just haven't got back to it yet...  I probably wouldn't invest in an improved RTR, but a Genesis one in Rio Grande would be mighty tempting. Frankly, with the market being fairly well supplied since I bought mine in the first post-RPP run, it doesn't make sense to me that they'd do anything but a Genesis GP35. |
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Post by Christian on Feb 6, 2016 16:23:10 GMT -8
Sure Athearn might have more than one engine that would benefit from a re-tooling but the GP35 is far and away #1 on that list. With Kato, Bachmann, MTH and now Walthers making them I really doubt that an Athearn is likely once the existing tools disintegrate. |
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Post by roadkill on Feb 6, 2016 17:18:46 GMT -8
Sure Athearn might have more than one engine that would benefit from a re-tooling but the GP35 is far and away #1 on that list. With Kato, Bachmann, MTH and now Walthers making them I really doubt that an Athearn is likely once the existing tools disintegrate. Well, the Botchmann is garbage, the MTH not much better (c'om on, MTH, you're proven you can do a state-of-the-art diesel in HO, why did you screw this one up?), and the Kato comes and goes on the market and when it does it comes in very limited (and usually poorly done) paint schemes. As for the new Walthers model it has obvious detail differences from the others i.e. fuel tank and frame sill. The time is ripe for a retooled GP35, altho I'd rather see it as an RTR than a Genesis as I like to "roll my own" so to speak. Gathering the needed parts right now to build 3 PC SD40's from the new undec RTR models. |
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Post by Judge Doom on Feb 6, 2016 17:55:27 GMT -8
Knowing Athearn, they'll just keep pumping them out until the molds crap out, then tool up a new improved RTR unit...or maybe even look at doing a Genesis GP35 (!).
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Post by atsfan on Feb 6, 2016 18:18:09 GMT -8
Athearn has other engines in need of retooling first............
Yeah...but no. This thread is not about other engines. It's specifically about the GP35. Good try though!
DonnellA new Genesis Quality GP35 I would definitely enjoy also.  |
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Post by atsfan on Feb 6, 2016 18:19:20 GMT -8
With Kato, Bachmann, MTH and now Walthers making them I really doubt that an Athearn is likely once the existing tools disintegrate. Well, the Botchmann is garbage, the MTH not much better (c'om on, MTH, you're proven you can do a state-of-the-art diesel in HO, why did you screw this one up?), and the Kato comes and goes on the market and when it does it comes in very limited (and usually poorly done) paint schemes. As for the new Walthers model it has obvious detail differences from the others i.e. fuel tank and frame sill. The time is ripe for a retooled GP35, altho I'd rather see it as an RTR than a Genesis as I like to "roll my own" so to speak. Gathering the needed parts right now to build 3 PC SD40's from the new undec RTR models. The MTH version is probably due an award of most disappointing product of 2014. |
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Post by Donnell Wells on Feb 6, 2016 18:45:21 GMT -8
Sure Athearn might have more than one engine that would benefit from a re-tooling but the GP35 is far and away #1 on that list. With Kato, Bachmann, MTH and now Walthers making them I really doubt that an Athearn is likely once the existing tools disintegrate.
The only manufacturer I would consider a deterrent to an Athearn release is Kato. Their re release of the GP35 is reasonably priced at $145 decorated, or $135 undecorated. Right now, this would be the best choice to fill any additional GP35 needs.
I've been using the Kato d/b hatch as a replacement on my Athearn units. The cabs, noses, sub-bases, inertial hatches and filter intakes, exhaust stack, traction motor blower housing, and radiator fans and grilles were all replaced with Cannon parts. Honestly, I would have been better off scratch building the whole long hood from sheet styrene and inserting Cannon doors. The only part to be reused would be the walkway. However, the pilots are way too thick, as are the steps. The process of thinning the pilot would necessitate installing a Cannon small anticlimber and Details West scale buffer. This project is your basic slippery slope.
Donnell
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routerock
Junior Member
Rock Island in 1977
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Post by routerock on Feb 6, 2016 18:45:41 GMT -8
Hasn't Walthers announced a phase II? Or teased one at Springfield last week? But some one at Walthers had the great idea on making the mold with the D/B on the shell. sometimes I don't think that anyone at Walthers has any mode railroading exp.
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Post by mlehman on Feb 6, 2016 18:51:20 GMT -8
With Kato, Bachmann, MTH and now Walthers making them I really doubt that an Athearn is likely once the existing tools disintegrate. Well, the Botchmann is garbage, the MTH not much better (c'om on, MTH, you're proven you can do a state-of-the-art diesel in HO, why did you screw this one up?), and the Kato comes and goes on the market and when it does it comes in very limited (and usually poorly done) paint schemes. As for the new Walthers model it has obvious detail differences from the others i.e. fuel tank and frame sill. The time is ripe for a retooled GP35, altho I'd rather see it as an RTR than a Genesis as I like to "roll my own" so to speak. Gathering the needed parts right now to build 3 PC SD40's from the new undec RTR models. To me, all these fall short of the kind of unit that folks here are looking for to REPLACE the current offerings, which is how I see me getting into the market for one or two. An accurate AthearnRTR GP35 just wouldn't get much attention. A Genesis would sell big. Why make a decision to do this halfway, when that's basically the same issue the currents offerings have in common? |
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Post by nw611 on Feb 7, 2016 0:45:53 GMT -8
Hasn't Walthers announced a phase II? Or teased one at Springfield last week? But some one at Walthers had the great idea on making the mold with the D/B on the shell. sometimes I don't think that anyone at Walthers has any mode railroading exp.
According to the descriptions on Walthers website, there will be standard dynamic brakes on the Santa Fe, BN, EL, MILW and C&O models, while the SP units will have extended range d/b's. Does this mean that Walthers will make two different long hoods? In this case they can make a third long hood without dynamic brakes. Ciao. RG |
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Post by Donnell Wells on Feb 7, 2016 10:02:49 GMT -8
To me, all these fall short of the kind of unit that folks here are looking for to REPLACE the current offerings, which is how I see me getting into the market for one or two. An accurate Athearn RTR GP35 just wouldn't get much attention. A Genesis would sell big. Why make a decision to do this halfway, when that's basically the same issue the currents offerings have in common?
Hi Mike,
I have to disagree with you. I actually think an RTR GP35 done in the same fashion as the current SD40 and SD38 would be well received. Before the RPP version of each of these was canceled, the were offered at $99.98. The new models retail at $134.98. The accurate and sharp tooling is more than enough to justify the $35 increase, not to mention, all of the road-specific details that are included on, yes, an RTR unit.
From 2004 until now, the RTR GP35 has seen a $35 increase. However, there weren't really any improvements to justify the increase other than a snowplow and a beacon on certain units. A new RTR GP35 priced at $134.98, I believe, would go over real well with modelers. I also believe that a sound version at $184.98 would also be well received. GP35s are great locomotives for modelers with small layouts. They can handle mainline trains, road switchers, and yard switching duties. Their service life spans from the early-mid 1960s to the present day, which appeals to a very broad range of modelers.
I don't think you'd get much more out of a Genesis version other than a can motor, a few more details, and maybe some more sounds on the factory-installed decoder. You would pay anywhere from $180 to $200 for non-sound, and $270 to $300 for a sound version.
Donnell
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Post by grahamline on Feb 7, 2016 10:24:48 GMT -8
The recent RTR EMDs from Athearn have been a great start for detail-upgraded models for me. I have not experienced the operational issues that some people have publicized, and had I bought a Genesis-level model, would probably have needed to remove as many details as I added.
With a little bit of grinding, the current Athearn GP35 chassis is a great basis for a P2K GP30 shell.
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Post by mlehman on Feb 7, 2016 11:08:47 GMT -8
Hi Mike,
I have to disagree with you. I actually think an RTR GP35 done in the same fashion as the current SD40 and SD38 would be well received. Before the RPP version of each of these was canceled, the were offered at $99.98. The new models retail at $134.98. The accurate and sharp tooling is more than enough to justify the $35 increase, not to mention, all of the road-specific details that are included on, yes, an RTR unit.
From 2004 until now, the RTR GP35 has seen a $35 increase. However, there weren't really any improvements to justify the increase other than a snowplow and a beacon on certain units. A new RTR GP35 priced at $134.98, I believe, would go over real well with modelers. I also believe that a sound version at $184.98 would also be well received. SNIP
Donnell Donnell, At the same price as currently would be nice. I suspect it wouldn't be the same price, even if RTR, which is the rub here. Then there is the problem of marketing. With a price increase, people expect more than just correction of what was wrong previously. I can understand how the slice and dice crowd here could see the value in a fresh slate to work from, but most of the market simply wants a box they can open and - voila! - a new, improved loco. And they seem to be willing to pay for it. |
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Post by roadkill on Feb 7, 2016 13:59:31 GMT -8
I can understand how the slice and dice crowd here could see the value in a fresh slate to work from, but most of the market simply wants a box they can open and - voila! - a new, improved loco. And they seem to be willing to pay for it. That's just it, a new RTR GP35 WOULD be a new and improved loco! Have you compared the new RTR SD40 to the old one? Not. Even. Close. And not much of a price increase over the last run of the Rough Plastic Parts model. It's likely if Athearn tooled up a new RTR GP35 it wouldn't cost much more than the latest run of the old turd. A Genesis would cost considerably more, either with or without sound. Undecs are another issue, in the Genesis line one may not see undes for a long time if at all, whereas Athearn ran them in second run of the new SD40's. Heck, some Genesis models have never been run as undecs, the F's, FP7's, and the GP& come to mind. |
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Post by atsfan on Feb 7, 2016 14:17:38 GMT -8
Interesting dilemma,
New Genesis version.
Or new (and much better RTR version).
Both would sell well.
The big mystery is Kato.
Why dont they improve theirs to make it more sound ready
And rerelease more paint jobs and better paint jobs.
Their current Santa Fe release is questionable with bizarre handrails.
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