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Post by cemr5396 on Nov 28, 2023 17:47:40 GMT -8
Finally some one says the un-say-able. The 86s are great models, but unless you operate at a club or have a huge layout.... Oh, I've said it before. They're cool cars, of course, but for a lot of us the only reason to get one is for the novelty factor.
which is all you really need. Tangent sold a ridiculous number of 86 footers to people who have no business having them (for what they are modeling) but got them anyway because "they are cool". Now that pretty much all the impulse buyers have been satiated, it is a lot harder of a sell to move those cars now because the prototype modelers who actually need them also already have theirs. Scale Trains will be able to sell a few of their Thralls because they are a different prototype than the Tangent one, but Class One Models will have a hard time given they are the third one to the market and the smallest of all three companies. A lot of modelers still probably don't even know who they are. |
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Post by 690 on Nov 28, 2023 23:06:08 GMT -8
BN also had some of these big cars with the note "paper". I can't imagine what lightweight paper products would be used in car assembly. So I think these five cars were assigned to non-automotive plastics transport. Ed Tissue paper most likely, there have been other 86’ boxcars used for that in the past. |
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Nov 29, 2023 3:50:00 GMT -8
So ScaleTrains and ClassOne are both running Thrall auto parts cars. From what I recall, the ScaleTrains ATSF were not correct, at least for the road numbers they were doing. I guess the up-side is there are a few different road names being offered. I don't need many but wanted to mix a few Thralls in with the Tangent Greenvilles and Walthers Pullman Standard. You can't make blanket statement about "the ScaleTrains one" as there are two: a Rivet Counter car, and an Operator. Different versions -- not just less a running board. |
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Nov 29, 2023 3:51:27 GMT -8
Also, if we want to talk about things that aren't the GP40, start a new topic.
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Post by wp8thsub on Nov 29, 2023 18:51:54 GMT -8
Also, if we want to talk about things that aren't the GP40, start a new topic. The Class One product isn't a GP40 yet either, so there's that. I doubt it ever will be. |
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Post by hudsonyard on Nov 29, 2023 19:48:20 GMT -8
class one in a facebook post claims the GP-40 is in the "final tooling design" stage at the manufacturer, whatever that means. i'm betting we see a sample of some kind mid next year, first units arrive early 2026. or we never see it. i don't know, i like my altas units.
the video of someone taking a bat to one of the depressed flatcars is certainly interesting.
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Post by cprengineer on Nov 30, 2023 19:31:24 GMT -8
You got me all excited when I saw this revived thread. Sadly I can't find any evidence of the GP40's on their website either. It's still there. classonemodelworks.com/new/Okay, but there's no link on any page that I could find to get to .../new/. "Search by Category" under "Shop" does not offer a category for "new" or "locomotives".
So, how would I find the GP40 listing, without typing in the above address?
Are they really trying to sell these?
Years and years and years ago, GSB offered ads as they went along with the development of their SD40-2; some of you may remember them. The development went on for years, and the ads kept promising the ultimate model, and eventually, it came out...after Athearn's, which was, for its time, a pretty good model. I'm not suggesting we need a blow-by-blow account of the progress of the model, but keeping it "handy" on the website, along with a generalized progress report, might not be too much to ask in today's day and age.
Marty
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Post by riogrande on Dec 8, 2023 10:27:35 GMT -8
So for what it's worth, I did reach out to ClassOneModelWorks. I heard back yesterday, Dec 7 the following:
"They are being produced as we speak. We are planning to take preorders before the models arrive."
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Post by fishbelly on Dec 8, 2023 17:09:48 GMT -8
Pre-Orders sight unseen. Good plan.
Brian
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Post by prr 4467 on Dec 8, 2023 19:33:05 GMT -8
Oh, I've said it before. They're cool cars, of course, but for a lot of us the only reason to get one is for the novelty factor.
which is all you really need. Tangent sold a ridiculous number of 86 footers to people who have no business having them (for what they are modeling) but got them anyway because "they are cool". Now that pretty much all the impulse buyers have been satiated, it is a lot harder of a sell to move those cars now because the prototype modelers who actually need them also already have theirs. Scale Trains will be able to sell a few of their Thralls because they are a different prototype than the Tangent one, but Class One Models will have a hard time given they are the third one to the market and the smallest of all three companies. A lot of modelers still probably don't even know who they are. I must confess that having always wanted good 86' boxcars (I had steered away from almost all the ones in the past because they just weren't so good) I actually did buy a good number of the Tangent 86' boxcars, and my buddy was really bad, having acquired over 90 of them for himself. As the guys above have noted, they do present operational challenges. Having just one of them in most any train by itself with 50' cars is not that big a deal. The issues start to occur once you have multiple boxcars in a cut. Then any kink in the trackwork, be it horizontal or vertical may be found. Also, some of the cars perform better than others depending upon how far the coupler pocket actually sticks out from the end of the car, since there are different prototypes of the draft gear and underframes, and some have slightly more coupler swing than others--which when you are pushing the envelope of what is possible to run does make a difference. The Tangent 86' boxcars are awesome, but short tangents between reverse curves that might otherwise be easily negotiated by full length passenger cars may simply not work for consists of these boxcars. I had to relay sections of my layout and modify curvature to eliminate any short tangent sections between reverse curves. These cars like at least 9" between horizontal reverse curves--even if the curves are at nominal 30" radius. If the tangent length is less, cars in a consist will most likely derail. They also do not like superelevation transitions that are too fast/too short--and that can make them derail as well even if the curvature is otherwise ok and there are no kinks. Ultimately, I opted not to keep any of them. My son has one Tangent UP 1969 bright yellow version remaining, and I have two blue N&W hamburger herald cars ordered from Class One through Overland Hobbies because that paint scheme is just too cool for us to pass up. Otherwise we've kinda gravitated toward coal and ore traffic without that many big cars over 60'. |
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Post by unittrain on Dec 8, 2023 19:54:04 GMT -8
So it should be that autoracks and 89' flats would be just as problematic, I got lots of the 86' boxcars hopefully they will run when my layout is finally operational I'm going for minimum curves of 50" radius max is 72".
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Post by prr 4467 on Dec 8, 2023 22:33:17 GMT -8
You would think so, but on my layout the big autoracks (from everybody) and most 89' flats run just fine. Some of them have coupler pocket designs that allow for greater than standard coupler swing ie the box itself can swing.
So it is the 86' boxcars, that have fixed coupler pockets with limited lateral coupler swing, that have problems.
50" radius is way better than 30" radius, so you shouldn't have problems--except these big boxcars are also quite heavy, so multiple strong units will be necessary for long cuts of them. The typical Atlas diesel is only going to pull 8 or 9 of the big boxcars. ScaleTrains units definitely pull better than that.
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Post by unittrain on Dec 9, 2023 4:56:19 GMT -8
Yeah hopefully they run ok I really bought way too many I like these boxcars I probably have 30 tangents and a dozen walthers plus I think 9 or 10 thralls on pre order between ST and Classone.
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Post by riogrande on Dec 9, 2023 9:23:57 GMT -8
As the guys above have noted, they do present operational challenges. Having just one of them in most any train by itself with 50' cars is not that big a deal. The issues start to occur once you have multiple boxcars in a cut. Then any kink in the trackwork, be it horizontal or vertical may be found. Also, some of the cars perform better than others depending upon how far the coupler pocket actually sticks out from the end of the car, since there are different prototypes of the draft gear and underframes, and some have slightly more coupler swing than others--which when you are pushing the envelope of what is possible to run does make a difference. The Tangent 86' boxcars are awesome, but short tangents between reverse curves that might otherwise be easily negotiated by full length passenger cars may simply not work for consists of these boxcars. I had to relay sections of my layout and modify curvature to eliminate any short tangent sections between reverse curves. These cars like at least 9" between horizontal reverse curves--even if the curves are at nominal 30" radius. If the tangent length is less, cars in a consist will most likely derail. They also do not like super-elevation transitions that are too fast/too short--and that can make them derail as well even if the curvature is otherwise ok and there are no kinks. I have an S-curve on my mainline I was concerned about due to all the discussion about how picky the Tangent 86' Greenville auto parts cars are with regard to S-curves. The curves were not tight, but a 36"R curve going through a short straight section into a 33"R reverse curve via a #8 Peco turnout, and there are easements on both curves. I contemplated using a #6 Peco to get the straight section longer but it would have been a sharper angle out of the straight into the inside passing 33"R siding. I have some 86' Tangent auto parts cars and have heard they require some fairly generous minimums so I coupled of them and ran them through the S curve and there were no issues, no derailments. So I may be near the limits but it worked, maybe because the #8 turnout gives a gentle easing into the 33"R reverse curve and the other curve is 36"R, so it's fairly gentle the changes going into the reverse curve. Here it is, and due to the easements, the short "straight" section is very short and it includes the tail of the turnout before the points. But probably due to the easements and fairly generous curves that the 86' Tangent auto parts cars run smoothly thru. And if when I get to running strings of 86' auto parts cars and have issues, I can route the train through the reverse curve through the straight part of the #8 Peco turnout into the 35.5"R outer curve where the straight section in between is significantly longer than the 86' auto parts car wheel base. But I'm hoping any train can take either direction without issue.  |
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Post by prr 4467 on Dec 9, 2023 12:09:43 GMT -8
Jim--
Your radii are bigger, and it looks like the effective length of tangent exceeds the ones I had to remove, which were on the order of 5" to 6".
You are designing a nicer layout than what I think many folks like myself are able to have, where radii are often below 30" or even below 26".
I got the big box car consists operating ok on my layout, but then my son, who wants to run supertrains of hoppers just wasn't using them. It was only 2 spots on the layout that really had to be fixed, but it did take a couple iterations to get it right.
I was responding in agreement with the folks above who were, I believe correctly, saying that many people have bought the big boxcars who really won't be able to use them routinely on their layouts. When I wanted to sell them, they did sell because of the cool factor, but my local store did say that most of their customers wouldn't be able to use them, only a few could. So they didn't fly out the door.
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Post by ambluco on Dec 9, 2023 12:50:12 GMT -8
Are there GP40s pulling all these 86' boxcars being discussed?
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Post by fishbelly on Dec 9, 2023 14:11:46 GMT -8
Maybe the GP40 is really code for 86' Boxcar. I did not get that memo.
Brian
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Post by hudsonyard on Dec 9, 2023 15:05:39 GMT -8
I've only ever seen one photo of an autorack on the LHR and it was during the waning days of the port morris connection with erie lackawanna via andover junction, car was likely moving to or from one of the large auto plants served by the EL in northern NJ. I'd assume that autoparts cars moved via the same service route, never say never but i think it's unlikely an 86' auto box ever made it onto LHR rails.
Only GP40s that would ever operate over my territory would be on PC detour trains that happened fairly common in my era, I've got the latest Atlas releases to cover that.
I don't trust class one after the snafu with the depressed center flats.
Alright think we are all caught up here.
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Post by unittrain on Dec 9, 2023 15:14:02 GMT -8
I got a B&O and two each of NYC and PC Atlas units and they are pretty good. I would like to support Classone as I could use more GP40s I might preorder a Conrail and B&O but really wish some photos of the models would appear don't know why none have emerged yet.
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Post by riogrande on Jul 12, 2024 10:55:33 GMT -8
Been nearly 2 years since ClassOne announced the GP40. Anyone heard anything? Seems we are getting to vaporware territory.
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Jul 12, 2024 10:59:24 GMT -8
I asked them 4 times on YouTube, once a month, starting 6 months ago. 3 months ago they replied, "Our team is at the factory now overseeing their production to bring you the best GP40 model to date!" Meanwhile, the page that used to be on their website announcing it now 404s. classonemodelworks.com/new/ |
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Post by cemr5396 on Jul 12, 2024 11:48:47 GMT -8
Is there any proof the model actually exists? Samples? Anything?
considering there are two established companies that actually have experience building HO locomotives that have competing models that are certainly going to beat them to the punch, C1 would probably be wise to shelve this one and dedicate their efforts somewhere else.
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Post by riogrande on Jul 12, 2024 12:46:59 GMT -8
"Our team is at the factory now overseeing their production to bring you the best GP40 model to date!"
With a spotty track record like warped flatcars and issues with the 86' Thrall auto parts boxcars, it's all just hype. I'd rather see the Tangent approach where the models speak for themselves rather than an announcement and no follow up and promises of the best model ever. The model RR crowed is tough crowd and is tire of the little boy who cried wolf. I would like to see C1 produce an excellent GP40, but many of us remain doubting Thomas's until we really see the product.
I wonder if all the delays are because the model so far hasn't measured up and has to keep going back for more revisions.
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Post by oakway on Jul 12, 2024 12:51:44 GMT -8
Unfortunately, C1 was not expecting two other manufacturers to announce the same model at basically the same time.
Tough break for them if they did have money invested in tooling, but I doubt it. Probably just vapor ware at that early stage, and might have been tipped off by one of the others before they were in too deep. Hopefully they will come up with something to sell, soon.
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Post by riogrande on Jul 12, 2024 13:03:07 GMT -8
C1 announced an early GP40. Not the the same as what ScaleTrains has announced. Not sure about the Rapido. I need both phases and paint jobs.
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Post by 12bridge on Jul 12, 2024 14:42:03 GMT -8
I asked them 4 times on YouTube, once a month, starting 6 months ago. 3 months ago they replied, "Our team is at the factory now overseeing their production to bring you the best GP40 model to date!" Meanwhile, the page that used to be on their website announcing it now 404s. classonemodelworks.com/new/Exactly what they said 1 year ago next week when I asked them at the St. Louis RPM. |
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Post by riogrande on Jul 12, 2024 15:13:23 GMT -8
As he said, they are going to say Shhhhh until the model is released. Hmmm...
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Post by snootie3257 on Jul 12, 2024 15:41:48 GMT -8
As he said, they are going to say Shhhhh until the model is released. Hmmm... Upon which they’re going to add IT? 😁 Hopefully not but… Steve |
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Post by middledivision on Jul 15, 2024 7:31:34 GMT -8
The way they're blowing out loads, flat and well cars tells me they are in a holding pattern on the Geep 40. The fact that Rapido and ST have announced theirs doesn't help, either.
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Post by riogrande on Jul 15, 2024 8:57:19 GMT -8
The way they're blowing out loads, flat and well cars tells me they are in a holding pattern on the Geep 40. The fact that Rapido and ST have announced theirs doesn't help, either. Perhaps you are right. West of Grand Junction during my modeling period, GP40's were prime motive power so I could use early GP40's with the small herald, as well as the late version offered by ScaleTrains and coming late this year. Presently Rapido isn't offering any GP40's in Rio Grande. |
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