abm
Junior Member
Posts: 65
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Post by abm on Dec 31, 2022 17:26:28 GMT -8
Greetings,
Looking for a sanity check here… the locomotive is a Rapido RS-11. Purchased new without sound/dcc, I added a Loksound V5 generic, which is plug-and-play on the existing Rapido board. I do have a Lokprogrammer. Uploaded the latest version (Ed3) of ESU’s Alco 251B sound file and began the process of reassigning CV’s. So far so good, everything functions ok, runs fine.
However a curious thing is happening: no matter what I do, the rear class lights are always lit green when track power is applied… even when the LokProgrammer (or controller) is set to a different locomotive address. I’ve more-or less figured out which features are hooked up to which Aux outputs, except the rear class lights. I can’t seem to control them on any aux output.
Any ideas? Of course I already put the body shell back on (d’oh!) but I’m thinking I need to take it back off and look for a wire hooked up incorrectly… seems odd on a factory board but I can’t think of anything else?
Thanks for any input you might provide…
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jan 1, 2023 7:09:38 GMT -8
"It's a a'venture." Since I haven't a clue, I suppose it's too early to say you HAVE to open it up. One thing I wonder is if each class light has four wires going to it (3 separate LED's) or two (a multi-color LED). It seems that if it's the latter, it can't be a wiring issue. Well, unless someone at the factory attached the feed wire at the wrong location. Another thing is that BOTH LED's are doing it. That also strongly hints that it's not a defect in an LED--what are the odds both of those two would be bad in the same way? And also less likely to be a wiring issue. You might want to bring this question up over on the Loksound group: groups.io/g/LoksoundMaybe not right away, but if "we" don't figure it out. Ed |
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Post by ncrc5315 on Jan 1, 2023 8:27:01 GMT -8
I have a Rapido RS-11, that I mistakenly purchased without sound. If I remember correctly, you have to get the ESu decoder from Rapido, something to do with how it's setup.
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abm
Junior Member
Posts: 65
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Post by abm on Jan 1, 2023 14:07:07 GMT -8
With me, DCC programming is always a bit of an adventure. The sound file loaded on the factory-equipped DCC models is unique to Rapido, and I guess some of the programming is proprietary too. I knew that going into this, and specifically wanted to try ESU’s sound file (which after playing with it is, I think is a little better). But the lack of any kind of control over the rear class lights just has me stumped. One tidbit I have picked up is that when the transistor(s) that actually control the aux outputs typically fail, they short-circuit, i.e. they act as if the function were always “on”. It has occurred to me that since my goal is to MU this unit back-to-back with another, I could just cut the wire or unsolder it from its pad. I have zero need for operating rear class lights on this locomotive. Everything else seems to work fine. |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jan 1, 2023 14:21:13 GMT -8
It has occurred to me that since my goal is to MU this unit back-to-back with another, I could just cut the wire or unsolder it from its pad. I have zero need for operating rear class lights on this locomotive. Everything else seems to work fine. Yeah. I had a similar reaction when I put a decoder into an Athearn GP60B: Headlights? WHAT headlights? I've also got some F7's coming up as ABBA sets, with an assortment of headlights on the "flat" ends. I think those also will become "non-functional". Ed |
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Post by Baikal on Jan 1, 2023 14:35:59 GMT -8
With me, DCC programming is always a bit of an adventure. The sound file loaded on the factory-equipped DCC models is unique to Rapido, and I guess some of the programming is proprietary too. I knew that going into this, and specifically wanted to try ESU’s sound file (which after playing with it is, I think is a little better). But the lack of any kind of control over the rear class lights just has me stumped. One tidbit I have picked up is that when the transistor(s) that actually control the aux outputs typically fail, they short-circuit, i.e. they act as if the function were always “on”. It has occurred to me that since my goal is to MU this unit back-to-back with another, I could just cut the wire or unsolder it from its pad. I have zero need for operating rear class lights on this locomotive. Everything else seems to work fine.
"DCC". Everything connected to loco control: programmming, power distribution, trackwork & electrical issues, difficulty integrating signals, loco on-board systems, speed matching, consisting, proprietary stuff, sound (a large branch), etc. It's become a major adjunct segment of the hobby, like photography, loco & car detailing, scenery, operations, historical research...
Some people are really in to it, I want as little to do with it as possible. DCC is how old?
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Post by ncrc5315 on Jan 1, 2023 16:24:54 GMT -8
With me, DCC programming is always a bit of an adventure. The sound file loaded on the factory-equipped DCC models is unique to Rapido, and I guess some of the programming is proprietary too. I knew that going into this, and specifically wanted to try ESU’s sound file (which after playing with it is, I think is a little better). But the lack of any kind of control over the rear class lights just has me stumped. One tidbit I have picked up is that when the transistor(s) that actually control the aux outputs typically fail, they short-circuit, i.e. they act as if the function were always “on”. It has occurred to me that since my goal is to MU this unit back-to-back with another, I could just cut the wire or unsolder it from its pad. I have zero need for operating rear class lights on this locomotive. Everything else seems to work fine.
"DCC". Everything connected to loco control: programmming, power distribution, trackwork & electrical issues, difficulty integrating signals, loco on-board systems, speed matching, consisting, proprietary stuff, sound (a large branch), etc. It's become a major adjunct segment of the hobby, like photography, loco & car detailing, scenery, operations, historical research...
Some people are really in to it, I want as little to do with it as possible. DCC is how old?
Probably best not to use it then. |
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Post by Baikal on Jan 1, 2023 17:04:11 GMT -8
"DCC". Everything connected to loco control: programmming, power distribution, trackwork & electrical issues, difficulty integrating signals, loco on-board systems, speed matching, consisting, proprietary stuff, sound (a large branch), etc. It's become a major adjunct segment of the hobby, like photography, loco & car detailing, scenery, operations, historical research...
Some people are really in to it, I want as little to do with it as possible. DCC is how old?
Why do you say that? Are you with NMRA?
"as little to do with it as possible" does not mean "will not use it".
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Post by atsfgp7u on Jan 1, 2023 17:29:31 GMT -8
IIRC, these locos use a 21 pin decoder. While Rapido can ask ESU to set up the pin function however they want, the "standard" 21 pin 5DCC decoder from ESU, stock number 58429, is set up with AUX3 (Pin 13), AUX4 (Pin 4), AUX5 (Pin 17), AUX6 (Pin 3) and AUX7 (Pin 2) as logic level outputs. If you connect a light to any of these, as soon as you put the loco on the track the light will come on. However, at the other end of the decoder are solder pads. AUX8, AUX7, AUX6, AUX5, AUX4 and AUX3 are all Power Functions, which means they will provide on/off functions for lighting. So you can find where the marker light wires are soldered onto the Rapido board, unsolder them, and resolder them to the appropriate AUX solder pad. I rang a mate who has a factory sound RS-11 and he said the class lights are on Function Button 11 (upper register 1 on an NCE T-bone). Removing the RS-112 shell however, is not for the feint hearted. Here is Rapido's video on how to. Use the link below to go to ESU's Manuals page, scroll down to "Loksound 5", download the manual and scroll down to Page 20 for a schematic of the decoder showing all the pin and solder tab functions. www.esu.eu/en/downloads/instruction-manuals/digital-decoders/cheers Dave |
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abm
Junior Member
Posts: 65
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Post by abm on Jan 2, 2023 15:41:49 GMT -8
Update: problem solved.
Dave, while your reply did not directly solve my issue, it did get me pointed in the right direction... thank you!
So I broke down and pulled the shell (again). I've had some prior practice with this so I've gotten pretty efficient at it, but it's still a little painful/dicey, but whatever. I visually traced everything back to the motherboard, and then ran through each Aux again using the Lokprogrammer, to nail down exactly which aux output controls what. I was careful to make sure each function output was set properly (dimmable headlight, fader, LED mode), which I think is what I missed last time. In any case, all the lights are working now with independent control.
The motherboard connections match the Aux pinouts read through the Lokprogrammer. The rear light board has the following connections to the bottom/rear of the motherboard:
red wire = voltage common
yellow wire = RL = rear headlight
blue wire = Aux4 = numberboards
green wire = Aux7 = rear class light, green
black wire = Aux 5 = rear class light, white
Aux 10 and Aux 12 are open
The front light board has the following connections to the bottom/front of the motherboard:
red wire = voltage common
yellow wire = FL = front headlight
blue wire = Aux4 = numberboards
green wire = Aux 6 = front class lights, green
black wire = Aux3 = front class lights, white
Aux 10 and Aux 11 are open
There are additional connections on the top/front of the motherboard:
Aux1 = control stand light
Aux2 = ground lights (2)
Aux 8 and Aux 9 were not readily apparent on the motherboard.
What I think I was missing was that I either never tried Aux 7, or had it set up wrong in the function outputs page. I either did the same thing with Aux 5 or, more likely, I couldn't discern the additional white light turning on/off under the green which wouldn't turn off (they are separate LED's, FYI).
Regarding DCC: When I first got into the hobby, DCC was still in its infancy and was a curiosity to many people. I was too young (and too poor) to really get into the debate. When I came back to the hobby, DCC had become dominant and the advantages it offers for control were obvious, though the sound quality was still pretty shabby so I was turned off to sound-equipped models. But as the sound has improved I've warmed up to it. The lighting effects available now and the switch to LED's is, I believe, a major advance. I'm not a real "techy" person but have become "fluent" enough with DCC that messing around with it is almost halfway enjoyable now.
Thanks everyone for the input.
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Post by Gino Damen on Jan 3, 2023 12:46:27 GMT -8
Aux 9 is used to control the behaviour of a powerpack if installed. That is probably the reason that it isn´t physically used. On NEXT18 decoders from ESU Aux 7 serves the same purpose.
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