Stewart AS16 - What's the stats?

[ambluco]

I'm working on creating a spreadsheet with various HO models containing info, like if the model is based on a specific prototype or a generic engine and what the issues there are with it. I'm not referring to adding 3rd party details to get to a specific owner, mainly if you have to do surgery to fix things.

Starting with the Stewart Baldwin AS16, updated with details by Bowser.

Reading old threads there was talk that the hood was too wide but there was never any measurements provided.

So what issues does this model have that need to be fixed (example - cab profile wrong, hood too wide, hood too short)? Was it based on a specific railroad's model or is it a generic AS16? Does the fuel tank cover all the railroads?

Thanks.

[dti406]

As far as I know, the Bowser (Ex-Stewart) is pretty accurate as far as width, length, etc. are concerned. There is a problem with the height of the hood depending on the prototype. The early AS-16's had the hood height as represented by the Bowser model, the latter AS-16's had a much higher height on both the long and short hoods. Compare the picture of the Katy Unit with the MP Unit. baldwindiesels.railfan.net/guide/as-16/index.html

The major problem with the model is the fuel tank, the AS-16 and others did not have a fuel tank in between the trucks like the model, that was done to facilitate mounting the motor. The Baldwin fuel tank is under the cab and all that was between the trucks were the air tanks.

Rick Jesionowski

[edwardsutorik]

In the two sample pictures, there's a big square box thingy between the air tanks. On the MKT there even looks to be a fuel filler to the left of the air tank.

What's with that???


Ed

[ambluco]

I had never heard that about the fuel tank. So why do these have the square tank and the fuel fill? I can't find any other good shots of non PRSL units to see if it was RR-specific.

Fuel tank?

[loosecannon68]

Pretty sure the units with dynamic brakes in the short hood had the fuel tank moved from under the short hood to between the trucks.

That last photo is one of the later production models with the full height hoods so perhaps the later models all had the fuel tank there.

[dti406]

Look at the exploded view of the drawing, Item #22 - Fuel Tank under the cab! And the fuel fill is #23 at the end of the short hood.

www.shamokindivision.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/rdg-539-1500.jpg

Rick Jesionowski

[lvrr325]

There's like two phases of AS-16, an early and a late. That accounts for the hood height issue.

[sbntexas]

The MKT units had fuel tanks between the trucks. Road numbers 1571-1586. They also had full length handrails unlike the Stewart. The Katy also had two delivered, 1787-1788, with steam boilers in the short hood for passenger service. I do wish Bowser would run these again with the correct red as the red on the Stewart version was a very faded red/orange. They also went from that very faded orange red to the EMD rebuild shops where they were painted in the Barriger scheme with GP long hoods. References I have show they were never painted in the Deramus scheme.
SB

[edwardsutorik]

Aug 29, 2017 12:25:47 GMT -8 dti406 said:

Look at the exploded view of the drawing, Item #22 - Fuel Tank under the cab! And the fuel fill is #23 at the end of the short hood.

www.shamokindivision.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/rdg-539-1500.jpg

Rick Jesionowski

Neat photo!

You can even see where the fuel has leaked past the cleanout plugs.


But.


You say AS-16's didn't have fuel tanks between the trucks. Yet you haven't explained what those square boxy things are I asked about. I notice the MKT doesn't have the cleanout plugs. Hmmmmm. And DOES appear to have DB's. I see the MP does have the plugs. Still, it's got a "box". Why.

I do suspect that the basic AS-16 did only have the short hood fuel tank. But when a railroad want MORE, the fuel tank went between the trucks.


Ed

[sbntexas]

In fact in The Diesel Builders volume 3 you will find many pix of AS16 from several roads as well as AS616 with fuel tanks between the trucks. On page 181 is MKT 1578 with a fuel filler on side of the tank just under the frame the front long hood side. I'm thinking Ed is right it was up to the individual road what they wanted or needed. The Katy's diesel refueling stops were pretty far apart during the early day's of dieselisation so they needed all the capacity they could order.
SB

[riggelweg]

Here's some discussion of the differences of the Reading's Baldwin AS-16s.

www.shamokindivision.com/2010/04/05/reading-rs-2-baldwin-as-16-2/

Of the 43 it purchased, 18 had a fuel tank between the trucks. Four of them were passenger units. The water tank for the steam generator took the place of the fuel tank above the frame behind the cab. Thus, the fuel tank was put under the frame between the trucks. I think the other 14 were freight locomotives.

[ambluco]

To recap now, the model is of an early, low hood phase with the fuel tank underneath. Given that metal for the tank provides motor mounting, you may not be able to remove it to make a model that has no tank underneath.

[edwardsutorik]

Recap 2.0

In addition:

Bowser is showing a Reading AS-16 with a smaller low-mount fuel tank--sort of remindful of the fuel tank on the MP back in that nice Baldwin piece shown by Rick (second entry). I suspect what is showing in the model photo is the motor mount only, and that the fuel tank clips onto its bottom.

I had a quick look at the Reading prototype. It appears to have no lower fuel tank.

With all that, it appears that, on occasion, Baldwin offered at least two sizes of low-mount fuel tanks on the AS-16.

The photo on the Bowser site gives a hint at how much "fuel tank" a person has to deal with in making one of those way-kool "no fuel tank" Baldwins. Wish MY railroads had one/some, but the chances of that happening way out Northwest are about zero.



Ed

[dti406]

A thing about Baldwin, they produced their diesels just like steam engines, whatever the customer wanted, so no two were quite alike.

Of course the NKP re-engined theirs with two going to Alco and two to EMD to get the following:

condrenrails.com/Diesel-Locomotives/scans/NKP-320.jpg

Those are the ones I want! I have started on the Alco conversion, and it is sitting in a box with all the parts.

Rick Jesionowski

[lvrr325]

I had an idea to do one but stopped when I saw the low hood would have to be seriously reworked.

[roadkill]

Aug 31, 2017 8:43:11 GMT -8 dti406 said:

A thing about Baldwin, they produced their diesels just like steam engines, whatever the customer wanted, so no two were quite alike.

Of course the NKP re-engined theirs with two going to Alco and two to EMD to get the following:

condrenrails.com/Diesel-Locomotives/scans/NKP-320.jpg

Those are the ones I want! I have started on the Alco conversion, and it is sitting in a box with all the parts.

Rick Jesionowski

I've got a Union RR EMD re-engined AS616 kitbash that's been sitting around waiting for me to finish, too ! Someday I'll get a round tuit...

[slowfreight]

Aug 31, 2017 18:02:29 GMT -8 @sppepfe said:

Bowser's AS-616 (and AS-16) cab roof is too flat on top & the radius where it meets the cab side is too sharp. This is a major problem, not sure what a fix would entail. But it makes the model look very wrong. Compare photos of the models & prototypes.

www.bowser-trains.com/images/Loco/AS/23667.jpg

www.railpictures.net/photo/579419/

Their Baldwin switcher cab roofs are also off for the majority of prototypes. Most Baldwin switchers (the later ones- not sure of the change date) had a compound-curve roof. The model has the early simple curve. All the Bowser RS-12 cab roofs are wrong.

Look at the cab end windows. Even if the width of the hood is correct, the cab windows are a horridly narrow non-starter for me. For those who might attempt a Katy Baldwin, since the cab and short hood are the main Baldwin features remaining, a better cab is pretty important.

[Great-Northern-Willmar Div]

The cab windows do seem a might small.