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Post by Bergerac on Mar 3, 2023 5:43:39 GMT -8
Hello,
thank you very much for adding me as a new member of this great community.
I found a video about a very old Atlas (H0) layout and I decided to try building it with (new, of course !) Atlas track.
But I can't do that without the real track plan. Where/how can I find it ? Many thanks in advance for your help.
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Post by riogrande on Mar 3, 2023 6:01:56 GMT -8
Atlas has published track plan books. There is probably a copy out there - maybe someone even has a copy they don't need buried away.
If you are new to the hobby, it might be worth building a simpler oval to get some practice on track laying etc.
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Post by The Ferro Kid on Mar 3, 2023 6:23:31 GMT -8
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Post by edwardsutorik on Mar 3, 2023 6:30:54 GMT -8
When I was a bit younger, I had some Atlas track plan books. This one doesn't look familiar. I think it's a one-off.
Hence it's unlikely to have a published track plan.
I do see some sectional track. There might also be some flex-track--not sure.
Because there's such a variety of manufacturers for both the rolling stock and the buildings, I doubt it was a display layout built by a manufacturer. Perhaps it was one for a hobby shop.
I note that there is block wiring and that there's electric switch machines. There's going to be some significant wiring to do, here!
It being brass track, it's pretty early. But not THAT early, as the switch machines are a later design than when I dabbled with Atlas (early sixties).
I will totally agree with Jim that this is not a layout for a beginner to do on his own. I'm also not sure it's the best layout for an Atlas tracked 4 x 8, but people have different wants and needs.
Ed
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Post by edwardsutorik on Mar 3, 2023 6:40:52 GMT -8
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Post by riogrande on Mar 3, 2023 7:18:58 GMT -8
There is going to be some sharp curves on that layout, for sure 18" radius curves, for what it's worth. While longer cars might be able to run on it without derailing, 4-axle diesels and cars limited to 60' or less in length would work the best and look the best.
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Post by The Ferro Kid on Mar 3, 2023 8:53:00 GMT -8
There is going to be some sharp curves on that layout, for sure 18" radius curves, for what it's worth. While longer cars might be able to run on it without derailing, 4-axle diesels and cars limited to 60' or less in length would work the best and look the best. For that reason, it would be a nice plan to blow up to a 5 x 10 or 5 x 12 area and get wider curves and more room for structures. |
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Post by riogrande on Mar 3, 2023 9:19:26 GMT -8
There is going to be some sharp curves on that layout, for sure 18" radius curves, for what it's worth. While longer cars might be able to run on it without derailing, 4-axle diesels and cars limited to 60' or less in length would work the best and look the best. For that reason, it would be a nice plan to blow up to a 5 x 10 or 5 x 12 area and get wider curves and more room for structures. The photo/video looks like the layout was built on a ping-pong table, which measures 5x9 feet. That would be enough to broaden the curves to something better. Flex track would enable more flexibility in track design on a 5x9 format. |
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ictom
Junior Member
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Post by ictom on Mar 3, 2023 9:44:25 GMT -8
I'm glad you guys finally settled on the track plan: the Waterlevel Western from Atlas's King Size Plan Book.
I built the Apex & Hypotenuse layout from that book in the early 70s.
It depends on whether you want "real" two-train operation or a longer route. There are two crossings in the Waterlevel Western. It's actually a folded dogbone where one loop crosses over the other loop twice. That gives you a longer run for a single train, but it goes back over the same space twice, more or less.
If you're interested in two-train operation, the Great Eastern Trunk is a better choice, IMHO. For 1, the turntable isn't wasted as it is in the Waterlevel Western. There are 4 stub tracks shown on the Great Eastern Trunk, with room to easily add 2 or 3 more. I believe the new version of the Atlas turntable has twice the positions available, too. So, perhaps even more options.
For 2, the Great Eastern Trunk has two, completely separate loops (although connected with crossovers). This will allow you two-train operation continuously, while you fiddle with the stub tracks and/or the little mini-yard with a 3rd or even 4th loco. If you use DCC, this is the way to fully exploit the multiple-trains-running capability.
Back in the 70s, I had no model railroad club or mentor to advise me. I just read the books. So, I swallowed the line that Atlas track plans with passing sidings allowed two-train operation. Not really. Yeah, you can PARK a train in a passing siding and let it sit while you operate the other one, but that's all. In my naive mind at the time, I thought Atlas meant continous running of two trains and that passing sidings were really "passing lanes" like on a highway. No one is quick enough with the toggle switches to really make it work with just passing sidings - unless you're running the trains at about 1-2 scale mph, which wasn't possible with the locos of the early 70s. The Great Eastern Trunk in the "Seven Step-By-Step HO Railroads" Atlas book will come closest to continuous 2, 3, or 4 train operation using DCC and it's still just a 4 x 8.
Anyway - more than just selling track and turnouts, many of the Atlas plans are just trying to sell the turntables, too - with just one or two stub tracks connected.
I can probably scan or photo the complete pages for you if you're really, really interested, but most of these books can be had for about $5-$10 on ebay if you look. I was going to build the Berkshire Valley Route in the King Size book when I got back into it a couple of years ago, but then found out about DCC wireless, Wi-Fi and double-decker, around-the-wall layouts. Even a single-level, around-the-wall layout in a small room, using DCC, would be superior to just about any of the Atlas plans these days. The books all need massive re-writes to bring them in line with current DCC layout thinking and practices.
P.S. I watched that video the other night. The guy who bought that layout is more than happy with it. Good for him, but it might be better to study a bit more if you're actually going to build one from scratch.
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Post by Bergerac on Mar 3, 2023 9:58:20 GMT -8
Many thanks for all your extremely interesting answers. Very appreciated. I bought the track plan from Atlas ($1.99) but unfortunately it's an .atps file and I don't know how it works...  |
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Post by Bergerac on Mar 3, 2023 10:05:16 GMT -8
I'm not a real beginner (I'm 65) and I've been playing with little trains since I was 15. But I'm still learning everyday.
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ictom
Junior Member
Posts: 83
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Post by ictom on Mar 3, 2023 10:10:03 GMT -8
Many thanks for all your extremely interesting answers. Very appreciated. I bought the track plan from Atlas ($1.99) but unfortunately it's an .atps file and I don't know how it works... I believe the *.atps file is meant to be loaded in their SCARM version of track planning software. |
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Post by Bergerac on Mar 3, 2023 10:24:22 GMT -8
You're absolutely right ! I downloaded the free version of SCARM. Then I opened it with SCARM.
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ictom
Junior Member
Posts: 83
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Post by ictom on Mar 3, 2023 10:35:37 GMT -8
You're absolutely right ! I downloaded the free version of SCARM. Then I opened it with SCARM. You need the book. It has detailed diagrams and instructions on the benchwork. Although granted, it's just a plywood box with legs. |
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Post by riogrande on Mar 3, 2023 11:02:25 GMT -8
You're absolutely right ! I downloaded the free version of SCARM. Then I opened it with SCARM. You need the book. It has detailed diagrams and instructions on the benchwork. Although granted, it's just a plywood box with legs. That's something anyone with a bit of woodworking experience should be able to build. |
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ictom
Junior Member
Posts: 83
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Post by ictom on Mar 3, 2023 11:13:39 GMT -8
Yep, I said, "granted ..."
However, the OP hasn't really specified DC vs DCC. The actual book also has all the wiring details and the blocks laid out. That's pretty useful.
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Post by Bergerac on Mar 4, 2023 2:25:02 GMT -8
Many thanks for all your inputs. Much appreciated. I have a big problem: it is very difficult (even impossible in fact) to find the Atlas H0 track in France. So I decided to use our most common track brand in Europe: Peco. I started to draw my own plan with Anyrail (I'm not a big fan of Scarm). I use the Scarm picture as a backdrop in Anyrail. Then I tried to make my plan with Pecol track as you can see below. All your comments, advices and criticisms will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.   |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Mar 4, 2023 7:53:47 GMT -8
It looks like you did a fine version of recreating the Atlas plan. I recommend double-checking the clearances between tracks. I also recommend running nothing longer than 60'. Or maybe even 50'. That will still give you a lot of options for locomotives and rolling stock. If you feel you MUST run passenger cars, perhaps you could use "Old Time" cars. Bachmann makes some nice steam locomotives that could pull them.
The wiring might not match up with the Atlas version. For that matter, you may desire to run DCC, and that would change things greatly.
I do notice the turntable is gone. I do believe I would at least have a switch in that location, at the least. Atlas turntables are available on Ebay. They only accept a maximum of 9". I assume you can add another switch elsewhere to add a little "spice" to the trackplan. I'd make that one a hand-throw, like a real one would be--one less thing to wire.
It looks like a lot of fun to build. I hope you enjoy doing so. Figuring out the buildings and their placement, especially.
Ed
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Post by Bergerac on Mar 4, 2023 9:46:15 GMT -8
Just for the fun I built a small version (39"x73" / H0 scale) of this layout. Not really the same but I keep the spirit of the big version if you see what I mean.  |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Mar 4, 2023 9:55:00 GMT -8
I do. And you did.
Ed
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Post by lvrr325 on Mar 4, 2023 13:33:55 GMT -8
I would run a train on it just like that and see how well it holds interest that way. If you find you're wanting to run two trains or more easily change the train than picking it up each time, you can make the changes before there's any scenery in the way.
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Post by Baikal on Mar 5, 2023 8:13:49 GMT -8
There is going to be some sharp curves on that layout, for sure 18" radius curves, for what it's worth. While longer cars might be able to run on it without derailing, 4-axle diesels and cars limited to 60' or less in length would work the best and look the best. For that reason, it would be a nice plan to blow up to a 5 x 10 or 5 x 12 area and get wider curves and more room for structures.
In HO scale, one option is to rip the 4' x 8' plywood lengthwise into two 2' x 8' pieces then join the pieces in an "L" shape. Or end-to-end if you have room. Tradeoff is lack of roundy-round vs increased realism.
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Post by Christian on Mar 6, 2023 7:20:36 GMT -8
Hello everyone ! Due to my terrifying incompetence in computers (or, maybe, this device hates me - only God knows), my "Bergerac" account no longer works at all. Having found no better solution, I registered again on this excellent forum. I know it's against the Law to have two accounts...  Anyway, I built another layout (kinda sort of mockup). This is my very personnal version of this famous Atlas layout (dimensions: 3"4"x7'8").  |
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ictom
Junior Member
Posts: 83
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Post by ictom on Mar 7, 2023 5:14:11 GMT -8
Who makes that track?
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Post by jonklein611 on Mar 7, 2023 6:03:26 GMT -8
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Post by Christian on Mar 7, 2023 8:53:55 GMT -8
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Post by michaele on Mar 11, 2023 7:23:23 GMT -8
I built the Great Eastern Trunk back in the early 80s. It was about my third or fourth railroad, but my first that I could run two trains at once. I had a lot of fun with scenery and operation with that railroad and it taught me a lot about track and roadbed laying. I've since moved on to bigger and better, but it was a good learning experience.
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Post by Arcandier on May 24, 2023 2:33:46 GMT -8
Hello there,
My old "Christian" account no longer works for some totally mysterious reasons. So I'm back with a new account and some updates. The original CCRR has been extended to a larger version (82"3/4 x 43"1/4). Now it calls the New Constantly Changing Railroad (NCCRR). Hope you enjoy the videos. Thanks for watching !
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Post by Arcandier on May 24, 2023 2:39:39 GMT -8
Just for the fun...  |
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Post by michaele on May 24, 2023 9:07:24 GMT -8
I think the biggest problem is you keep forgetting your log-in credentials. You have multiple accounts at several forms I am a member of.
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