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Post by ssw on Mar 31, 2023 4:51:40 GMT -8
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Post by riogrande on Mar 31, 2023 5:02:22 GMT -8
I am reticent to purchase anything Broadway, unless there is no other maker. When BLI came out recently with the SP SD45 with the SP details, I was tempted. Tempted because so far, no one has offered the most common SP SD45 with all the details yet. The closest anyone has come was Athearn who offered it but with the wrong plow and the long hood was based on the RP shell with less than stellar door and latch detail. So I asked a trusted SP expert about the new BLI SP SD45 and was advised to pass and to wait for ScaleTrains version, which should be offered eventually. Take your time ScaleTrains? But with Paul Ellis on staff (a big SP fan), I imaging patience will pay off. So I'm hoping when the next run of ScaleTrains SD45's, it will include the classic SP SD45, and of course D&RGW. Of those come out, I better save a lot of pennies! Anyway, I've digressed. Apologies.
The only BLI loco's I have bought are the Utah RSD15's, and because no one else offered them in plastic. GP20's have been offered by P2K and I believe later from Walthers. Keep in mind many are not happy with the electronics in BLI locos, which is why it's good news they are planning to offer DCC ready versions in the future. But for past offerings, the electronics are something of an issue. Some rip them out and replace the BLI decoder with a reputable name decoder (ST, ESU, TCS etc). So it seems annoying to pay for a dcc/sound loco and have to pay even more to replace the electronics.
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Post by cera2254 on Mar 31, 2023 5:27:59 GMT -8
I think it looks okay really. I too wonder about the nose being off but maybe that’s just an optical illusion. It sure doesn’t look like it has enough pitch. Of course with Broadway they butchered the draft gear area but that is how they always do their diesels.
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Post by fishbelly on Mar 31, 2023 5:30:59 GMT -8
I bought three of them. I received a message that they will arrive at my dealer this weekend. You are correct about your concerns. The cab widow is short. Most likely because what you state as the nose being to tall. Other than that, the model looks to be OK. I prefer it over the P2K because the BLI model appears to be a bit more robust in appearance. To date, I cannot think of ANY model locomotive that does not have an issue or two. Just depends on what issues you are willing to accept or reject.
I bought the Arizona & California ones because they had the features I wanted. That being no winterization hatch. I will be stripping them and repainting them into CPT&C. They will get new fans all the way across the top of the hood. One will get a couple different replacement fans just to mix things up a little.
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Post by grabirons on Apr 1, 2023 4:24:09 GMT -8
The only broadway item I have is one of their cryogenic tank cars, otherwise their products do not appeal to me. Back when they had that blue line I almost bought an sd40-2. Might be interested when they start offering then dcc ready again soon, but not sure.
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Post by cemr5396 on Apr 1, 2023 7:04:53 GMT -8
The only broadway item I have is one of their cryogenic tank cars, otherwise their products do not appeal to me. Back when they had that blue line I almost bought an sd40-2. Might be interested when they start offering then dcc ready again soon, but not sure. I wouldn't. Having seen one of their SD40-2s up close they are terrible models. Like the actual molding of the body is bad. The gaps between the hood doors on the sides are canyon sized and IMO they did a poor job of replicating the radiator intakes and fans. The Bachmann SD40-2, which is a shameless copy of the Blue Box model, is unironically a better model. |
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Post by unittrain on Apr 1, 2023 8:00:54 GMT -8
I got only a few BLI locomotives haven't ran them yet as the layout is under construction. I have a NYC GP20 and a Pennsy SD9 was considering an SD40 but no pictures yet! For as much as they're asking for a DCC ready unit they need to provide pictures.🤨
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2023 8:50:28 GMT -8
I have the Santa Fe SD45, and it is indeed very nice, but maybe not quite as nice as the ST version which has more underbody details. The Santa Fe paint colors are almost a dead perfect match between BLI and ST. My (modern era) son wants to keep the ST unit because it has operating tri color class lights, whereas BLI has only the white. The BLI unit is very nice indeed; ST rooftop fans are a little more nicely done but are also more delicate. If you are going to handle the model a lot, the BLI rooftop fans will probably take a little more handling as they appear slightly heavier--but they aren't bad. They are metal.
Overall the diesel looks pretty good. I know some don't like the coupler pockets which seem to mimic Kato, but next to/behind the snowplow, are they really that noticeable? Well, not to me and not on a dark blue pilot. BLI does not apply grey paint to the air filters and screens; ST and others do grey the rear intake grills a bit which helps them to look slightly more "realistic", but they aren't really molded all that much better than BLI's if you subtract the painting.
The BLI SD45 runs better (more quietly with the sound turned off and more smoothly) than the ST unit, absolutely without question. However, ST Loksound 5.0 sounds are better but still need to be equalized and cleaned up, and their speakers should be replaced.
Neither of these units sounds as good imo as the ST 2021 run ES44C4. That was a homerun for impressive sound quality.
I can agree with those who like the way the BLI diesels run (with the sound turned off).
I owned the BLI GP-20's. One had a bit of foam sticking out from under the front top of cab piece, which is molded separately in order to allow them to model the different versions of the GP-20's. That made that piece a little crooked and did not look like an easy fix. It's a very nice engine indeed and I only really sold the pair because we are changing into the modern widecab era, such that all my blue and yellow diesels will be going with the exception of the Atlas U28CG, which is neat, and the one ST SD45.
The rather thick factory painting on the BLI GP-20 is imo not quite as well done as on the SD45; between the two units the BLI SD45 looks slightly better overall as a model. That is to my eyes. It looks much more realistic overall than the P2K GP20 model.
They also run well in plain dc.
YMMV.
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Post by grahamline on Apr 1, 2023 11:23:22 GMT -8
There are both high-hood and low-hood P2K GP20 units running on my neighborhood model railroad. After due attention to detailing with MU fittings, whistles, LEDs, and axle gears, I don't think anything better is available. Their decoders are TCS A4X units, and there is no more that $70 invested in each. Maybe Scale Trains will pop out a 20 after the GP30 excitement fades. Same power chassis*.
*See below. GP20 was shorter. Will have to check my P2K 20s vs 30s to see if LifeLike made the same distinction.
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Post by fishbelly on Apr 1, 2023 12:05:49 GMT -8
No, the power chassis is not the same. The GP30 rear truck is moved aft one scale foot. The GP7 thru 20 have equally spaced trucks.
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Post by wp8thsub on Apr 1, 2023 13:12:03 GMT -8
Having seen one of their SD40-2s up close they are terrible models. Like the actual molding of the body is bad. The gaps between the hood doors on the sides are canyon sized and IMO they did a poor job of replicating the radiator intakes and fans. I used to have one of the Broadway SD40-2s, which was given to me by someone who won it at a raffle and decided better of it. I had to gut the factory electronics and do a fair amount of work to make it run reliably, but it eventually became a very good performer. I've since given it away. The tooling is indeed awful. Once I had the BLI model apart, it was obvious how it was cribbed from Kato, as the inaccuracies from the Kato SD40-2 shell were reproduced, and there was plenty inside the shell to indicate it was copied from Kato in places where you normally can't see. That's in addition to the very poor factory lettering. Why BLI would back engineer so much from another manufacturer while making it worse in nearly every way is among the mysteries of life. I've seen the latest SD45s and GP20s in person, and they look much better than the old SD40-2. With the announcement of DCC-ready products, I may try something from a future run. |
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Post by ssw on Apr 1, 2023 14:25:40 GMT -8
Thanks- I'm aware of the craptacular BLI electronics - I've got several RSD-15's and a Milwaukee S-3. If I get one, it'd be a gut and replace with Loksound. I need to gut/replace the S-3 - it's pretty bad. I'm still on the fence - I've got a couple of the Proto SSW GP20's, but was hoping to get a renumbered one without having to do a bunch of work because the UDE light on the Proto is about O scale in size, and I'd have to repaint the handrails along with a couple other things. Alas I think my decision has been made for me - the shop I deal with let just me know my pair of MTH Little Joe's came in (I model both the SSW and the Milwaukee) so, the $$$ that could have gone to another 20 just went to some Joes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2023 19:22:43 GMT -8
I did own the UP 4-12-2 brass hybrid and it was fantastic.
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Post by sd80mac on Apr 3, 2023 7:55:40 GMT -8
Having seen one of their SD40-2s up close they are terrible models. Like the actual molding of the body is bad. The gaps between the hood doors on the sides are canyon sized and IMO they did a poor job of replicating the radiator intakes and fans. I used to have one of the Broadway SD40-2s, which was given to me by someone who won it at a raffle and decided better of it. I had to gut the factory electronics and do a fair amount of work to make it run reliably, but it eventually became a very good performer. I've since given it away. The tooling is indeed awful. Once I had the BLI model apart, it was obvious how it was cribbed from Kato, as the inaccuracies from the Kato SD40-2 shell were reproduced, and there was plenty inside the shell to indicate it was copied from Kato in places where you normally can't see. That's in addition to the very poor factory lettering. Why BLI would back engineer so much from another manufacturer while making it worse in nearly every way is among the mysteries of life. I've seen the latest SD45s and GP20s in person, and they look much better than the old SD40-2. With the announcement of DCC-ready products, I may try something from a future run. Historically they have always really phoned it in with their diesels, especially the hood units. |
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Post by bnsf971 on Apr 4, 2023 16:28:28 GMT -8
If you have your heart set on the sound being somewhat like what you might expect to hear out of a real GP20, I think you'll be disappointed. I'm pretty sure the sound is a non-turbo 567.
The RSD15 is similar, it has the Alco 244 sound instead of the 251.
For someone that's been around the real thing a lot, it sticks out like a sore--ear.
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Post by fishbelly on Apr 4, 2023 18:31:44 GMT -8
If you have your heart set on the sound being somewhat like what you might expect to hear out of a real GP20, I think you'll be disappointed. I'm pretty sure the sound is a non-turbo 567. The RSD15 is similar, it has the Alco 244 sound instead of the 251. For someone that's been around the real thing a lot, it sticks out like a sore--ear. And this is why I will be pulling the electronics out and putting a Loksound decoder in mine with a 567D2 sound file. |
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Post by lvrr325 on Apr 4, 2023 19:15:43 GMT -8
Proto had done the GP7, 9 and 18 before (and after) the GP20 so I would imagine they share some components. Whether or not the chassis are shared, hard to say, there are differences even in different runs of the same model of engine - the RI GP7s I bought to put the chassis under MEC shells the short end inner weight is taller on the RI units and not sure the MEC shells will fit.
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Post by packer on Apr 5, 2023 8:25:39 GMT -8
I’m curious how good of a runner after removing the fire hazard they call paragon) and how good is the shell on these? Kinda looking to upgrade. (Not that the Proto is bad) There are both high-hood and low-hood P2K GP20 units running on my neighborhood model railroad. After due attention to detailing with MU fittings, whistles, LEDs, and axle gears, I don't think anything better is available. Their decoders are TCS A4X units, and there is no more that $70 invested in each. Maybe Scale Trains will pop out a 20 after the GP30 excitement fades. Same power chassis*. * See below. GP20 was shorter. Will have to check my P2K 20s vs 30s to see if LifeLike made the same distinction.I think GP35 would make more sense. Not certain but it looks like some bits might be the same. |
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Post by fishbelly on Apr 9, 2023 17:52:26 GMT -8
Tomorrow the three GP20's I ordered are supposed to arrive. Looking forward to getting them.
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sd40x
New Member
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Post by sd40x on Apr 10, 2023 7:06:07 GMT -8
I noticed the P2K GP20’s dynamic brake bulge is too long. The P2K GP9 phase II is the best tooled version of the P2K GP9-18’s as some of you already know. The rest of the P2K GP20 looks pretty good. At least they added the step in the low nose on the engineers side that the 18’s didn’t have. The cool thing I’ve found is that the P2K GP9-18 shells fit nicely over the Athearn genesis GP9-18 underframes. But…. Maybe the BLI GP20’s will prove to be the new best option.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Apr 10, 2023 7:48:07 GMT -8
Looking over the part numbers for LifeLike diesel production, they can be divided into 4 digit and 5 digit groups. It appears the 4 digit group precedes the 5 digit.
These are the 4 digit models: BL2, E8, FA-2, GP18, GP20 and SD7.
So the GP18/20's were done before the 7's and 9's.
Ed
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Post by Baikal on Apr 10, 2023 7:57:28 GMT -8
I noticed the P2K GP20’s dynamic brake bulge is too long. The P2K GP9 phase II is the best tooled version of the P2K GP9-18’s as some of you already know. The rest of the P2K GP20 looks pretty good. At least they added the step in the low nose on the engineers side that the 18’s didn’t have. The cool thing I’ve found is that the P2K GP9-18 shells fit nicely over the Athearn genesis GP9-18 underframes. But…. Maybe the BLI GP20’s will prove to be the new best option.
Can you explain about the prototype vs. P2K dynamic brake bulge lengths? Is the P2K GP20 DB longer than the Phase III GP9?
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Post by wmcbride on Apr 10, 2023 8:44:20 GMT -8
I've always liked the GP20 and have owned a few Proto GP20s over the years. I did not buy a BLI GP20 based on some early reviews. I was interested to see Broadway announced a stealth GP30. MSRP is supposed to be $299 and I found one discounted preorder price at $219: hogtrainz.com/shop/product-category/broadway-ltd-ho-scale-gp30-locomotives-stealth-series/I really like my Scale Trains DRGW GP30 which I bought for $194 (DCC-ready). I have my doubts BLI will surpass the ST model and price ... but one never knows. Bill McBride |
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Post by riogrande on Apr 10, 2023 9:58:27 GMT -8
Not having followed BLI, I didn't realize they were doing GP30's. It looks like BLI is duplicating two D&RGW road numbers done by ScaleTrains, apparently as-delivered and with the low nose signal light, but sans snow plow. I've already thrown my hat in with ScaleTrains and some of them are fairly close to the late end of my modeling period. Modelers who are looking for early-mid 1960's D&RGW GP30's may be interested although as Bill noted, one never knows till they are out and properly reviewed.
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Post by fishbelly on Apr 10, 2023 10:38:05 GMT -8
If BLI would put some effort into their truck side frames. I would buy their GP30. Um, maybe.
It appears that when new B truck models come out that require new tooling. The manufacturers are not putting any effort into the detail level on their side frames. More like an after thought or lets just get it done. There are only two companies that actually ever did. Athearn and Kato with Kato being the best of them all. I just got my GP20's today and the side frames are aweful. I am going to see if I can adapt the Athearn side frames or if it would be even possible. The Kato side frames. It would be even better if I could just put the whole Kato truck under them.
As I mentioned, I received my three BLI GP20's today. Aside from the side frames, it is not a bad model. It is useable and even if I cannot do anything about the side frames, I think they will pass OK when cleaned up and repainted black. The model runs VERY smooth. I am going to rip out the electronics and put in an ESU Loksound system. The BLI system is really rough sounding. This model will really benefit from a good set of Cannon fan kits. All across the top. The detail level is really nice on the shell. The short low hood IS a bit tall which makes the front window short, but I can live with that. Nothing I can do about it. The model is sharp looking. The packaging is really good. All the handrail stanchions stand up straight and the rails run straight. no wavy lines or lean ins on any of them. That includes the deck ends. Perfectly straight. No glue blobs anywhere either. The lift rings are nice, but will get replaced with Plano rings. Sand fill hatches will get cut off and replaced with a Details West part. Oh yeah. BLI opted to model the hand brake in the parked with brakes applied position. The chain and ball are all the way down. I will fix that too. Etched windshield wipers will be replaced with DA wipers. Horn will be moved and the firecracker antenna will be replaced with a Sinclair antenna. naturally the couplers will be replaced with Kadee scale head couplers and probably relocated further back in the draft gear box.
Overall I really do like this model and believe they will look great in CPT&C paint. I will most likely start on them when I get my F-units finished.
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Post by tony on Apr 10, 2023 19:58:55 GMT -8
If they could make the coupler facade a bit larger I can install two couplers.
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Post by tony on Apr 10, 2023 20:01:31 GMT -8
Looks like the shell is not fully seated on the chassis, but all the wheels are on the track this time.
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sd40x
New Member
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Post by sd40x on Apr 10, 2023 20:08:00 GMT -8
Explaining the P2K GP20 longer db blister: On the P2K GP20 if you look at the center grill area that is between its two bulges on each side it is longer than the P2K phase II GP9. The P2K phase II GP9 is P2K/ Walthers best and finest example of the first gen GP series they have. The phase III GP9 was done after the GP18 and it’s good but not as correct as their later phase II. So I compare all of the other P2K first gen GP details to the phase II. It’s easy to tell the GP20 blister is longer than the rest of the P2K GP7-18’s. It shouldn’t be. They’re all the same size / length db blisters on the real GP7-20’s. It’s not enough to really bother me. The P2K GP20 is still very nice especially on a Genesis GP7-18 frame.
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Post by Baikal on Apr 11, 2023 7:05:24 GMT -8
Explaining the P2K GP20 longer db blister: On the P2K GP20 if you look at the center grill area that is between its two bulges on each side it is longer than the P2K phase II GP9. The P2K phase II GP9 is P2K/ Walthers best and finest example of the first gen GP series they have. The phase III GP9 was done after the GP18 and it’s good but not as correct as their later phase II. So I compare all of the other P2K first gen GP details to the phase II. It’s easy to tell the GP20 blister is longer than the rest of the P2K GP7-18’s. It shouldn’t be. They’re all the same size / length db blisters on the real GP7-20’s. It’s not enough to really bother me. The P2K GP20 is still very nice especially on a Genesis GP7-18 frame.
I hadn't noticed that. Is it fixed on later P2K GP20s? The current Walthers units look ok, same DBs as the GP9.
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wsor
Full Member
The Route of the Ruptured Duck
Posts: 144
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Post by wsor on Apr 11, 2023 17:35:18 GMT -8
Explaining the P2K GP20 longer db blister: On the P2K GP20 if you look at the center grill area that is between its two bulges on each side it is longer than the P2K phase II GP9. The P2K phase II GP9 is P2K/ Walthers best and finest example of the first gen GP series they have. The phase III GP9 was done after the GP18 and it’s good but not as correct as their later phase II. The P2K GP9 phase III dynamic grill doesn't extend down far enough. It should come down to the doors, but curiously stops short. The GP18 grill isn't all that good either. The Mainline GP9 is also excellent in the dynamic area. |
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