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Post by eyenet on Nov 13, 2017 12:59:31 GMT -8
I am hoping that the experts on this forum can shed some light on an issue that I am having with a Proto 2000 locomotive.
I recently purchased a GM&O PA1 at a swap meet. Said unit refuses to move when power is applied. No sound or movement whatsoever from the motor.
I have power to the tracks but the only thing that responds to my Tech 4 throttle is the headlight, which comes on and continues to do its imitation mars light flash.
If I reverse the direction on the power pack, however, then this light function ceases completely.
The motor does not seem frozen as the flywheel will turn. I cannot see any wires unplugged on the circuit board at the rear of the locomotive. The wheels in the truck do not move when manipulated by hand.
Any suggestions as to what might be the issue/solution would be appreciated.
Thank you
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Post by 12bridge on Nov 13, 2017 13:05:08 GMT -8
I have had problems in the past, specifically with protos, where the older grease in the trucks will turn literally, solid.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Nov 13, 2017 13:11:56 GMT -8
If the flywheel can turn by hand, the motor armature should at least rock back and forth as you change polarity on the track (reverse/forward). If it DOES rock back and forth, I recommend checking for the old-grease, as mentioned above. And other drive problems.
If it doesn't, it's not getting power. The loco IS, so it's not making it to the motor. Or the motor is in deep doo. You'll have to figure out which one it is. A voltmeter can be handy, here. Or you can remove the motor and apply power directly to it.
Ed
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Post by riogrande on Nov 13, 2017 13:12:03 GMT -8
If the flywheel will turn, the gears in the trucks are turning too so probably not the grease freezing them. I'd check all electrical contacts and connections to see if any are loose. You may need to take see if you can get some leads to the power pack and see if you can apply power to the motor directly by passing everything else including the circuit board if there is one.
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Post by Artur on Nov 13, 2017 14:41:17 GMT -8
I bet one of the wires going to the motor is loose or broke off. Check the connections at the board and motor.
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Post by alcoc430 on Nov 13, 2017 16:20:15 GMT -8
The problem I had with protos is that the flywheel bearings are solidly attached to the worm gears. The grease or oil there litteraly glued them together. When I pulled them apart the bearing surfaces were stained which I could not seem to clean off although I didn't let them soak in degreaser or something.
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Post by el3672 on Nov 13, 2017 19:20:31 GMT -8
All my ex proto worm gear problems soaked them in Formula 88 cleaner & degreaser final wash then used excelle 730 general purpose lube oil
They all Run like a Swiss watch
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Post by lvrr325 on Nov 13, 2017 19:26:20 GMT -8
I bet one of the wires going to the motor is loose or broke off. Check the connections at the board and motor. I got one cheap a few years ago because it intermittently wouldn't run; the red motor lead had come loose. Fixed it and it was fine. But I also have a pair of GP30s that were NOS from 2002 or so and they had the grease issue. |
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Post by es80ac on Nov 13, 2017 19:40:42 GMT -8
I have a Proto 2K E8 that I bought new many years ago, recently finally taken out to run it. It only moves backward but not forward. I heard Life-Like had a batch of bad electronics that gotten into some early P2K units, perhaps that is the problem?
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Post by canrailfan on Nov 14, 2017 6:45:28 GMT -8
If I reverse the direction on the power pack, however, then this light function ceases completely. This would be consistent with directional lighting, the headlight goes off in reverse. The grease problem is well known but this sounds like one or more diodes on the circuit board have failed. Since the motor and flywheels turn and if you find no broken or disconnected wires the problem could be on the circuit board itself. (When you turn the motor manually look at the wheels carefully for any movement. Remember there is a 14:1 reduction (at least) in the gear train so the wheels won't turn very much per motor revolution.) To confirm there is a problem on the circuit board you can disconnect the motor leads from the circuit board (M+ and M-) and connect them directly to your DC throttle with clip leads. If the motor runs you'll know the problem is on the circuit board. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2017 8:35:34 GMT -8
I am hoping that the experts on this forum can shed some light on an issue that I am having with a Proto 2000 locomotive. I recently purchased a GM&O PA1 at a swap meet. Said unit refuses to move when power is applied. No sound or movement whatsoever from the motor. I have power to the tracks but the only thing that responds to my Tech 4 throttle is the headlight, which comes on and continues to do its imitation mars light flash. If I reverse the direction on the power pack, however, then this light function ceases completely. The motor does not seem frozen as the flywheel will turn. I cannot see any wires unplugged on the circuit board at the rear of the locomotive. The wheels in the truck do not move when manipulated by hand. Any suggestions as to what might be the issue/solution would be appreciated. Thank you I would guess, as other posters have, that this model has seized up gears...due to the thick brown grease that was commonly applied to their gearboxes back in the day. It needs to be disassembled and all the drive components need to be cleaned of this grease and re-lubed with labelle or other compatible grease/gear oil. Second, I would ensure the universals have not hollowed out on the motor shafts as a result of the increase in resistance on the drive line with the motor. If you need further assistance, please feel free to email me via private message on the forum. |
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Nov 14, 2017 20:51:21 GMT -8
Step one: Disconnect the worm gears to the trucks.
Step two: remove the wires from the motor to the circuit board
Step three: apply power from your power pack to the two wires. If the motor spins forward and backward, the problem lies in either the circuit board or the truck and worm gears. If the motor does not spin when power is applied to the two wires. apply power directly to the motor. If the motor spins you have a broken wire. Still need to clean up those trucks and get the peanut butter out.
The Proto PA had some runs in which the current draw was excessive, if I remember correctly.
I've never owned the PA model as my railroads of interest GN, NP, CB&Q, SP&S and Soo did not have PA's.
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Post by steveturner on Nov 15, 2017 12:21:22 GMT -8
Step one: Disconnect the worm gears to the trucks. Step two: remove the wires from the motor to the circuit board Step three: apply power from your power pack to the two wires. If the motor spins forward and backward, the problem lies in either the circuit board or the truck and worm gears. If the motor does not spin when power is applied to the two wires. apply power directly to the motor. If the motor spins you have a broken wire. Still need to clean up those trucks and get the peanut butter out. The Proto PA had some runs in which the current draw was excessive, if I remember correctly. I've never owned the PA model as my railroads of interest GN, NP, CB&Q, SP&S and Soo did not have PA's. Great points.Of course you could give the wheels a good clean first and the track it sits on. Research tells me some of these units were heavy amp draws.I assume the power supply is fine. I also assume this is out of the box DC with no DCC additions done to it by whoever as you purchased old stock.Dont know if these units suffered from gear cracks. Dirty wheels often the culprit, they look clean but are not. As metioned with the drive lines disengaged you will be able to see if the trucks roll smoothly. Maybe your power supply did something to the board. ASs metioned with drive separated from motor you can see how the power supply interacts with motor. For the fun of it if you go this far put meter on it and check amp draw. Steve |
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Post by riogrande on Nov 15, 2017 14:10:42 GMT -8
The Proto PA had some runs in which the current draw was excessive, if I remember correctly. Yes, the early runs, I think 1 and 2. I have a D&RGW 4-stripe Grande gold/silver PA which I think may be one of those. |
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Post by Mark R. on Nov 18, 2017 9:50:43 GMT -8
I've had a couple cases like this where everything "looks" good, but ended up being a broken wire IN the insulation - which you will never see. The easiest way to find these is to disconnect one end of a wire and do a resistance check with your meter one the length of wire.
Seeing as how the light works, I would assume the truck wires are ok. Start with the wires from the motor to the circuit board. If the wires are good, apply power directly to the motor to see if it actually runs.
Mark.
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Post by eyenet on Nov 30, 2017 12:22:30 GMT -8
Many thanks to all who took the time to reply to my inquiry.
Upon completely disassembly, the culprit turned out to be the red wire running between the motor and the truck.
Once re-attached, the PA ran fine.
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