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Post by markfj on Jul 26, 2019 13:12:44 GMT -8
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Post by fr8kar on Jul 26, 2019 18:28:40 GMT -8
I wonder what the soup was on that train. If you have anything moderately heavy it's stupid to put those centerbeams ahead of the heaviest part of the train, nevermind on the head end.
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Post by markfj on Jul 27, 2019 6:06:00 GMT -8
The train was 35A, a daily manifest run from Enola to Conway, PA. It was hauling all empty cars, which lead many on the live chat to speculate that having empty centerbeams near the power caused the derailment. I don’t know what the empty weight of a centerbeam car is to say an empty covered hopper or refrigerator car, so I can’t comment on the likelihood of one type of car derailing over another. If anything I would say the car’s length, distance between truck centers in particular, might play a bigger role in which type of car is more likely to derail on a curve. As of this morning, the derailed centerbeams have been cleared off the tracks (joining the collection of previously derailed centerbeams) and track equipment is working the rails. The derailment now has its own video: SECOND DERAILMENT IN 3 WEEKS! 7/26/2019 Horseshoe Curve, PANote the reaction of the elderly couple on the bench as they watch the derailment! Thanks, Mark Reading, PA |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jul 27, 2019 19:40:25 GMT -8
A professional railroader screwed up.
We can look at the guy who "built" the train. Someone "said": this is the train I want to go over the hill.
And we can look at the guy who handled the train. Thing is, I didn't see any weird and sudden movements in the video. Which gets me examining the person above.
Ed
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Post by NS4122 on Jul 28, 2019 15:31:11 GMT -8
As someone on the Virtual Railfan chat said: "Horseshoe Curve... where centerbeams go to die."
BTW the train was 15 loads and 207 empties with no rear end helpers.
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Post by valenciajim on Jul 28, 2019 16:06:09 GMT -8
I guess there are no protoypical equivalents to NMRA standards for weighing cars!  |
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Post by thunderhawk on Jul 28, 2019 21:59:43 GMT -8
We didn't have any restrictions on centerbeams on CP when I was running as they are not exceedingly light. I'm thinking the issue they are running into here is they are likely looking only at the coupler limit, meaning tonnage, when building these monster trains. 220+ cars, empty or not, will have a lot of drag when wrapped around the curves on a mountain grade.
The three AC's on the point appeared to be around 10MPH in run 8 so they were near 400K of pull on the head end, which is the coupler limit. I'm betting the tonnage was well below the limit however, and that's what they looked at building the train.
To add, the only cars I recall having a restriction on placement, other than short/long combos and scale cars, was the old Four Runners.
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Post by riogrande on Jul 29, 2019 2:40:34 GMT -8
So all the "expert" commenting on the YouTube video may be off base?
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Post by thunderhawk on Jul 29, 2019 12:08:01 GMT -8
I didn't read the comments as they are usually as accurate as portrayals of railroad operations in movies.
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Post by csx3305 on Jul 29, 2019 15:48:24 GMT -8
I just skimmed over the comments and saw practically nothing that could pass for expertise. Mostly people making corny jokes and people calling for someone at NS to be fired.
As for me, I’m just perplexed as to why all the hub-bub about a couple of centerbeams going into the ballast.
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Post by riogrande on Jul 29, 2019 15:51:50 GMT -8
That's why I put the word experts in quotes.
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Post by fr8kar on Jul 30, 2019 2:28:04 GMT -8
For trains with 5,500 trailing tons or more, BNSF prohibits cars weighing less than 45 tons from being placed in the first ten cars. This is why, though I can't imagine there would be much difference between the empty centerbeams being the first three or lines eleven through fourteen with 222 cars total, even if most of them were empties.
These cars are notorious for derailing if there are excessive draft or buff forces, regardless of how those forces were achieved. I've seen them derail when shoving a heavy track in the yard several times. They are much more stable when loaded, but empty we've learned not to take chances.
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Aug 5, 2019 0:46:19 GMT -8
For trains with 5,500 trailing tons or more, BNSF prohibits cars weighing less than 45 tons from being placed in the first ten cars. How much do the various empty cars weigh? |
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Post by bnsf971 on Aug 5, 2019 1:37:12 GMT -8
For trains with 5,500 trailing tons or more, BNSF prohibits cars weighing less than 45 tons from being placed in the first ten cars. How much do the various empty cars weigh? It depends on the car. The tare weight is listed on the car, usually as "LT Weight". |
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Post by fr8kar on Aug 6, 2019 21:58:34 GMT -8
For trains with 5,500 trailing tons or more, BNSF prohibits cars weighing less than 45 tons from being placed in the first ten cars. How much do the various empty cars weigh? Almost always less than 45 tons. When complying with this rule we just make sure there are ten loads up front, but occasionally a "heavy empty" shows up and we can use that. |
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Post by thunderhawk on Aug 12, 2019 2:50:42 GMT -8
For trains with 5,500 trailing tons or more, BNSF prohibits cars weighing less than 45 tons from being placed in the first ten cars. I recall several years ago BNSF had a pileup around East Winona that they blamed on the engineer. Excessive buff forces when he winged them into full dynos for some reason with a bunch of empties on the headend. Possibly where this rule came from as most are made after the fact. |
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