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Post by Artur on Sept 15, 2019 6:16:05 GMT -8
Hey guys, I'm programming a GP9RM and i'm confused on what type of prime mover its has. ESU recommends 16cyl 645C but I always thought it had the EMD 567. Also is the horn K3H or M3H?
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Post by 12bridge on Sept 15, 2019 7:05:44 GMT -8
A 645C is a 567 with 645 powerpacks.
Horn likely depends on the engine. I bet they had M3H's originally and were slowly changed to K3L's/K3H's overtime.
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Post by Judge Doom on Sept 15, 2019 20:50:22 GMT -8
More specifically: a 16-645C is a 567C engine block with 645 power assemblies installed. This modification was done during the rebuilt programs for CN's rebuilt first generation units (all the GP9RM's, the 1400/1600-series GMD-1's, 7100 & 7300-series Sweeps and SW1200RS units, and the VIA 6300's done by CN Point Ste. Charles shop for VIA). You'll notice many of those units are still going strong on CN and regionals/shortlines (including three well-maintained ex-VIA 6300's that Ontario Southland operates in regular freight service), as opposed to the pure 567-powered units that CN disposed of much earlier. CP's rebuilt program also saw 645 power assemblies used on their GP7/9 and SW rebuilds. CN Geeps were originally built with Nathan Airchime M3H's, which is what CN got on most of their first generation road power (I seem to recall the last CN units delivered with M3H's were their first two MLW C630M's, 2000 & 2001. K3L's later became the standard horn of choice on CN for new power and as replacements, but many M3H's survived on GP9 units even through the rebuild process. There's still a few of CN's early Geep rebuilds out there with M3H's, or at least there were as of a few years back. If you have a unit number you could probably verify it, but a K3L is probably the safest bet. A good source of M3H's is Rapido's "Rapido Bits" horn set, that has a few differently-oriented M3H's (like the M3HR2 - basically an M3H with the #2 bell reversed) as well as other horns including K3L's. |
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Post by Artur on Sept 16, 2019 3:27:11 GMT -8
Wow good to know, thanks for all the info guys.
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Post by canrailfan on Sept 16, 2019 11:41:57 GMT -8
More specifically: a 16-645C is a 567C engine block with 645 power assemblies installed. This modification was done during the rebuilt programs for CN's rebuilt first generation units (all the GP9RM's, the 1400/1600-series GMD-1's, 7100 & 7300-series Sweeps and SW1200RS units, and the VIA 6300's done by CN Point Ste. Charles shop for VIA). This raises the question of whether Rapido's prime mover sounds may be incorrect for some of their F-units, GMD-1s and SW1200RS models. Models with the pre-re-build paint schemes would have the original 567 power assemblies. Models with post-re-build schemes would have the 645 assemblies. There is a noticeable difference between the two sounds. Perhaps someone from Rapido could provide clarification on what sound sources were used. |
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Post by Judge Doom on Sept 16, 2019 23:18:53 GMT -8
More specifically: a 16-645C is a 567C engine block with 645 power assemblies installed. This modification was done during the rebuilt programs for CN's rebuilt first generation units (all the GP9RM's, the 1400/1600-series GMD-1's, 7100 & 7300-series Sweeps and SW1200RS units, and the VIA 6300's done by CN Point Ste. Charles shop for VIA). This raises the question of whether Rapido's prime mover sounds may be incorrect for some of their F-units, GMD-1s and SW1200RS models. Models with the pre-re-build paint schemes would have the original 567 power assemblies. Models with post-re-build schemes would have the 645 assemblies. There is a noticeable difference between the two sounds. Perhaps someone from Rapido could provide clarification on what sound sources were used. It depends on the models: Rapido hasn't done any rebuilt VIA F-units or derivatives of them yet, so their Conway Scenic (unrebuilt) FP9 recordings should be fine. The only "rebuilt" units I'm aware of Rapido doing were the CN 1400/1600-series GMD-1's, and for those they used a recording of the rebuilt SW1200RS at Exporail (CN 7300, repainted as 1382) that has the same rebuilt 12-645C engine and setup as the rebuilt GMD-1's, as well as straight stacks. They also recorded sounds of an unrebuilt GMD-1 with its 12-567C intact (the Alberta Prairie GMD-1 1118 they did a video on) for the unrebuilt GMD-1's, and presumably for use in the unrebuilt SW units. There's also ESU's library of engine and sound recordings they could turn to to fill in any gaps. Paint schemes also don't mean much, it's more the number series: there were a handful of non-rebuilt GMD-1's and SW1200RS units painted in the modern CN North American livery, but they didn't go through the rebuild program to become 1400/1600/7300's and didn't receive upgraded 645 power assemblies. It's also why those units were retired much earlier than the rebuilds (of course, engine changeouts might have occurred here and there, but that would be really digging to try to find out if, say, unrebuilt GMD-1 1126 received an engine changeout in 1995 that had 645 power assemblies. That kind of information is simply, by and large, impractical and unattainable for a model RR company to find out). As for CP units, Rapido only did the 8100's and none of the 1200-series rebuilds. All of these semantics are probably a moot point to most modelers due to the similarity in engine sounds between a normally aspirated 567C, "645C", and standard 645. Heck, that old high-nose GP9 or SW on a shortline they always see and think "mmmm 567 sound!" might have unknowingly been upgraded at some point with 645 power assemblies. |
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