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Post by wagnersteve on Nov 19, 2022 18:22:54 GMT -8
Most participants in this forum probably will not be interested in these, announced November 18, as additions to their own rosters. However, I think the Scale Trains announcement is correct in saying that they are good "for sharing the . . . tradition [of kit building] with the next generation of model railroaders." These are the fourth kits in this series of very simple kits, requiring only a Phillips screwdriver to assemble, and the second one based on a steam era freight car. The first Kit Classic cars were Evans double plug door boxcars, the second the gondolas built by the Burlington's Havelock shops. The first steam to transition era cars announced were the AAR offset quad open hoppers, which aren't to arrive until March 2023. So far I've bought one of the Evans double plug door cars. I want and hope to buy either a B&M or an Erie quad hopper once they're avaiable and compare its or their detailing to that of Athearn's model first tooled around 1957 or 1958. The announcement shows only two photos of finished models: Chicago & North Western 9435, 9497 and 9507: boxcar red side with white road name on three lines in Roman left of the door and huge C&NW Roman initials right of it, simulated metal or galvanized roof, black ends, underbody and trucks (the latter like all the others), 3-50. Milwaukee Road 35002, 25008, 25 025: sane colors,THE MILWAUKEE [this word is larger] ROAD in Roman on three lines left of the door, Route of the [Roman, I think] Hiawathas [in script] right of it. Renderings show these: Canadian Pacific 268829, 269920, 269030: dark r ed with white graphics, International of Maine Division in small letters above CP reporting marks left of the door, Canadian Pacific in script with the initials capitalized to the right, BLT 7-52, WW 12-63. Chesapeake & Ohio 15026, 15370, 15721: dark red with white graphics, Chesapeake & Ohio in the van Swerigen group's variant of Roman capitals left of the door, C&O for Progress herald right of it, BLT and NEW 1-48. Minneapolis Northfield & Southern 1027, 1123, 1139: dark blue sides and ends, with red and white diamond herald left of the door, huge red initials right of it, simulated metal or galvanized roof, BLT 1-52, GJ 6-71. New York Central 169075, 169075: dark red or brown sides, ends & roof, all white graphics, Roman NYC and car number left of the door, oval herald, BLT and NEW 3-50. Santa Fe 276583, 276619, 276749: dark red sides and ends, black roof & running boards, black & white circle/cross herald and Roman ATSF and car number left of the door, The Grand Canyon Line right of it on right side, Ship and Travel Santa Fe all the way there on the left side, BLT 12-47, New 4-47 -- huh?! Union Pacific 100 357, 100848, 101538: oxide red sides, ends & roof, all yellow graphics: large UNION PACIFIC in sans serif above similar small reporting marks, car number and data left of the door, slanted slogan in script Be Seppeciofic -- Ship UNION PACIFIC right of the door on goth sides , DR 8-65. Both photos and all the renderings show the door as a 7-panel Superior type. At www.rr-fallenflags.org I found a photo of that being correct for CNW 9509; CNW 9435 had a 5-panel Superior; a photo of CP 269920 also showed a 5-panel Superior door; photos of CP 269221 and 269300 show Superior doors, as does one of 2695e84, which also seemed to have black ends. At that same great website I didn't find photos of C&O cars with numbers close to that of the forthcoming models, the only photo of an MNS 40' PS-1 I found, apparently dark red 1272 with white lettering, had a 5-panel Superior door. I found a photo of NYC 1169354 with a 7-panel Superior door, but its oval herald was on a black background; NYC 165809 had that klnd of herald, extended sans serif lettering and a Youngstown door. ATSF had a 5-panel Superior door, but 5-47, shopped 2-65. Thus, Scale Trains certainly didn't match door types to quite a few of the cars shown in the announcement. The two actual photos show grab irons, ladders cast and rather oversized corner steps cast onto the body. This doesn't come close to the degree of authenticity and detail on Kadee and Tangent models of 40' PS-1 cars. However, these are fairly close in overall quality to many of the old Athearn blue box kits that helped get many of us into the hobby, with sharper lettering than those had for many years, and without overly short doors and huge door tracks to make them theoretically operable. |
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Post by hudsonyard on Nov 19, 2022 19:10:41 GMT -8
this will eventually be 15-16 bucks in the usual places, if you need cars to flesh out a fleet you can do a lot worse, i think these are the old MTH tooling. good candidates to upgrade.
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Post by wagnersteve on Nov 19, 2022 19:33:36 GMT -8
Nov. 19, 10:21 p.m., EST
Hudsonyard, thanks for your post.
I left one other problem out of my first post in this column. I bought my one Scale Trains Kit Classics Evans double plug door boxcar from a dealer, I think one I've dealt with before, a couple of years ago at one of the last shows I attended before the pandemic became recognized here in the USA. I didn't preorder one or two of the quad hoppers in time to get the preorder price because they're not high on my priority list andI was hoping, and still hope, to find one at a reasonable price at a show next Spring. Neither of the two online dealers I've often bought from appear to stock Scale Trains products. The Nov. 18 Scale Trains announcement invites 1) direct preorders to Scale Trains itself or 2) "find[ing] a Select Retailer". Clicking on that button brings you to just three of those: Lombard Hobbies and DesPlaines Hobbies (both in Illinois) and All American Hobbies (in Kaarst, German). I'm pretty sure I've bought from Des Plaines in the past only at the West Springfield, Mass. show in the last weekend in January and have never bought from the other two. Not ideal for a small-time customer like me.
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Post by The Ferro Kid on Nov 20, 2022 2:59:42 GMT -8
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Nov 20, 2022 3:47:32 GMT -8
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Post by markfj on Nov 20, 2022 5:10:43 GMT -8
Thorough and well written overview, thanks!
There is certainly a market for these as entry-level or fleet builder cars. For the more detail oriented, there are still plenty of Branchline, IMRC and Kadee kits around to build whatever you want in a PS-1 40' boxcar. Also Tangent will probably expand on their PS-1 line.
Thanks, Mark
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Post by bridge2nowhere on Nov 20, 2022 6:23:34 GMT -8
Nov. 19, 10:21 p.m., EST Hudsonyard, thanks for your post. ...Neither of the two online dealers I've often bought from appear to stock Scale Trains products. The Nov. 18 Scale Trains announcement invites 1) direct preorders to Scale Trains itself or 2) "find[ing] a Select Retailer". Clicking on that button brings you to just three of those: Lombard Hobbies and DesPlaines Hobbies (both in Illinois) and All American Hobbies (in Kaarst, German)... I'm not sure how you only got those three, but the "Store Locator" link on their homepage searching everywhere shows 43 dealers in North America, 2 in Europe and 1 in Asia. www.scaletrains.com/store-locator |
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Post by wagnersteve on Nov 20, 2022 14:53:14 GMT -8
Nov. 20, 5:37 p.m., EST
bridge2nowhere, thanks! I did it right this time and picked "my location" from a drop-down menu. The closest of the three hobby shops listed, however, and the only one here in Massachusetts, is at least a 45-minute drive from here. The other two are in Yarmouth, Maine and Schenectady, New York, both hours from here. Nearly all hobby shops closer have closed. I should send a question to a big one in Malden, MA, which is a bit more convenient, but still at least 45 minutes' drive away.
Colin 't Hart, you're correct about the color of the MNS car from Kadee. I have on my roster a 53' Evans double plug door from Atlas decorated for the MNS; as I recall its color is proper. Having grown up riding trolleys and interurbans in Philadelphia and its suburbs, I like to have cars from old electric traction lines even if they're now dieselize, and the "Dan Patch" lines in Minnesota, named for a great harness racing horse, certainly qualifies for that, as do some railroads in Indiana, Illinois, Iowa and California.. I've also been in parts of the Gopher State, used to work closely with a publisher there, and have a good friend there, also an HO modeler and railman, whom I've never yet met in person. I've voted for two Minnesotans for US President, neither of whom won. I've only been outside North America once, for the summer of 1966, and never got closer to Sweden than Berlin, but I have a very positive impression of your country.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Nov 20, 2022 15:13:22 GMT -8
Well, yeah. That Kadee blue is kind of weak and faded. But ya can't top THIS for "you've got to be kidding me.":  And they've done this car at least twice. "Collect 'em all, kids!" Ed |
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Post by lvrr325 on Nov 21, 2022 0:01:38 GMT -8
We've been through this before; Scaletrains sells only direct and through their friends.
I still have one of the double plug door kits left, all these years after their one shot through regular distribution channels.
Even the old AHM PS1 had separate ladders. I can buy Kadee sometimes in the box for the $15 this is going to retail for as guys dump them, I almost bought two more at the last show I went to. If they can sell these, great, but I will pass.
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Post by bn7023 on Nov 21, 2022 2:57:06 GMT -8
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Post by markfj on Nov 21, 2022 4:24:26 GMT -8
Is the floor and frame assembly exceptionally good compared to the rest of the car? Looks like it has separately applied details, but it's hard to tell from the photo above.
Um, never mind, the second photo didn't load when I made my first remark. Yeah, that looks like a nicely detailed assembly. It's better than Kadee's generic, Delrin details.
Mark
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Post by riogrande on Nov 21, 2022 5:03:26 GMT -8
The paint separation line on the yellow/brown car is fuzzy on the left side.
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Post by fishbelly on Nov 21, 2022 5:08:59 GMT -8
40' Accurail underframes are not a bad option for $6.00 each.
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Post by PennCentral on Nov 21, 2022 10:58:04 GMT -8
Nov. 20, 5:37 p.m., EST The other two are in Yarmouth, Maine and Schenectady, New York, both hours from here. Nearly all hobby shops closer have closed. I should send a question to a big one in Malden, MA, which is a bit more convenient, but still at least 45 minutes' drive away. Steve, Mohawk Valley in Schenectady closed earlier this year. JP's in Latham just closed a few weeks ago. Reportedly JP's will be reopening at some point near Troy. Unclear if there will be a new name. Jason C Indiana |
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Post by lvrr325 on Nov 21, 2022 20:08:13 GMT -8
With Village Train in Windsor (east of Binghamton) closing soon that's three hobby shops all in NY going away.
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Post by bn7023 on Nov 21, 2022 22:04:46 GMT -8
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Post by Christian on Nov 22, 2022 2:39:19 GMT -8
Tangent w/9-ft door   Walthers Mainline w/6-ft door  |
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Post by wagnersteve on Nov 22, 2022 2:53:05 GMT -8
Thanks for several recent posts, including Christian's very helpful close-up photos.
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Post by Christian on Nov 22, 2022 3:15:37 GMT -8
Anyone modeling the 50s and 60s cannot have too many Pullman boxcars. WWII wore out fleets of boxcars and Pullman was quick to offer thousands of new boxcars. The 6ft door cars were prized by grainger railroads because they were new/clean and had narrow doors, making boarding them up for grain cheaper. Remember that most corn soybeans and wheat were shipped in boxcars until well into the 60s.
All these offerings at different price points and levels of detail give a railroad modeler wonderful choices. Plus, potentially, a good chance at a favorite paint scheme RTR.
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Post by bn7023 on Nov 22, 2022 4:03:26 GMT -8
Tangent w/9-ft door ( Tangent Scale Models website) 
click here to enlargeHaha, Christian caught my scheme. Does anyone have a photo of the Tangent Combination Door PS-1? Kadee w/8-ft door  Looking at this Tangent photo, I strongly believe that the position of the main crossbeams is wrong in Kadee 8-ft door PS-1's. They should be directly connected to the doorway pillars. Otherwise, the car body will deform when lateral forces are applied. The PS-1 should have a stressed skin structure (semi-monocoque). The Kurtz-Kraft product released in 1957 may be correct, including the brake equipment layout. Unfortunately, all published structural drawings are for 6-foot door cars, and 8-foot door cars cannot be found. Kurtz-Kraft w/8-ft door  |
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Post by wagnersteve on Nov 22, 2022 9:07:34 GMT -8
I believe bn7023 is correct about the underbody casting for Kadee's 40' PS-1 boxcars with 8-foot doors; it also may not be quite right for some of that firm's other 40' PS-1 models. "Sam the Answer Man" who helped run Kadeem for years, now retired, whom I miss very much, explained years ago that producing a new metal casting that would be correct would make the resulting models MUCH more expensive. Remember that Kadee's products, unlike many others, are actually made in the USA. I understand the reason for the compromise and am content with several Kadee cars whose under frames aren't quite right.
Kurtz-Kraft's boxcars were the first decent more or less mass-produced PS-1's in HO. I built a few of them decades ago. They and the same firm's 40' steel reefers had a few problems of their own.
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Post by riogrande on Nov 22, 2022 9:23:16 GMT -8
For years I had no 40' boxcars because I erroneously thought they very rare in the 70's and gone by the early 80's but I've learned since that there were quite a few 40 footers in the 1970's and the purge of them happened during the traffic down turn in the early 80's; thats when they really were retired en-mass (correct me if I'm wrong).
Anyway, during the past several years I have added a number of 40 foot boxcars to mix in for late 70's freight trains and included Intermountain, Kadee, Tangent and a few Accurail.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Nov 22, 2022 10:08:36 GMT -8
I dug one of my Tangent plug/slides out, and it appears they use the same underframe layout as the 9'-door cars. This puts one of the two big crossbearers near the middle of the plug door. Ed |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Nov 22, 2022 10:48:17 GMT -8
Here's how GN did the underframe of a similar car: GN 13077, built by GN:  I can't quite figure out the sizing of the crossbearers, but they appear to align with the major architecture of the door frame. This is how GN did it. It's possible P-S had a different concept in mind, and chose not to align the crossbearers. I note that the "minor" crossbearers on the PS-1 did not align with the internal body posts (inside the sides). Ed |
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Post by wagnersteve on Nov 25, 2022 11:10:33 GMT -8
November 25, 2022
starting 1:54 p.m., EST
I have just now accidentally run across a published photo of a Minneapolis, Northfield & Southern 40' PS-1 boxcar that may possibly be related to Kadee's light blue HO model decorated as MNS 1157. It's a photo of MNS 433, made by Henry Maywald in March 1977, printed on p. 47 of Classic Freight Cars, Vol. 1: The Ubiquitous, Utilitarian 40 Foot Box Car, by John Henderson, Flushing, NY: H&M Productions, 1992, a horizontal format paperback. Its caption says that it I"is in a green version that predates the black". The caption has both colors wrong. MNSs 427's end is clearly light blue; its side has enough dirt on it that the author may have thought it green: That car has a 6-panel PS door. The "black" refers to MNS 427, in a photo on the same page made by Frank S. Novak at Collinwood Yard [in or near Cleveland on the New York Central] in February 1979; its side and roof are clearly a darker blue and its end, in shade may be -- it's in shadow. Both cars on that page have had the running board removed from their roofs; the 427 clearly still has its brake wheel still mounted high, because the ladder on the side nearest it hasn't been shortened.
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Post by Baikal on Nov 25, 2022 12:07:23 GMT -8
November 25, 2022 starting 1:54 p.m., EST I have just now accidentally run across a published photo of a Minneapolis, Northfield & Southern 40' PS-1 boxcar that may possibly be related to Kadee's light blue HO model decorated as MNS 1157. It's a photo of MNS 433, made by Henry Maywald in March 1977, printed on p. 47 of Classic Freight Cars, Vol. 1: The Ubiquitous, Utilitarian 40 Foot Box Car, by John Henderson, Flushing, NY: H&M Productions, 1992, a horizontal format paperback. Its caption says that it I"is in a green version that predates the black". The caption has both colors wrong. MNSs 427's end is clearly light blue; its side has enough dirt on it that the author may have thought it green: That car has a 6-panel PS door. The "black" refers to MNS 427, in a photo on the same page made by Frank S. Novak at Collinwood Yard [in or near Cleveland on the New York Central] in February 1979; its side and roof are clearly a darker blue and its end, in shade may be -- it's in shadow. Both cars on that page have had the running board removed from their roofs; the 427 clearly still has its brake wheel still mounted high, because the ladder on the side nearest it hasn't been shortened.
Yep, stuff happens & it sometimes shows up in photos. Like SP's black & red SD45T-2R 6774.
Or photos of some PFE olive green express refers with obvious orange lettering, despite "an official diagram says Dulux gold!", which has lead some modelers to think ALL PFE referes used Dulux gold (aka tan), ALL the time.
Or the insistance that Los Angeles Junction Alco switchers were the same color as ATSF blue units, even with dozens of photos to the contrary (In reality LAJ was more like a blue version of PRR's very dark DGLE "Brunswick Green"). Why? Who knows.
I try to model the common, too many oddball cars or locos in one setting is unrealistic, tho tempting- I just bought a BLI Centipede, which never ran in any area I'd ever model.
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Post by wagnersteve on Nov 25, 2022 12:47:52 GMT -8
Nov. 25, finishing about 3:47 p.m., EST.
I've now done a little on line research and see that the not just the 40' PS-1 boxcars announced by Scale Trains in their Kit Classics line but also the quad hoppers announced earlier appear to be based on former MTH models. MTH made such boxcars lettered for ATSF, B&O, BN, DHNY ("I Love NY" -- used only on 50' cars ), MILW, PRR (two paint schemes), P&LE, WM and perhaps others. Quad hoppers including ATSF, B&O, GN, P&LE, maybe others. Also still gondolas, ribbed twin hoppers, ore cars and wood reefers that look fairly good.
I have never bought any MTH freight cars but am very pleased with that former firm's models of stainless steel cars built by Budd for the New York Central's Empire State Express ca. 1941, of which I have a few.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Nov 25, 2022 13:38:35 GMT -8
I'm looking forward to their iron ore cars--probably the best ever (not a high bar). It would be wise of ScaleTrains to make it easy to buy a lot of them, for those that wants 'em. You really need about 100 of the little fellas (or more, of course!) And I wouldn't want to start with a few, only to find that they're not going to keep making them. Here's an example of what I'm talking about (with the optional taconite extensions):  Ed |
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Post by Baikal on Nov 25, 2022 14:18:09 GMT -8
I'm looking forward to their iron ore cars--probably the best ever (not a high bar). It would be wise of ScaleTrains to make it easy to buy a lot of them, for those that wants 'em. You really need about 100 of the little fellas (or more, of course!) And I wouldn't want to start with a few, only to find that they're not going to keep making them. Here's an example of what I'm talking about (with the optional taconite extensions): Ed What roads (or very close) is this car good for? Was this type used outside the Lake Superior iron ore mining area? US Steel Wyoming? |
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