piks
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Posts: 35
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Vets
Nov 24, 2012 17:32:09 GMT -8
Post by piks on Nov 24, 2012 17:32:09 GMT -8
Those Vets and spouses on that second flatbed were unprotected. As were the the crew of that freight train. Can only imagine the gut wrenching feeling of laying on the horn.....and watching the nanoseconds pass by....'til impact.
While the jury is out....I feel for that crew. Yet no Rail Forum speaks up?
I say ....people do not understand the power, and braking limitations, of a long freight train. If the signals were set at 30 seconds....well, that didn't work! Set 'um higher.
No train crew should have to deal with the horror that they did.
If this is not an appropriate topic for The Crew Lounge.....delete it.
I just think we train fans need a place to unload too.
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Vets
Nov 24, 2012 18:20:52 GMT -8
Post by bnsf971 on Nov 24, 2012 18:20:52 GMT -8
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Vets
Nov 25, 2012 1:42:41 GMT -8
Post by jamesbrodie67281 on Nov 25, 2012 1:42:41 GMT -8
May I ask please is there not a telephone for "long" "heavy""slow""restricted or unusual" road user vehicles drivers to use to inform the powers that be of an other than normal use of the railroad crossing? I can only quote English practice and yet unfortunately we here still get accidents happen. I am a veteran and a sometime wheelchair user myself but also have been in the sorry plight of having to 'lay on the horn' or whistle in my case and just before impact had to turn my head away or what I would have witnessed would be with me for the rest of my days. The knowledge and incidents never go away. When I was a loco inspector I have had to ride with drivers on a re run over a 'site' to get them back to main line working and to see their knuckles white holding the throttle or brake valve with empathy it used to affect me as well but for their sakes I had to hide my feelings. You could never disguise the weak at the knees feeling though. may those who were injured not suffer to much and a thought and prayer for the crews as well. James Brodie retired footplate railwayman.also (Lay Pastor but retired on heart health grounds) 09-44 Sunday 25th Nov 2012AD.
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Vets
Nov 25, 2012 7:37:23 GMT -8
Post by fr8kar on Nov 25, 2012 7:37:23 GMT -8
While the jury is out....I feel for that crew. Yet no Rail Forum speaks up? The jury may be out, but everything points to the truck driver being at fault. The crossing in question is a quiet zone, which means the bell only is to be sounded at the crossing, unless the crew determines there is some safety related reason to sound the horn. The crossing functioned as intended and the crew did sound the horn prior to the collision. The train was traveling below the posted speed and no Form A was in effect as far as the parade was concerned. UPRR was not notified there was a parade by the organizers. Aside from the tragic effects for those injured and killed, it is terrible the crew has to live with this loss of life and further injury to these veterans and their family members. These people were powerless to avoid experiencing injury and death and the crew was powerless to avoid the collision. Personally, I hate quiet zones. It's the same as buying a house at the end of a runway then complaining about the noise of airplanes taking off and landing. In almost every case the railroad was there first and the loud warning devices are there to protect the public and the train crew.
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Vets
Nov 25, 2012 8:39:40 GMT -8
Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Nov 25, 2012 8:39:40 GMT -8
What an effect on the whole community, the truck driver, the train crew, the first responders, the witnesses and the whole city.
Just so sad, a terrible accident.
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piks
New Member
Posts: 35
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Vets
Nov 25, 2012 12:59:24 GMT -8
Post by piks on Nov 25, 2012 12:59:24 GMT -8
Still learning my way around this board.....thanks for your replies bnsf971, jamesbrodie67281, and rch.
And hello Karl.....we meet again. ....."terrible accident" indeed.
Having trouble putting myself in that truck drivers boots. Why would he proceed? And why could he not back up?
Only the Universe knows.
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Vets
Nov 25, 2012 21:14:08 GMT -8
Post by fr8kar on Nov 25, 2012 21:14:08 GMT -8
The initial report I heard said the truck driver didn't want the parade to get separated by the train so he tried to make the crossing. When the truck ahead of his stopped, he was trapped on the crossing as the gates came down. As far as the question why could he not back up is concerned, I'm guessing that it happened quick enough that backing wasn't a possibility. Since the truck was in a parade, I presume there were vehicles behind this truck as well as ahead of it.
My friends and I have cussed and discussed this event and I come up with inexperience on the part of the truck driver. I used to work in the oilfield services industry, which is where this driver was employed, and it is among the most corrupt working environments I've been part of. Among the main requirements for employment is a tolerance for long hours, while experience is often not much of a concern. A checkered past is often overlooked. There is a culture of paying lip service to safety, or of making a show of safety when OSHA visits the job site, but looking the other way every other time. Asking for forgiveness after the fact instead of permission before is the norm. This culture encourages taking risks, often with disastrous consequences. Above all, this culture is the complete opposite of the railroad, where you are trained to be risk-averse.
There is no forgiveness on the railroad, so it's important not to do anything you cannot do safely. Unfortunately, this culture of safety is not portrayed in many of the stories covering this event or past events like it. Among the headlines I read included "speeding train collides with parade" and "train crashes into veterans parade float". Excessive speed is implicit in the first headline and fault on the part of the railroad is implicit in the second headline. It's subtle, but it's consistent and it exposes a public still ignorant of grade crossing safety. I know most of us get it, but how can the general public think trains can just stop if the crossing is fouled? I even read one comment on WSJ's story stating that PTC would automatically stop the train in a case like this, once it is implemented. Really?! My palm literally hit my face on that one.
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piks
New Member
Posts: 35
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Vets
Nov 26, 2012 8:57:16 GMT -8
Post by piks on Nov 26, 2012 8:57:16 GMT -8
rch,
Thanks for your reply, especially the insight into that particular industry.
Very sad outcome for all involved.
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piks
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Posts: 35
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Vets
Nov 29, 2012 4:14:35 GMT -8
Post by piks on Nov 29, 2012 4:14:35 GMT -8
Update......http://news.msn.com/us/veterans-sue-railroad-over-fatal-crash-in-texas
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Vets
Nov 29, 2012 4:41:43 GMT -8
Post by bnsf971 on Nov 29, 2012 4:41:43 GMT -8
Update......http://news.msn.com/us/veterans-sue-railroad-over-fatal-crash-in-texas And why is no one surprised?
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Vets
Nov 29, 2012 10:12:05 GMT -8
Post by fr8kar on Nov 29, 2012 10:12:05 GMT -8
At least one of the claims of the lawsuit is bogus. First, " ...the train did not brake or otherwise attempt to slow," contradicts initial findings of the investigation, that the train was placed in emergency.
As to the claim that timely audible warning was not provided, this crossing is a quiet zone. How should the crew have responded? Let's take a look at GCOR 5.8.4 Whistle Quiet Zone Within designated whistle quiet zones, whistle signal (7) must not be sounded approaching public crossings at grade except when: • Necessary to provide warning in an emergency. • Notified automatic warning devices are malfunctioning. • Notified automatic warning devices are out of service. or • The whistle quiet zone is not in effect during specified hours.
[Whistle signal (7) is the familiar two long, one short, one long signal]
For the record, the crew responded according to the rule.
I'm sorry for these folks, but this is not UPRR's fault in any way, shape or form. The negligent party is the one with shallower pockets.
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Vets
Nov 29, 2012 17:24:59 GMT -8
Post by rhpd42002 on Nov 29, 2012 17:24:59 GMT -8
For the record, the crew responded according to the rule. I'm sorry for these folks, but this is not UPRR's fault in any way, shape or form. The negligent party is the one with shallower pockets. And therein lies the crux of the problem.
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piks
New Member
Posts: 35
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Vets
Dec 2, 2012 14:45:33 GMT -8
Post by piks on Dec 2, 2012 14:45:33 GMT -8
Law suits or not, pray for that 50 year old truck driver. He has decades of hell in front of him. In a split second, he made a bad choice. Not enough room on the other side of the tracks = don't go. Train or no.
In the real end....it ain't about money. Four lives to the Universe......many lives upside down. It hurts.
Pray. Or be silent. (God's language is silence)
Namasta
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Vets
Dec 3, 2012 9:13:52 GMT -8
Post by bnsf971 on Dec 3, 2012 9:13:52 GMT -8
Law suits or not, pray for that 50 year old truck driver. He has decades of hell in front of him. In a split second, he made a bad choice. Not enough room on the other side of the tracks = don't go. Train or no. In the real end....it ain't about money. Four lives to the Universe......many lives upside down. It hurts. Pray. Or be silent. (God's language is silence) Namasta He is likely a local resident, so he will have to face the families of the people that were killed nearly every day for the rest of his life.
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