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Post by Mr. Trainiac on Dec 8, 2022 12:58:56 GMT -8
So, is there a decent replacement truck, that would work? If you have the sound version, it may be difficult to find a replacement, since Rapido included brass pickup strips for the electronics. The trucks also use sealed roller bearings, rather than the 'open' type you see today with the rotating end cap. I suspect someone will have to design a 3D printed version to fix the issue.
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Dec 8, 2022 13:57:33 GMT -8
So, is there a decent replacement truck, that would work? If you have the sound version, it may be difficult to find a replacement, since Rapido included brass pickup strips for the electronics. The trucks also use sealed roller bearings, rather than the 'open' type you see today with the rotating end cap. I suspect someone will have to design a 3D printed version to fix the issue. Paging simulatortrain.
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Post by idgara on Dec 9, 2022 1:27:31 GMT -8
No, mine is none sound, so, maybe Moloco or Tahoe?
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Post by fr8kar on Dec 9, 2022 6:29:52 GMT -8
I'm just sitting here chuckling about the angst over the trucks. I remember a few years ago when Blaine Hadfield (Arrowhead Models) put the ridiculous looking 50T trucks on the 70T PRR H39 hopper. When pointed out that they were incorrect on this forum, the Blaine Hadfield "defense attorneys" pointed out that trucks really didn't matter, it was the highly detailed model that counted. So back then it was a free pass for totally wrong trucks and now it's crucifixion for Rapido's correct trucks that don't meet the "exacting" standards of the ARF. I can only speak for myself, but Arrowhead deserved just as much flak for that gaffe as Rapido does for this one. I'm not biased. That particular model wasn't on my radar so I didn't pay much attention at the time. I do remember the capacity data issue but not the trucks. I thought Tangent was the first of the new generation of high-end model companies to make 50-ton trucks, but then again 50-ton trucks don't draw much interest from me.
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Post by simulatortrain on Dec 9, 2022 8:23:36 GMT -8
If you have the sound version, it may be difficult to find a replacement, since Rapido included brass pickup strips for the electronics. The trucks also use sealed roller bearings, rather than the 'open' type you see today with the rotating end cap. I suspect someone will have to design a 3D printed version to fix the issue. Paging simulatortrain. Already on it!
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Post by atsf_4 on Dec 9, 2022 11:43:40 GMT -8
The non-sound cars seem to already have the brass pickup plate on the trucks.
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Post by cera2254 on Dec 9, 2022 11:48:04 GMT -8
Anyone got a photo of the trucks on the prototype?
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Post by Mr. Trainiac on Dec 9, 2022 12:04:16 GMT -8
Anyone got a photo of the trucks on the prototype? rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=5417158A lot of the photos online show standard roller bearing axles, which is a good sign for those wishing to swap the trucks out. You could go with regular Tangent trucks and not have to worry about the axle box covers. The photo above shows newer 'open' roller bearing axles, the axle nearest the camera (and slightly covered by the corner stirrup) shows the original sealed bearing cover.
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Post by NS4122 on Dec 9, 2022 12:23:48 GMT -8
If you watch the Rapido video about the cars, they have several photos that show the trucks starting at 0:43. Just pause the video for a better look. Anyone got a photo of the trucks on the prototype? rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=5417158A lot of the photos online show standard roller bearing axles, which is a good sign for those wishing to swap the trucks out. You could go with regular Tangent trucks and not have to worry about the axle box covers. The photo above shows newer 'open' roller bearing axles, the axle nearest the camera (and slightly covered by the corner stirrup) shows the original sealed bearing cover.
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Post by cera2254 on Dec 9, 2022 12:35:16 GMT -8
Thanks for the info guys.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Dec 9, 2022 12:37:41 GMT -8
The prototypes for these models were built in 1955 and 1958. In 1963 the SFRD reporting mark was retired with respect to these cars. For example, there are none listed in the January 1965 ORER.
I doubt Santa Fe would have changed out the original trucks/bearings in the first 5 to 8 years of these cars.
So you rivet counters gotta stick with this style truck. Adam will likely come to the rescue, though!
Alternately, Rapido could cut new molds for these trucks. Gee, I'm just SURE they will.
Ed
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Post by mvlandsw on Dec 9, 2022 12:44:08 GMT -8
rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=5417158
This picture does show a faded color closer to Rapido's paint 15+ years after they were built. The cars next to it show the more orange color.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Dec 9, 2022 13:05:19 GMT -8
That photo is of a Rr-54, and that paint and lettering scheme was applied to that series around 1966. It's pretty hard to believe that paint faded like that in only 7 years.
The extent of paint fade for the first 5-8 years of the subject cars is certainly an interesting point.
Ed
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Post by fr8kar on Dec 9, 2022 15:16:47 GMT -8
Anyone got a photo of the trucks on the prototype? rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=5417158A lot of the photos online show standard roller bearing axles, which is a good sign for those wishing to swap the trucks out. You could go with regular Tangent trucks and not have to worry about the axle box covers. The photo above shows newer 'open' roller bearing axles, the axle nearest the camera (and slightly covered by the corner stirrup) shows the original sealed bearing cover. I don't think Tangent makes the trucks for these cars. I could be wrong, but they look like 70-ton ASF Ride Control trucks to me. Tangent makes a plain bearing version, but not a roller bearing version.... yet. ExactRail and Athearn Genesis make them though.
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Post by atsf_4 on Dec 9, 2022 15:35:31 GMT -8
Actually, the RR-60 and -61 classes were built during 1959, at least according to the lettering on the cars that Rapido modeled.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Dec 9, 2022 15:46:54 GMT -8
Actually, the RR-60 and -61 classes were built during 1959, at least according to the lettering on the cars that Rapido modeled. I was quoting data from the Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society's "Mechanical Refrigerator Cars and Insulated Refrigerator Cars of the Santa Fe Railway 1949-1988", pages 73 and 75 respectively. The first Rr-60 was built in April of 1958. Ed
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Post by SCL618 on Dec 9, 2022 17:34:05 GMT -8
Moloco offers a 70 ton ASF Ride Control with Timken bearings as their part TR-4110, which is likely the closet available truck at the moment but I do not know if these prototypes used a 5’00” or 5’06” wheelbase which makes a difference in appearance. The sealed bearings were removed in compliance with FRA mandates and heat detection issues based on what I have read, but without a general arrangement diagram to consult and a lack of ATSF resources, I’m at a loss for information. Mine will be replaced as soon as Plate C gets a truck to market.
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Post by atsf_4 on Dec 9, 2022 19:53:43 GMT -8
Actually, the RR-60 and -61 classes were built during 1959, at least according to the lettering on the cars that Rapido modeled. I was quoting data from the Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society's "Mechanical Refrigerator Cars and Insulated Refrigerator Cars of the Santa Fe Railway 1949-1988", pages 73 and 75 respectively. The first Rr-60 was built in April of 1958. Ed Hi Ed-- Very interesting. Going downstairs to check the lettering on the cars... Rapido jacked up at least some of the lettering on these cars. Even the Rapido website does in fact say they were built during 1958, but that's not what the lettering on some of the cars says. The Rr-60 class reefers do show a tiny Blt 4-58 (on the two I just checked) BUT they already have a shop date next to the dimensional data that is in '59: WC 4-59. Not sure why a mechanical reefer that is nearly brand new would have a shop date 1 year old or less? Unless the unit failed or something? Curious that it is the same month of April. The Rr-61 class reefer I just checked very clearly (in two places on the car) shows NEW 12-59 and Blt 12-59. So that is flat out wrong. I checked with a magnifying glass. My eyes are not that bad yet. The hits just keep on coming!
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Post by edwardsutorik on Dec 9, 2022 20:29:23 GMT -8
The cover photo on the book I was referencing is a shot of Rr-60 SFRD 2213. And it does have a shop date of WC 4-59.
It's right there. In color!
Yup, the Rr-61 is lookin' weird. But.......
Ed
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Post by atsf_4 on Dec 9, 2022 22:28:00 GMT -8
Thank you for the information.
This is a trust issue, and they are not in the circle of trust.
If they can't get the little easy things right like the build year, why would I ever trust them and pre-order again?
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Post by edwardsutorik on Dec 10, 2022 6:33:29 GMT -8
For this model, Rapido was supplied with lots of information from one guy who appears to me to be pretty squared away on the matter.
I suspect that errors on this model came about when someone got "creative". Like on the trucks, which do appear to be copies of the real ones. Just BAD copies.
Where they had to put a date on a car, I expect they just used whatever date he supplied. And so that's likely correct.
I understand your comment about "trust issue".
Ed
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Post by schroed2 on Dec 10, 2022 7:40:38 GMT -8
For this model, Rapido was supplied with lots of information from one guy who appears to me to be pretty squared away on the matter. I suspect that errors on this model came about when someone got "creative". Like on the trucks, which do appear to be copies of the real ones. Just BAD copies. Where they had to put a date on a car, I expect they just used whatever date he supplied. And so that's likely correct. I understand your comment about "trust issue". Ed if you are referring to the guy who was very active for this project on various lists I also subscribe to, he is not interested in anything after 1956 (according to his own statement)
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Post by edwardsutorik on Dec 10, 2022 7:51:52 GMT -8
Bernd,
I am sure it's the same person. But to get his "1956" project done, he would likely have been responsive to supplying Rapido with post-1956 information leading to increased sales.
If my assumption is in error, then later versions of these models will deserve extra scrutiny.
Ed
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Post by atsf_4 on Dec 10, 2022 8:13:58 GMT -8
I am not interested in bashing the source, or his chosen era or anything like that.
Products must get QA/QC reviews before they go out the door. It is actually my job in engineering to do those reviews, before drawings are ever finalized, just not for model trains, and I have not devoted any time to collecting railroad drawings to be able to better know some of the facts.
I do appreciate the facts that Ed and others contribute here, if I don't thank them often enough.
It appears Rapido is rushing the QA/QC process. Other HO manufacturers are doing it better even or especially with regard to paint color.
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Post by Baikal on Dec 10, 2022 9:23:46 GMT -8
For this model, Rapido was supplied with lots of information from one guy who appears to me to be pretty squared away on the matter. I suspect that errors on this model came about when someone got "creative". Like on the trucks, which do appear to be copies of the real ones. Just BAD copies. Where they had to put a date on a car, I expect they just used whatever date he supplied. And so that's likely correct. I understand your comment about "trust issue". Ed
Not being a Santa Fe guy I've mostly glossed over the details, but I think there was two different orange colors used on Santa Fe reefers. What/when, I don't know.
He's now advocating with Rapido for an early PFE mechanical reefer. I will be following that project more closely.
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Post by grabirons on Dec 11, 2022 15:04:04 GMT -8
I bought one of these reefers, and I think they are fantastic.
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Post by simulatortrain on Dec 13, 2022 17:13:52 GMT -8
I think something like this should do:
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Post by cemr5396 on Dec 13, 2022 19:23:22 GMT -8
I think something like this should do: looks really good!
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Post by fr8kar on Dec 13, 2022 20:18:42 GMT -8
I think something like this should do: Ooh, now do them set up for Tangent wheels with the operating bearing caps!
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Post by cera2254 on Dec 14, 2022 6:25:24 GMT -8
Simulatortrain, looks like rapido needs to hire you to do trucks!
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