|
|
Post by alcocentury on Nov 5, 2023 12:43:56 GMT -8
Did all/most grain elevators use grain dryers and/or surge tanks? I know that elevators could load "wet or dry" grain. The Model Railroader book doesn't go very deep into an explanation.
|
|
|
|
Post by ncrc5315 on Nov 5, 2023 13:19:08 GMT -8
Most grain elevators would have had a grain dryer of some type. Most elevators would have had to dry the grain before it was shipped out, unless it was being sold to a feedyard, but then more than likely the corn was sent right to the feedyard.
|
|
|
|
Post by cemr5396 on Nov 5, 2023 13:20:28 GMT -8
the MR book is really surface level at best. All very basic stuff, at least when it comes to the elevator side of things. There is quite a good bit of freight car information in there. yes. Grain MUST be properly dried to be stored long term. The possible consequences for not doing so run from mold (not great) to spontaneous combustion of the grain (really not great) and several more layers of unpleasantness in between. This is part of the reason grain dryers have become more prevalent at the farm level, first off grain is often being stored on farm longer than it used to be. Secondly, when the farmer sells his grain to the elevator he gets a better price if the elevator doesn't have to dry it themselves. that depends. Some have a dedicated bin feeding the dryer and some don't. Most elevators have some sort of weighing hopper or bin somewhere in the facility but it is usually associated with weighing outgoing shipments before they are loaded either into railcars or trucks, not the grain drying system. These days it's sometimes not even needed to have one, as there are systems that are capable of weighing the grain as it passes through the system rather than dumping it into a bin or hopper and weighing it in batches. That is technically true, but due to the reasons listed earlier shipping wet grain is usually avoided if at all possible. It costs a lot less to just dry it yourself rather than take the price hit at the other end. Not to mention that a lot of export terminals (or other end users) don't even have drying facilities, because it is basically a given that they should not be recieving wet grain in the first place. |
|
|
|
Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Nov 5, 2023 14:03:46 GMT -8
There has been a lot of "free" gobbamint money available that has aided most big or huge farmers to build huge new bins and drying equipment is part of the collection of stuff that they have. With huge propane tanks, as well, as there is little natural gas infrastructure in farm areas.
|
|
|
|
Post by alcocentury on Nov 5, 2023 14:27:05 GMT -8
Have grain dryer on the way. Surge tank a necessity as well? Am learning alot.
|
|
|
|
Post by alcocentury on Nov 5, 2023 14:46:57 GMT -8
Guess the proper terminology is "surge bin"
|
|
|
|
Post by ncrc5315 on Nov 5, 2023 15:53:08 GMT -8
Guess the proper terminology is "surge bin" Around here, they are know as holding bins, and yes you will need one to feed the dryer, as the grain will come in much faster then can be dried. Rule of thumb for a farm dryer, is to be able to dry in 24 hours, what can be harvested in 10 hours. Of course that will also depend on the moisture level that you start with. It will take more time to dry from 21% to 15.5%, then from 18% to 15.5%.
This site has some good information:
By the way, drying charges at the local elevator is, 6¢ per point of moisture, per bushel of corn, then 1.25% shrink per point of moisture on top of that.
|
|
|
|
Post by jeoffreythecat on Nov 5, 2023 15:57:50 GMT -8
One wet grain exception I can think of is a local "shuttle" type operation. Years ago, the Maryland & Delaware RR won a Golden Freight Car Award from Modern Railroad magazine. They shipped wet corn from a branch in the northern part of Maryland's Eastern Shore to another branch with Conrail being the middleman. I think it was going from a smaller Perdue facility to a larger Perdue facility so I presume the quick movement avoided any mold issues. I also presume it was being dried and/or processed at the larger facility.
|
|
|
|
Post by Baikal on Nov 5, 2023 16:12:08 GMT -8
There has been a lot of "free" gobbamint money available that has aided most big or huge farmers to build huge new bins and drying equipment is part of the collection of stuff that they have. With huge propane tanks, as well, as there is little natural gas infrastructure in farm areas.
The American economy and diet runs on corn-based ethanol and high-fructose corn sweetners.
|
|
|
|
Post by Baikal on Nov 5, 2023 16:15:05 GMT -8
Guess the proper terminology is "surge bin" Around here, they are know as holding bins, and yes you will need one to feed the dryer, as the grain will come in much faster then can be dried. Rule of thumb for a farm dryer, is to be able to dry in 24 hours, what can be harvested in 10 hours. Of course that will also depend on the moisture level that you start with. It will take more time to dry from 21% to 15.5%, then from 18% to 15.5%.
This site has some good information:
By the way, drying charges at the local elevator is, 6¢ per point of moisture, per bushel of corn, then 1.25% shrink per point of moisture on top of that.
I suppose there are optimum moisture levels for different grain uses. Too-dry grains could also be a problem. I'm guessing elevators have a way to control moisture levels, especially for big buyers?
Once, when I was working at Pan Am Rys, we had a feed shipper call and request that we stop a train that was en-route asap so that they could come out and take a sample of grain from a specific car before it was delivered to the consignee. A chicken ranch I believe. Not sure what they were checking for but we had the train stop at the nearest siding with vehicle access and someone came out and took a sample. No extra charge because good customer service was a priority.
People like to rag on Pan Am but the marketing and sales dept was top notch.
|
|
|
|
Post by ncrc5315 on Nov 6, 2023 16:51:25 GMT -8
Standard moisture, for corn in 15.5%. Wetter than that it won't keep, dryer, and your just losing bushels. Soybeans, the elevators will dock above 13%. That's the only two grains I really know about. When I was still feeding cattle, we would start combining at 22% to 25% moisture, but this would go into the Harvestores, which could store high moisture corn. Or it was run through a roller mill, then packed into a bunker silo, and covered with plastic.
|
|
|
|
Post by hudsonyard on Nov 6, 2023 17:33:30 GMT -8
There has been a lot of "free" gobbamint money available that has aided most big or huge farmers to build huge new bins and drying equipment is part of the collection of stuff that they have. With huge propane tanks, as well, as there is little natural gas infrastructure in farm areas.
The American economy and diet runs on corn-based ethanol and high-fructose corn sweetners.
separate the average american from ground beef and high fructose corn syrup for a couple weeks and they will confess to the sharon tate murders.
|
|
|
|
Post by lars on Dec 27, 2023 18:10:47 GMT -8
Around here, they are know as holding bins, and yes you will need one to feed the dryer, as the grain will come in much faster then can be dried. Rule of thumb for a farm dryer, is to be able to dry in 24 hours, what can be harvested in 10 hours. Of course that will also depend on the moisture level that you start with. It will take more time to dry from 21% to 15.5%, then from 18% to 15.5%.
This site has some good information:
By the way, drying charges at the local elevator is, 6¢ per point of moisture, per bushel of corn, then 1.25% shrink per point of moisture on top of that.
I suppose there are optimum moisture levels for different grain uses. Too-dry grains could also be a problem. I'm guessing elevators have a way to control moisture levels, especially for big buyers? Too dry is generally not a problem. But since you’re selling your bushels (a measure of volume) by the mass of grain delivered at a base moisture, anytime you’re too dry you’re giving away grain to the elevator (more grain and not enough water). Elevators can dry grain or blend too dry grain with that of a higher moisture content. Your Pan-am example could be for moisture, but I’m betting it was for toxins. Grains can develop certain molds in the field and the by-product of those molds are toxins that can do anything from slow weight gains to kill an animal. The tolerance levels vary by toxin and animals in which it’s being fed but some are as low as 20 parts per billion. |
|
|
|
Post by yeltonmodels on Dec 28, 2023 12:59:39 GMT -8
When Yelton Models brought out there Red X grain dryer this past summer we sure had learned a lot about the whole industry of grain drying. From a modeling side of a grain dryer the Walther's kit is a very small dryer which would dry 50 bushels and hour. The yelton Models red X dryer would dry upwards of 250 to 300 bushels an hour. We found pictures of a place in NE where they had 8 dryers in a row working to dry grain or corn. The best person to talk to about the grain industry in my opinion is Dave Zucker from Spring Creek Model Trains. This man had a business in building grain dryers nd grain bins for the industry and sure learned a lot from this man in a short period of time.
|
|
|
|
Post by keystonefarm on Dec 28, 2023 20:23:57 GMT -8
Did all/most grain elevators use grain dryers and/or surge tanks? I know that elevators could load "wet or dry" grain. The Model Railroader book doesn't go very deep into an explanation. Depends. I hauled grain in the mid 70's to the mid 80's. I hauled stone/sand during the spring and summer ,corn and beans in the fall and pulled tankers during the winter so I could keep busy !! From local farms to the Tidewater Grain elevator and Bunge both in Philadelphia Pa. Large facility ex PRR and RDG that also received grain by unit train. Most was loaded on ships for Europe and Russia. All the farmers I hauled for had their own grain dryers and a extra dump or flatbed trailer back then . That way I could show up with a empty dump trailer pick up the loaded one and they could load the empty one white I was on my way back to the elevator. Both the Tidewater and Bunge facilities had a scale/ dump platforms so almost any type of trailer could be used. All the facilities I used to haul to both Tidewater and Bunge both in Philadelphia are long gone. ------ Ken |
|
|
|
Post by lars on Dec 30, 2023 11:23:45 GMT -8
When Yelton Models brought out there Red X grain dryer this past summer we sure had learned a lot about the whole industry of grain drying. From a modeling side of a grain dryer the Walther's kit is a very small dryer which would dry 50 bushels and hour. The yelton Models red X dryer would dry upwards of 250 to 300 bushels an hour. We found pictures of a place in NE where they had 8 dryers in a row working to dry grain or corn. The best person to talk to about the grain industry in my opinion is Dave Zucker from Spring Creek Model Trains. This man had a business in building grain dryers nd grain bins for the industry and sure learned a lot from this man in a short period of time. You’re correct on the Walthers model. It would look fine on a small farm, but it’s way too small for a modern elevator. Nearly all elevators (and many large farms) are going to run a tower dryer which is continuous flow, whereas the Walthers dryer represents a unit that runs grain in batches. Grain is elevated to the top of the tower and is heated as it falls through it. A tower dryer in most cases will still have a wet bin feeding it. |
|
