modelling SOO & BN wide vision cabooses with the Atlas model

[sd40dash2]

Which BN and SOO wide vision cabooses most closely match the window arrangement of the Atlas model?

I do understand that both roads will require some basic detailing and modifications such as steps, underframes, ends and roof panels/smoke stack relocation. The main point of my question is to see if anyone here might know which prototype number series most closely match the side window profile of the model. Ideally I would like to cover over the Atlas windows with .005 styrene in order to preserve the existing paint job. I would like to avoid window relocation if possible, so I guess I am looking for numbers with plated over windows.

The intent is to replace the cupolas with Ryan's 3D parts and modify everything else on my own.

[fr8kar]

C&S 10637-10662, FW&D 165-188 and Burlington Northern 10500-10596, 10700-10799, 12000-12327, 12393. Also MILW 992300-992301 (to SOO 162-163). The main difference, other than the cupola end windows, is the blank roof panel nearest the cupola should also have the embossed diagonal panels. Also, you could cut in a fuel filler on the end wall using a similar part from a Cannon high short hood kit or just scratchbuild the part using some styrene strip and rod.

I did exactly what you are describing to a factory painted Atlas caboose:




Here's how I made the new embossed panels for the roof:

www.pbase.com/mecrharris/image/156401379

[edwardsutorik]

I can't help with the wide-vision. But the Atlas not-wide-vision are very close to BN 10226-10260 and 10261-10310.

I think the end platforms and ladders will need re-arranging. And the smokestack might be in the wrong place. And you can't use Ryan's cupola.


Ed

[fr8kar]

I did a few different body kits intended to be used with the Moloco cupolas on Atlas underframes:

GN X31-X50
GN X51-X65
GN X66-X95
NP 10100-10149

Of course I also did versions of GN and NP/SPS extended vision cabooses with cupolas. Then there are the Frisco cabooses.... Someday I'll build one of each!

[sd40dash2]

Thanks Ryan!

I am working with the Atlas 177 and 105xx numbers, so I am glad to see the paint can be preserved using your 177 method.

It doesn't look like the ex-MILW vans received white paint. Looks like the SOO vans have a little more work to do in terms of a different roof. Did any of their white vans have the Atlas diagonal roof panels and side window arrangement?

[packer]

Sept 30, 2018 17:38:17 GMT -8 fr8kar said:

C&S 10637-10662, FW&D 165-188 and Burlington Northern 10500-10596, 10700-10799, 12000-12327, 12393. Also MILW 992300-992301 (to SOO 162-163). The main difference, other than the cupola end windows, is the blank roof panel nearest the cupola should also have the embossed diagonal panels. Also, you could cut in a fuel filler on the end wall using a similar part from a Cannon high short hood kit or just scratchbuild the part using some styrene strip and rod.

I did exactly what you are describing to a factory painted Atlas caboose:




Here's how I made the new embossed panels for the roof:

www.pbase.com/mecrharris/image/156401379

What draft gear did you use, and any idea which cabeese used cushion underframes?

[fr8kar]

SOO 1-5 and 6-15 are kinda close, but the middle gasket windows are larger than the Atlas model's windows. On 1-5 the roof blank panel is in a different location and 6-15 have no blank roof panels. Also, the cupola is raised 7" higher than the Atlas model, so you'd need to do some work on the sides and cupola.

I made both the roof and cupola modifications on a Frisco caboose I built a few years ago from an Atlas EV model. Here are the relevant progress photos:

www.pbase.com/mecrharris/image/154396260
www.pbase.com/mecrharris/image/154608042
www.pbase.com/mecrharris/image/154608066
www.pbase.com/mecrharris/image/154631012
www.pbase.com/mecrharris/image/154631016
www.pbase.com/mecrharris/image/154631017

SOO 36-45 and 46-55 have the lower cupola like the Atlas model, but the side windows aren't even close. Depending on your era, you might be better off filling in the windows and applying "plates" over the areas the windows would have been.

Of course, SOO 56-145 had X-panel roofs, so they're going to be very difficult to build from the Atlas model. Once you start going through all these variations it's easy to see why I just made 3D printed kits of every one!

I don't know if I have any 2D drawings that would help. I think they were all deleted in the process of building the 3D models. I do have the caboose poster produced by the SOO historical society, though. It was a great resource for developing the 3D models. I scanned it in several pieces and pasted it together into an 11MB file. If that's something you are interested in, shoot me a message.

[fr8kar]

Sept 30, 2018 18:30:30 GMT -8 packer said:

What draft gear did you use, and any idea which cabeese used cushion underframes?

Good question, but I'm afraid I don't have the answer. It came in a jewel case and I got it at a train show. I'd just go with Moloco parts if I was doing it again, though.

As far as cushion underframes is concerned, nearly all the new BN and predecessor EV cabooses measure between 41'-7.25" and 41'-7.75" over the pulling faces (except the former Frisco cabooses built on boxcar frames in the 1700 series which were longer and infamously had no cushioning). The type of draft gear each was equipped with varied from order to order with some having "WM-CG-5", "Waugh WMG 4" and "Waugh Cushion". They all look to me like they're equipped with some kind of cushioning.

[sd40dash2]

Sept 30, 2018 18:30:30 GMT -8 packer said:

What draft gear did you use, and any idea which cabeese used cushion underframes?

Packer:

These photos show how I used Moloco 0414 and Plano 454 on a similar project last year, following numerous excellent suggestions received in this forum. I assume that all wide vision cabooses have cushion underframes.

[sd40dash2]

Are Microscale 87-842 for BN and 87-1215/HK C-100 for SOO the best decals to use?

[sd40dash2]

Ryan:

Dan from TSG Multimedia did a similar build in 2012/13. In his video he speaks of using strip styrene to raise the cupola by six scale inches. Did your model of 177 incorporate this height increase?

[fr8kar]

I did not change the position of the cupola on this model. The cabooses in the group FW&D 173-178 have cupolas which are 8'-4" from TOR to bottom of cupola, which is very close to the Atlas caboose. Some other classes of BN cabooses had the earlier higher cupola, but these were all predecessor road cabooses.

You can see this change in cupola placement in the former Frisco cabooses, some of which retained their Frisco paint for awhile. The group 1275-1284 (BN 11603-11612) had the cupola positioned higher, while 1285-1292 (BN 11613-11620) had the cupola positioned lower. The top of the white stripe on the Frisco cabooses is pinned to the bottom of the cupola. You can see how it crosses over the top of the side windows in the early group and through the top half of the windows in the later group.

I made this modification when I built a Frisco caboose. Here's what I did:

[sd40dash2]

Thank you Ryan, much appreciated as always.

[fr8kar]

Oct 17, 2018 16:09:45 GMT -8 fr8kar said:

The cabooses in the group FW&D 173-178 have cupolas which are 8'-4" from TOR to bottom of cupola, which is very close to the Atlas caboose. Some other classes of BN cabooses had the earlier higher cupola, but these were all predecessor road cabooses.

Looking back over this statement, I feel I should clarify it. Although FW&D and C&S were predecessor roads of BN, they were separate entities until 1981. Both C&S and FW&D continued to take delivery of cabooses after the 1970 BN merger decorated for BN but with C&S and FW&D initials. C&S cabooses were numbered in their eventual BN numbers, but FW&D cabooses retained the pre-merger numbering scheme. C&S and FW&D cabooses delivered following the BN merger were configured the same as BN cabooses in the 10500-10596 group delivered beginning in 1970.

BN cabooses continued to be delivered with running boards through the 1973 built group 10750-10799, along with C&S 10637-10646 built 1972 and FW&D 165-167 built 1971. BN, C&S and FW&D cabooses delivered after these groups did not have running boards.

The cupola and window configuration remained the same on BN, C&S and FW&D cabooses delivered from 1970 until June 1980, when the carbody side windows were eliminated. FW&D 189-198 is among the windowless cabooses, along with BN 12328-12392, 12394-12435. BN 12393 was a one caboose order from Morrison-Knudson built with carbody side windows and otherwise closely matching the 1970-1980 cabooses.

And just so nobody thinks I came up with all this on my own, the preceding information is from Robert C. Del Grosso's wonderful book, Burlington Northern Railroad Cabooses 1970-1995. For those interested in BN cabooses, including the pre-merger cabooses, it's an invaluable resource.

[sd40dash2]

Thanks so much for the added info, Ryan. I was not aware of that book. I'll pick up a copy in 2019.

Back to the cupola, I had been under the impression that cupolas with the square corner windows were all raised, but apparently not. These questions came about because I was looking at your shapeways part and wondering if its height had been adjusted like TSG Dan had done. You said that was not done to your 177. So if the Atlas cupola roof style is correct and the height is the same for 177 (I am also considering some 105xx), the major difference is in the corner windows.

And, those square window frames seem to be an ICC feature (rather than BN specific) as I've seen them on SOO, Santa Fe and many other ICC wide visions.

[fr8kar]

All the parts I drew for Shapeways came about because I kitbashed the Frisco caboose and wanted to do a Cotton Belt caboose next. I drew up the cupola as a direct replacement for the Atlas cupola, then realized I'd have to do the same modification to raise the cupola up. That led to cupola side inserts, then entirely new sides, both overhanging and non-overhanging roofs for C40-8 and C40-9 Cotton Belt cabooses, new ends and on and on. All the parts were intended to replace sections I could remove from the Atlas body, all while using the Atlas underframe, trucks, etc.

I realized after getting in pretty deep on this project that my Frisco caboose is wrong, since I didn't replace the overhanging roof with a non-overhanging version. I figured I would print a new correct version later on but I haven't gotten around to it yet. When I do it will be SLSF 1200, the one with Rockwell trucks.

Anyway, to answer your question... yes, the only difference between the Atlas cupola and the BN/SOO/NP/GN cupola I made is the square corner windows. The Santa Fe cabooses and the majority of the Soo cabooses with square corner windows (56-145) had X-panel roofs. Only Soo 46-55 had the diagonal panel roof and the square windows. All other dimensions should match the Atlas cupola since I drew the part as a direct replacement.

I would really love to nail down when the change occurred from high cupola to low cupola and determine whether this was a production change across the board, like the change from 81" to 88" nose on EMD locomotives. From what I can tell it occurred at the end of 1968 or the beginning of 1969. Here's what I've tracked down so far:

High cupola (approximately 8'-10" from TOR):

Soo 16-35, built 05/68

SLSF 1275-1284 (to BN 11603-11612), built 06/68

GN X116-X135 (to BN 10076-10095), built 06/68


Low cupola (approximately 8'-4" from TOR):

Soo 36-45, built ?/69 (year but no month provided by Soo Historical Society caboose poster)

SLSF 1285-1292 (to BN 11613-11620), built 7=8/69

GN X136-X155 (to BN 10056-10075), built 8=9/69

NP 10400-10424 (to BN 10031-10055), built 5=6/69

SPS 10025-10030 (to BN 10025-10030), built 7/69

[sd40dash2]

Awesome information as always, Ryan, thanks again.