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Post by sourwyfan on Oct 16, 2022 20:06:38 GMT -8
The E unit pictures just make me more worried. +2 That porthole-size issue just jumps out and claws at my eyes!
Yep guys, That porthole issue is a real screw up that Rapido doesn't want to hear about or address, mostly because it would be a real money eater to fix!  Guess it'll be China's fault again? This observation was bought up in August when preproduction release pics started showing up from being displayed at shows. When I saw some of the blatant issues I immediately sent urgent emails to Rapido CS and Jason himself (2X), Even referencing this thread (See atlasrescueforum.proboards.com/thread/10021/feedback-on-rapidos-southern-railway) and was told Bill was in charge of the project and they had forwarded my emails to him and they assured me he would be in touch soon. (He was on vacation) Guess what no return email, not even kiss my ass!  I sure hope someone can come up with a retrofit hinged porthole insert to cover that monstrosity, I guarantee Rapido won't.  This was supposed to the the definitive E-8 release, I think they tooted their horn to early but only time will tell. The guys without portholes are going to be very, very lucky and dodge a major appearance bullet!! BR, Rahl |
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Post by ambluco on Oct 17, 2022 4:32:02 GMT -8
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Post by Baikal on Oct 17, 2022 8:38:36 GMT -8
The Rapido model caboose resembles the prototype from a distance, but the gross railings and other oversized features more than offset any goodness. Trailing their poorly rendered E8s, the caboose will make bookends of a sort.
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Post by sd80mac on Oct 17, 2022 12:12:34 GMT -8
I really wish Rapido would re-run their Super Continental passenger cars. I was on a lengthy model railroading hiatus back when they were originally released and missed them. Picked up some from old stock in hobby stores but there are some significant gaps I'd like to fill. Vaguely recall some discussion about issues with those old cars but can't recall much. Maybe mediocre rolling qualities or something? They might have to re-tool the cars but hey, if they can do Turbo 2.0 you'd think they might revisit these old products too. The original Super Continental line passenger cars roll horribly. Think the Walthers Amfleets from the 90s. |
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Post by elfan on Oct 17, 2022 14:14:05 GMT -8
The E unit pictures just make me more worried. +2
That porthole-size issue just jumps out and claws at my eyes!
Uh Huh As well as the end railings/ladders/grab irons on the caboose. Fingers crossed they will be addressed favorably. Tom |
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Post by cera2254 on Oct 17, 2022 15:10:25 GMT -8
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Post by carrman on Oct 17, 2022 15:24:15 GMT -8
The E unit pictures just make me more worried. +2 That porthole-size issue just jumps out and claws at my eyes!
Thats why any I buy will be a version that had the portholes removed. Dave |
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ictom
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Post by ictom on Oct 18, 2022 8:39:30 GMT -8
I really wish Rapido would re-run their Super Continental passenger cars. I was on a lengthy model railroading hiatus back when they were originally released and missed them. Picked up some from old stock in hobby stores but there are some significant gaps I'd like to fill. Vaguely recall some discussion about issues with those old cars but can't recall much. Maybe mediocre rolling qualities or something? They might have to re-tool the cars but hey, if they can do Turbo 2.0 you'd think they might revisit these old products too. Agreed about the Super Continental - I think the IC ones are the best ones available, outside of brass. I too, got back into the hobby a couple of years ago and missed all their releases. I've been picking them up here and there, mostly on ebay. I thought maybe their E8 runs would be prelude to more Super Continental passenger cars, but maybe not. I don't have enough of a layout yet to do extensive testing, but most comments about problems I've read have to do with what troubles most Rapido products: their great underbody-detailing gets in the way of free truck movement. The same thing occurs with the Walthers cars (more with skirting and step rails), but their trucks aren't very free rolling anyway. Plus, the resale on Walthers cars are way beyond reality. I see several listed for $150 or even $199. Yeah, no one pays that, but if you move the bar up that high, it lifts all the other prices that people really can afford. So they end up costing as much as the Rapidos in the mainstream, but without lighting, etc. |
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Post by riogrande on Oct 18, 2022 8:43:13 GMT -8
I was thinking about maybe one of the Amtrak E8A's which appear to have the removed portholes, but was reminded by a friend that what I really need are the DB equipped ex UP E9A's. So, looks like nothing for me here. If Rapido does E9's, I may be on the hook then.
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Post by lvrr325 on Oct 18, 2022 9:16:53 GMT -8
I really wish Rapido would re-run their Super Continental passenger cars. I was on a lengthy model railroading hiatus back when they were originally released and missed them. Picked up some from old stock in hobby stores but there are some significant gaps I'd like to fill. Vaguely recall some discussion about issues with those old cars but can't recall much. Maybe mediocre rolling qualities or something? They might have to re-tool the cars but hey, if they can do Turbo 2.0 you'd think they might revisit these old products too. Agreed about the Super Continental - I think the IC ones are the best ones available, outside of brass. I too, got back into the hobby a couple of years ago and missed all their releases. I've been picking them up here and there, mostly on ebay. I thought maybe their E8 runs would be prelude to more Super Continental passenger cars, but maybe not. I don't have enough of a layout yet to do extensive testing, but most comments about problems I've read have to do with what troubles most Rapido products: their great underbody-detailing gets in the way of free truck movement. The same thing occurs with the Walthers cars (more with skirting and step rails), but their trucks aren't very free rolling anyway. Plus, the resale on Walthers cars are way beyond reality. I see several listed for $150 or even $199. Yeah, no one pays that, but if you move the bar up that high, it lifts all the other prices that people really can afford. So they end up costing as much as the Rapidos in the mainstream, but without lighting, etc. This reminds me, I once saw at a show someone had solved this problem on some older Walthers UP passenger cars, and even had them so they'd do 18" radius curves via truck mounted couplers. It looked like they'd run the car through a band saw just below the frame level and cleaned them off all the way past the trucks, then put some Athearn passenger car trucks on them. It was one of those WTF things you only see at a train show. As for the resale, that's also a spotty thing, I see stuff going for stupid money on eBay that you can probably buy at any show for under $20. I got a couple of Walthers streamlined coaches (no boxes) $5 each from a club dumping somebody's estate Sunday. I don't need CP cars but at $5 I should be able to make $15 or $20 down the road somewhere on them. I've had or seen some of the Super Continental cars cheap too, I know I picked up one or two for stupid cheap, $20-ish, carried them like a year before getting $50-ish for them. I don't even remember if I sold them online or in person. |
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Post by atsf_4 on Oct 18, 2022 13:18:20 GMT -8
Crap, crap, crap. I forgot just how bad the portholes were. Thanks for reminding me!
The Amtrak special edition version of course looks like a very nice model. Saw it in person at Timonium.
I am trying to cancel my pre-order for one Heartland/Rapido Erie unit and will replace it with an Amtrak special edition. My dealer says one distributor still has them.
Fortunately, the Heartland/Rapido late PRR E units do not have the portholes, so yes, Ed, I got lucky there.
I tried those Rapido Super Continental passenger cars and was not so impressed.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 18, 2022 14:15:19 GMT -8
Some of us lucky; some of us ain't. This is likely to be my Rapido E unit purchase, a portholeless one:  Also, the giant plastic grab irons are body color, and less likely to be visually irritating. Ed |
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Post by bnsf971 on Oct 18, 2022 14:27:51 GMT -8
Apparently Walthers gets their plating done elsewhere, in a country that is not that concerned about such problems. Elbonia, perhaps. Ed Is that right or left Elbonia? Enquiring minds want to know! |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 18, 2022 15:42:42 GMT -8
Apparently Walthers gets their plating done elsewhere, in a country that is not that concerned about such problems. Elbonia, perhaps. Ed Is that right or left Elbonia? Enquiring minds want to know! I don't know, but Walthers certainly knows the location of their plating factory. Might be worth an e-mail or phone call to customer service. Seems to me it would depend on whether the electrons they use in the process are left-spinning or right-spinning. I think I've heard that the left-spinning give a better surface finish, and that could indicate where they placed the factory. This assumes, of course, that left Elbonia is populated with left-spinning electrons; which makes perfect sense to me. The left hand rule applies here:  For a left-hand spinning electron (see above), you point your thumb (red) UP. Your middle finger (green) then points in the direction of the left-hand spin for the electron. As an added bonus, your index finger (blue) points to the refrigerator with beer in it. Ed |
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Post by riogrande on Oct 18, 2022 15:52:56 GMT -8
And don't forget the Coriolis effect.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 18, 2022 16:04:25 GMT -8
And don't forget the Coriolis effect. Absolutely. But since both Elbonia (left AND right) and the United States are in the Northern Hemisphere, the effect of the (Coriolis) effect cancels out. Now, if you go to the SOUTHERN hemisphere, everything goes to hell. Plating falls off, or it turns a glowing copper color (which, if it were prototypical, would be kinda cool). Sometimes it "self-corrugates", which is just what it sounds like. I think this might explain Rapido's unwillingness to do plating, since it would limit sales in Australia and South Africa, both also Commonwealth Nations. Ed |
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ictom
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Post by ictom on Oct 21, 2022 4:38:13 GMT -8
+2 That porthole-size issue just jumps out and claws at my eyes!
Yep guys, That porthole issue is a real screw up that Rapido doesn't want to hear about or address, mostly because it would be a real money eater to fix! Guess it'll be China's fault again? This observation was bought up in August when preproduction release pics started showing up from being displayed at shows. When I saw some of the blatant issues I immediately sent urgent emails to Rapido CS and Jason himself (2X), Even referencing this thread (See atlasrescueforum.proboards.com/thread/10021/feedback-on-rapidos-southern-railway) and was told Bill was in charge of the project and they had forwarded my emails to him and they assured me he would be in touch soon. (He was on vacation) Guess what no return email, not even kiss my ass! I sure hope someone can come up with a retrofit hinged porthole insert to cover that monstrosity, I guarantee Rapido won't. This was supposed to the the definitive E-8 release, I think they tooted their horn to early but only time will tell. The guys without portholes are going to be very, very lucky and dodge a major appearance bullet!! BR, Rahl This is sad, for sure, but as the next poster in your referenced thread said, "... if that is a production body shell, you might be stuck with the number boards and portholes..." It's a shame because as I noted in that thread, it appeared to be a simple CAD error in placing the hinged porthole frame over the existing hinge-less porthole frame. In wireframe and 3D shading, it just looked like a circular line border for the glass underneath the hinged frame, but was in fact, the original frame. This meant the hinged frame was superimposed on top of the original frame, but it never looked like that in the CAD model. By August, those were painted, first production copies. The injection molds were most likely cut long before that. From what I understand, the injection molds are the most expensive items to go into manufacturing a model locomotive. It was too late/monumentally expensive to change at that point. These things have already been delayed two years and while personally disappointed, I can understand the business decision that must've been made. I'm starting to accept the porthole appearance anyway and would rather have a porthole version than not. I usually prefer "as delivered" rather than ratty, aged, and full of countless retrofits from railroad use over decades. From all indications and comments about the Amtrak special release, the E8s are fine models. Scale Sound Systems has already released speakers for them, so the E8s could be a great addition to anyone's collection. |
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Post by bridge2nowhere on Oct 21, 2022 5:11:22 GMT -8
Frankly, the porthole issue doesn't bug me as bad in the pictures as I had feared, but there are other problems that worry me, like the anticlimber "porch" on the UP units.
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Post by riogrande on Oct 21, 2022 5:14:44 GMT -8
My main interest was the late era E units used by the UP and Amtrak, but it turns out those were E9's so I'll have to wait and see if Rapido ever does E9's.
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Post by atsf_4 on Oct 21, 2022 5:24:43 GMT -8
I am very fortunate. Heartland graciously allowed my dealer to cancel the Erie unit and replace it with the Amtrak special edition unit. Additionally, by having ordered the very late version PRR Heartland/Rapido unit, I will end up with 3 no porthole versions, so at least on that issue, I dodged the bullet and can be happy.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 21, 2022 6:52:50 GMT -8
Since we're referencing old threads:  "...the E8s are fine models." Yup. Clearly. Ed |
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Post by atsf_4 on Oct 21, 2022 7:46:30 GMT -8
In coin collecting, Fine, or F-12, is not a very good condition at all. So in that sense, Rapido produces "fine" models. They get some things right, and a few things somewhere along the way end up horribly wrong. I think that pretty much sums up most of Rapido's projects. Do they allow only so much in the budget, and then when that point is reached "just get it done"? That is what I suspect.
Now, if one wants/needs E units and F units for one's layout, there are only so many choices (which is why I started that poll). You can do brass, if you are rich or can otherwise steal/find the money. You can do BLI, Proto 2000, old whatever (AHM/Rivarossi)...they all have their issues.
So yeah, the Amtrak limited edition which I have seen up close and personal looks to be a pretty decent effort (without the offending portholes), and just maybe it's a little better than Walthers Proto or BLI E-8/9 in some details and features. That could reasonably be considered to be a "fine" model.
That does not make it outstanding or even merely excellent.
In 20/20 hindsight I've gotten rid of most Rapido products I ever purchased for a multitude of reasons. My 16 year old son just saw a Conrail blue unit sitting at the Enola loco facility for the first time he could EVER remember, and he loved the blue (at least as opposed to the depressing sea of black that we have now) and started asking all kinds of questions about Conrail and the breakup. The Rapido B36-7 CR unit didn't ever sell on Ebay, and I guess I gotta keep it for him. Other than that diesel, I still have one NKP PA-1 (it's kinda meh, not significantly better than Walthers Proto), and two PC X-72's that have been re-trucked and re-couplered with Kadee (because the tab inside the knuckle on Rapido couplers is just bloody awful and they do not work well at all).
If they don't do a better job on their E-8's (than on prior efforts), specifically Amtrak units not out yet or the late PRR ones, I swear I will not give them any more second chances and will not pre-order or purchase anything else ever again.
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Post by Baikal on Oct 21, 2022 9:33:24 GMT -8
Yep guys, That porthole issue is a real screw up that Rapido doesn't want to hear about or address, mostly because it would be a real money eater to fix! Guess it'll be China's fault again? This observation was bought up in August when preproduction release pics started showing up from being displayed at shows. When I saw some of the blatant issues I immediately sent urgent emails to Rapido CS and Jason himself (2X), Even referencing this thread (See atlasrescueforum.proboards.com/thread/10021/feedback-on-rapidos-southern-railway) and was told Bill was in charge of the project and they had forwarded my emails to him and they assured me he would be in touch soon. (He was on vacation) Guess what no return email, not even kiss my ass! I sure hope someone can come up with a retrofit hinged porthole insert to cover that monstrosity, I guarantee Rapido won't. This was supposed to the the definitive E-8 release, I think they tooted their horn to early but only time will tell. The guys without portholes are going to be very, very lucky and dodge a major appearance bullet!! BR, Rahl This is sad, for sure, but as the next poster in your referenced thread said, "... if that is a production body shell, you might be stuck with the number boards and portholes..." It's a shame because as I noted in that thread, it appeared to be a simple CAD error in placing the hinged porthole frame over the existing hinge-less porthole frame. In wireframe and 3D shading, it just looked like a circular line border for the glass underneath the hinged frame, but was in fact, the original frame. This meant the hinged frame was superimposed on top of the original frame, but it never looked like that in the CAD model. By August, those were painted, first production copies. The injection molds were most likely cut long before that. From what I understand, the injection molds are the most expensive items to go into manufacturing a model locomotive. It was too late/monumentally expensive to change at that point. These things have already been delayed two years and while personally disappointed, I can understand the business decision that must've been made. I'm starting to accept the porthole appearance anyway and would rather have a porthole version than not. I usually prefer "as delivered" rather than ratty, aged, and full of countless retrofits from railroad use over decades. From all indications and comments about the Amtrak special release, the E8s are fine models. Scale Sound Systems has already released speakers for them, so the E8s could be a great addition to anyone's collection.
People have repeatedly brought up this "simple CAD error in placing the hinged porthole frame over the existing hinge-less porthole frame" excuse.
It does not explain why the Rapido porthole is a smaller diameter and coarse/rough.
Bottom line- no one but Rapido knows why the Es are faulty. But the core True Believers will continue to try to shift blame everywhere except Rapido.
Rapido will never take responsibility. It's not their way.
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Post by Baikal on Oct 21, 2022 9:40:25 GMT -8
My main interest was the late era E units used by the UP and Amtrak, but it turns out those were E9's so I'll have to wait and see if Rapido ever does E9's.
E9s are externally the same as E8s except the thinner metal headlight gasket and some (depends) porthole gaskets/diameters. Which Rapido has bungled anyway.
UP E8As & Bs went to Amtrak:
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Post by Baikal on Oct 21, 2022 9:47:21 GMT -8
In coin collecting, Fine, or F-12, is not a very good condition at all. So in that sense, Rapido produces "fine" models. They get some things right, and a few things somewhere along the way end up horribly wrong. I think that pretty much sums up most of Rapido's projects. Do they allow only so much in the budget, and then when that point is reached "just get it done"? That is what I suspect. pre-order or purchase anything else ever again.
Thanks for bringing up the coin collecting definition of "fine". So true. Also, do a Google image search on "This is fine", lol.
It's not the budget, it's not "rando Chinese guy". It's that Rapido does. not. care. Pretty much the opposite way of running a businees like Lee English & Bowser, Tangent, ExactRail, ScaleTrains...
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Post by riogrande on Oct 21, 2022 10:15:55 GMT -8
My main interest was the late era E units used by the UP and Amtrak, but it turns out those were E9's so I'll have to wait and see if Rapido ever does E9's. E9s are externally the same as E8s except the thinner metal headlight gasket and some (depends) porthole gaskets/diameters. Which Rapido has bungled anyway. UP E8As & Bs went to Amtrak:
Thanks for the reference. I was informed me the E9's that went to Amtrak from UP had dynamic breaks. Apparently the Amtrak units offered this round from Rapido as E8's lack them? |
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Post by bridge2nowhere on Oct 21, 2022 10:51:04 GMT -8
The UP E8's appear to have been retired by Amtrak earlier than the E9's. If I recall, the Amtrak units this run are ex Pennsy, so no relation to UP units.
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Post by riogrande on Oct 21, 2022 11:15:14 GMT -8
The UP E8's appear to have been retired by Amtrak earlier than the E9's. If I recall, the Amtrak units this run are ex Pennsy, so no relation to UP units. Right and it's the ex-UP Amtrak E units I need. |
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Post by atsf_4 on Oct 21, 2022 14:18:17 GMT -8
PRR had the largest fleet of E-8's ever built, 74 units in all.
Many went to Amtrak, and with their NYC cousins, continued to pull the Broadway Limited.
I just last night finished watching a dvd about the history of the Broadway Limited. It clearly showed that especially during the early Amtrak era, there could easily be as many as 7 former UP still bright yellow passenger cars in the consist of the Broadway Limited. They said that was common.
Also, the power pulling the Broadway Limited could be the 4316, which only wore that paint scheme for maybe 6 months, or any other Amtrak painted E, along with Penn Central painted E's and anybody else's E units. The dvd also said that most E units were out of service by 1981 and did not specify if the UP E-9's lasted any longer than PRR's large fleet of E-8's.
I hope that is helpful to some.
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Post by atsf_4 on Oct 21, 2022 14:22:31 GMT -8
I should point out that until November 2 or 3, 2022, one can still pre-order brand new Walthers Proto E-9's in Milwaukee Road (UP Yellow Scheme) or I believe UP, for the City of San Francisco for delivery in hopefully a year.
I am contemplating pre-ordering one of those A units.
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