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Post by linessouth on Apr 14, 2023 14:51:27 GMT -8
I noticed these have come in at MB Klein in recent weeks. Only one of the South Shore and original Milwaukee Road paint schemes left in stock: www.modeltrainstuff.com/search?search_query_adv=Little%20Joe#/filter:inventory_level:1:*Anyone know if there is any improvement in detail or performance from earlier MTH runs (from a decade ago)? I thought ScaleTrains had obtained the tooling for most of the MTH HO stuff and they would eventually do their own version of these - hopefully with better detail? Rich |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Apr 14, 2023 16:21:44 GMT -8
The Milwaukee ones look pretty sharp. The lack of nice looking pre-fab catenary tends to keep me away from electrics. If some ever does the GN Y-1's, though, I'm totally in:  Ed |
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Post by crblue on Apr 14, 2023 18:03:40 GMT -8
Ed, You'd think that someone would try to mass-produce it. Kato sets a good example for N scale, and I doubt it would be very difficult to make some NEC catenary poles. They're such simple designs and the PRR is popular enough, I never understood why no one bothered to just make them. If you can 3d print, you might be able to find some on thingverse or shapeways. |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Apr 14, 2023 19:16:32 GMT -8
A possible problem with 3d printing the poles is the strength. Or perhaps "brittleness" is the better word.
A very long time ago, a friend did German. And so he had catenary. I recall it being pretty much "snap together". Surely kinda crude, but in the last 40 years, improvements should have happened.
Ed
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Post by slowfreight on Apr 14, 2023 20:11:03 GMT -8
I just saw these. Are they not done by ScaleTrains? I wasn't sure what was sold as far as tooling, and had no idea these were coming.
A year or so ago, I snagged a Milwaukee Little Joe because of their raw sex appeal, but would happily trade it for a Little Train That Could" CSS 800 series...hint, hint.
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Post by Mr. Trainiac on Apr 14, 2023 20:41:49 GMT -8
I just saw these. Are they not done by ScaleTrains? I wasn't sure what was sold as far as tooling, and had no idea these were coming. A year or so ago, I snagged a Milwaukee Little Joe because of their raw sex appeal, but would happily trade it for a Little Tron That Could" CSS 800 series...hint, hint. These may be MTH stragglers? They are advertised as MTH models online, and they don't appear on the scaletrains website either. They still have MTH ProtoSound, and on the original announcement, Scaletrains said they would refit ex-MTH with ESU. Scaletrains seems like they bought all the MTH HO tooling, and their announcement says 'electric locomotives and subway cars'. MTH only has a few HO electric locomotives, so I'm assuming scaletrains controls the Little Joe tooling now too. The Bi-Polar and the GG1 are the only other MTH electric locomotives I can think of. |
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Post by voyager989 on Apr 14, 2023 20:44:39 GMT -8
When MTH sold off their HO line, it was announced that projects already in the pipeline would be completed and come out as MTH. I believe these are the last product that MTH HO will release.
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Post by schroed2 on Apr 14, 2023 21:36:06 GMT -8
A very long time ago, a friend did German. And so he had catenary. I recall it being pretty much "snap together". Surely kinda crude, but in the last 40 years, improvements should have happened. Ed if you want finer catenary (which is possible with a diameter of 0.3mm for the overhead line, even in a modular environment), you will still have do to a lot of work yourself (or find a friend who is doing it for/with you :  . the readily available solutions are still quite crude, IMHO. This refers to almost all prototypes for catenary around the world. |
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Post by wagnersteve on Apr 15, 2023 1:47:01 GMT -8
April 15, 2023, starting about 5:30 a.m.
I lived in Northeast Philadelphia until the summer during which became seven years old, then in a suburb just west of the city. Until 1960, I walked or rode public transportation -- suburban and long distance trains, nearly all electrified, trolley cars, interurbans, trolley buses and regular diesel buses, -- or rode in very crowded autos belonging to relatives. One of my younger brothers, who never actually lived in the City of Brotherly Love, is even more of a "traction" enthusiast than I am. He regularly does volunteer work at a trolley museum in a state adjacent to the one in which he lives, and he constructs the overhead wiring for his HO traction layout. My standard joke about that is that he must be part spider.
In our suburban public junior high school 1958-1961, all boys had to take two years of shop (one semester each of wood, metal, electrical and print) and also mechanical drawing; all girls had to take home economics. The only shop course I was good at was print shop, in which we set type by hand. Metal shop involved soldering using irons heated in small gas-fired ovens. Electric shop required a lot of splicing -- no wire nuts in use then and there -- demonstrated by a teacher with enormous hands that hid what he was doing while we all crowded around to watch.
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Post by Baikal on Apr 15, 2023 7:43:29 GMT -8
A very long time ago, a friend did German. And so he had catenary. I recall it being pretty much "snap together". Surely kinda crude, but in the last 40 years, improvements should have happened. Ed if you want finer catenary (which is possible with a diameter of 0.3mm for the overhead line, even in a modular environment), you will still have do to a lot of work yourself (or find a friend who is doing it for/with you : . the readily available solutions are still quite crude, IMHO. This refers to almost all prototypes for catenary around the world.
I'd like to have some catenary or even single-wire overhead. But most HO scale commercial products are 2x or more oversized, especially the European stuff. I don't think I've ever seen a Euro-layout with anything close to scale catenary. Some of the best scale fittings are here www.proto87.com/Overhead_catenary_poles_and_wires.html Lots of work, even for simple trolley overhead. |
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Post by littlejoee76 on Apr 16, 2023 3:42:59 GMT -8
As I model the NP and Milwaukee, principally in Montana in 1969 (but I have alternate stock for other periods and Washington state), having catenary was absolutely essential. Because Milw's encumbrance- the distance between the sagging catenary wire and the contact trolley wire- is quite narrow, compared with the Pennsy for instance, I settled on Viessman N scale catenary pieces, though I model in HO. The longest section they do is 222mm (part 4331) which on my 30 inch radius curves gives the ideal zig zag off the centre line (7mm IIRC). I believe the wire section is 0.3mm. The poles are bamboo BBQ skewers with brass rod arms and Rix crossarms for the signal and bus wires based on plans in Noel Holley's book, The Milwaukee Electrics. 140 x 3mm scales up perfectly to 40 feet tall and 10 inch diameter. The contact wire height varies from 84mm over the railhead (24 feet) down to 68 mm through a tunnel which is just able to skim above the auto roofs on a loaded trilevel autorack. Most visitors duck when they first see that- it gives every impression of a camel passing through the eye of a needle. The single track sections of about 10 feet has been in place for 10 years but the yard with 3-track spans is still to be completed- the poles and spans are in but I've yet to hang wire, pending finishing the scenery behind it. Custom Model Railroads released a pair of kits of the distinctive brick substations just before the pandemic, in both the regular flat top and snow-zone gabled versions in both HO and N. I was able to find space for one retrospectively by quarrying out a foam mountainside and it's a super enhancement to the layout. If could post photos, I would.
I never thought much of MTHs Joes. They are a bodge of detail variation, with Deer Lodge shops' tinkering subtly changing things every two or three years. I do have one, the 50s maroon belt version, intending to pull an Oly Hi consist but it's a lemon and doesn't stay on the track in spite or because of the pilot truck and deck being a separate part from the main frame. They did a better job on the Bipolars, but their electronics are fragile and the paint could be better- eg the black pinstripe around the edge of the maroon belt is missing and the edges are just fuzzy enough to deter me from adding it. Bizarrley, the sound file has a diesel engine on it but fortunately it's possible to kill that (being gearless, the Bipolars were almost silent) and retain the bell and horn.
Neill Horton
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Post by edwardsutorik on Apr 16, 2023 8:02:35 GMT -8
Neill,
Thanks for the post, and the detailed information.
If I'm ever "forced" to buy a Y-1 or two, I do believe I'll be using this as guidance.
Ed
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Post by sd80mac on Apr 17, 2023 11:47:58 GMT -8
A friend models the MILW's Pacific extension and has had nothing but problems with his MTH Little Joes and Bipolars. Neither run worth a darn.
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Post by ChessieFan1978 on Apr 17, 2023 13:16:58 GMT -8
A friend models the MILW's Pacific extension and has had nothing but problems with his MTH Little Joes and Bipolars. Neither run worth a darn. Yeah Bill Heiden has said the same thing about MTH Milwaukee Electrics. But supposedly it's the MTH electronics according to Milwaukee Modeler Jerry Wikstrom. Gut them and install new electronics and they run great. I have a PSC Iron Horse Brass Little Joe that is having DCC and Sound installed. Hopefully it will be making it's Maiden Voyage on Bill's Milwaukee Road layout this summer. |
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Post by riogrande on Apr 17, 2023 13:52:19 GMT -8
Bills layout is really nice. I've watched some of his videos. Beautiful!
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Post by es80ac on Apr 17, 2023 14:22:54 GMT -8
Bills layout is really nice. I've watched some of his videos. Beautiful! I bought several of the Mth bipolars, they been running good for me. They don’t have a lot of pull for a die cast loco this size and certainly these many wheels. Does anyone know if Mth still support their products if anything does happen with the Little Joes, Bipolars or Alleghenies? |
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Post by ChessieFan1978 on Apr 17, 2023 16:58:03 GMT -8
Bills layout is really nice. I've watched some of his videos. Beautiful! I've been to Bill's at least 3x over the years, every visit is better than the last. I shot several videos (on my YouTube Channel) and have an album on my Flickr page of Bill's Layout. |
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Post by sd80mac on Apr 18, 2023 7:39:05 GMT -8
Bills layout is really nice. I've watched some of his videos. Beautiful! I bought several of the Mth bipolars, they been running good for me. They don’t have a lot of pull for a die cast loco this size and certainly these many wheels. Does anyone know if Mth still support their products if anything does happen with the Little Joes, Bipolars or Alleghenies? It sounds like no, they will no longer be supporting any of their HO products going forward. |
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Post by littlejoee76 on Apr 20, 2023 3:48:08 GMT -8
ChessieFan- thanks for putting the links on your posts. Bill Heiden's layout is a stunner. I know of another layout set between Avery and Deer Lodge, by Bill Barker of Hamilton MT (never visited but I was given a DVD from a Spokane club visit). Bill H has done a better job on the trestles (diagonal bracing only) and I suspect scale height. Which part of the country dose he reside?
Neill Horton
Cranleigh Surrey UK
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