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Post by delta767332er on Dec 9, 2023 23:18:37 GMT -8
This Rapido model is 13% more expensive than the new Tangent BSC 3350. As much as 42% more expensive if the Tangents are bought in bulk. Look at the pictures starting this thread of the sodium chlorate car and then go look at the pics of the Tangent hopper and you can have yourself some free entertainment for the evening. Or it might make you want to take a long walk off a short pier. Only for MSRP though. Rapido street price is around $45. Tangent dealer discounts are less, usually around 2 or 3 dollars below MSRP. I expect these new Tangent cars to be around $49 to $50 at most hobby shops. The Tangent cars are more expensive at the retail level, so the argument of Rapido giving less for a higher price doesn't really stand. Using the MSRP to compare two models is inaccurate because nobody is actually paying that amount. You can rework the argument into one of: "for only a few dollars more, you get a much better car from Tangent." That is still a reasonable opinion since the value of the Tangent car, considering the workmanship and detail quality, is generally worth the money. Completely untrue that nobody is paying that amount. Both offerings are available direct from Tangent and Rapido AT THOSE PRICES, and a not insignificant percentage of customers are paying THOSE PRICES for their cars. Certainly, a savvy and thrifty purchaser would be wise to get their Rapido cars at the cheapest price possible, because paying anything close to what you pay for a Tangent car is extremely unfortunate. There are lots of people "actually paying that amount" for Rapido products. I stand by my point that the price vs. quality is laughably stupid. |
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Post by protraindelayer on Dec 10, 2023 9:36:22 GMT -8
I think I'm rather average in my expectations. I want to receive fair market value. Rapido is priced well above fair market value. These Procor cars are delivering Model Power and Bachman quality. They're certainly not worth Moloco and Tangent prices.
I've purchased more than 2,000 freight cars during the past 10 years (not that I have a layout, lol). Rapido are the only ones that have left a bad taste. Rapido is the only manufacturer that I have cancelled my preorders. It's too bad, too, because they are making some prototypes I would like to have. But I don't like feeling that I've been cheated, so I will do without Rapido until they start caring about what they produce.
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Post by lvrr325 on Dec 10, 2023 23:51:58 GMT -8
Where are you seeing $45 on these cars? Because that seller is making zero on them. Mine are $54. I haven't rushed to start them on eBay because after the fees I don't know it's worth the hassle.
Tangent doesn't technically wholesale to dealers, anyone buying enough quantity gets a discounted price.
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mpi
Junior Member
Posts: 68 
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Post by mpi on Dec 11, 2023 2:21:25 GMT -8
Lombard Hobbies has them for $45.99
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Post by 690 on Dec 11, 2023 5:08:41 GMT -8
I got three for $42 each after the CAD to USD conversion from Otter Valley. Now if the US Post Office could do their job, and deliver them…
Also to the above poster saying these are Bachmann or Model Power quality… come on. They’re not Tangent level, but they’re far above Bachmann or Model Power level.
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Post by csxt8400 on Dec 11, 2023 15:59:52 GMT -8
Lombard Hobbies has them for $45.99 So after shipping it's over 60 bucks. I could get one Tangent, at list of 52.95, to me for 61.42. One discounted "down" to 46.99, other list price. Same end result if we round up. |
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Post by lvrr325 on Dec 12, 2023 0:13:44 GMT -8
Lombard Hobbies has them for $45.99 They're making four bucks a car. Or somewhere around 6.8% profit. I don't know how you keep the lights on doing that. |
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Post by cemr5396 on Dec 12, 2023 8:14:01 GMT -8
Lombard Hobbies has them for $45.99 They're making four bucks a car. Or somewhere around 6.8% profit. I don't know how you keep the lights on doing that. by selling an absolute TON of them. It's really not that difficult of an equation. Pretty much all the big online mail order sites have figured this out by now - if you make an item cheaper, you'll sell more of them. It doesn't matter if your profit margin per item is half as much if you sell twice as many of them. You still net the same profit in the end. |
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Post by atsf2333 on Dec 12, 2023 9:12:16 GMT -8
Pretty much all the big online mail order sites have figured this out by now - if you make an item cheaper, you'll sell more of them. It doesn't matter if your profit margin per item is half as much if you sell twice as many of them. You still net the same profit in the end. Sounds like the old line: " We may lose a little money on every transaction, but we make it up in volume!" |
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Post by atsf2333 on Dec 12, 2023 9:18:42 GMT -8
Pretty much all the big online mail order sites have figured this out by now - if you make an item cheaper, you'll sell more of them. It doesn't matter if your profit margin per item is half as much if you sell twice as many of them. You still net the same profit in the end. Sounds like the old line: " We may lose a little money on every transaction, but we make it up in volume!" |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Dec 12, 2023 9:29:06 GMT -8
"What can you do for us if we order a LOT?"
Ed
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Dec 12, 2023 12:05:10 GMT -8
Only for MSRP though. Rapido street price is around $45. Tangent dealer discounts are less, usually around 2 or 3 dollars below MSRP. I expect these new Tangent cars to be around $49 to $50 at most hobby shops. The Tangent cars are more expensive at the retail level, so the argument of Rapido giving less for a higher price doesn't really stand. Using the MSRP to compare two models is inaccurate because nobody is actually paying that amount. You can rework the argument into one of: "for only a few dollars more, you get a much better car from Tangent." That is still a reasonable opinion since the value of the Tangent car, considering the workmanship and detail quality, is generally worth the money. Completely untrue that nobody is paying that amount. Both offerings are available direct from Tangent and Rapido AT THOSE PRICES, and a not insignificant percentage of customers are paying THOSE PRICES for their cars. Certainly, a savvy and thrifty purchaser would be wise to get their Rapido cars at the cheapest price possible, because paying anything close to what you pay for a Tangent car is extremely unfortunate. There are lots of people "actually paying that amount" for Rapido products. I stand by my point that the price vs. quality is laughably stupid. I feel kinda sorry for the schmucks that pay full retail for Bachmann on their website. |
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Post by csxt8400 on Dec 12, 2023 12:56:39 GMT -8
They make some money on shipping. $13.95 to ship one hopper isn't depleted on boxes and shrink wrap. Not saying they make a killing or anything, but Tangent can ship me one car for less than $8.50. Of course Tangent is direct, Tangent doesn't have the storefront, and I don't expect Lombard to meet that. But they give themselves room to make up some of the money for sure.
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Post by Christian on Dec 12, 2023 13:05:33 GMT -8
They make some money on shipping. $13.95 to ship one hopper isn't depleted on boxes and shrink wrap. Not saying they make a killing or anything, but Tangent can ship me one car for less than $8. Of course Tangent is direct, Tangent doesn't have the storefront, and I don't expect Lombard to meet that. But they give themselves room to make up some of the money for sure. Eight dollars including the labor time of someone to pull the merchandise, do the paperwork, package it up, and carry it to the loading dock? Yes, I agree that there is likely some slop in the shipping cost. But it might not be very much. |
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Post by csxt8400 on Dec 12, 2023 13:15:38 GMT -8
Yes, and I'm not mad about how Lombard does their rates. I'm just saying, Dave has employees too and is five dollars cheaper from a further distance.
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35eh
New Member
Posts: 26
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Post by 35eh on Dec 13, 2023 14:39:30 GMT -8
My 2 Rapido Procor NaClO3 hoppers arrived today with arrow straight handrails…I’m happy
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Post by lvrr325 on Dec 14, 2023 3:14:44 GMT -8
They're making four bucks a car. Or somewhere around 6.8% profit. I don't know how you keep the lights on doing that. by selling an absolute TON of them. It's really not that difficult of an equation. Pretty much all the big online mail order sites have figured this out by now - if you make an item cheaper, you'll sell more of them. It doesn't matter if your profit margin per item is half as much if you sell twice as many of them. You still net the same profit in the end. If I sell 10 orders then I spend 10-15 minutes per order packing them for around two-two and a half hours, depending how complicated the packing is. If I sell 20 orders I spend four to five hours working. That's more labor. Fortunately for me, I am just me, I am not paying someone $15.00 an hour plus to pack the items. At some point you cross a line where the labor eats up the profit. And that's just the labor, the finance charges for your card payment, the overhead to keep the lights on, etc. all isn't taken into account. |
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Dec 14, 2023 3:44:48 GMT -8
I spend 10-15 minutes per order packing them There's no way Lombard Hobbies or Tangent or any of the "big guys" are spending that much time per order. |
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Post by Baikal on Dec 14, 2023 4:55:57 GMT -8
by selling an absolute TON of them. It's really not that difficult of an equation. Pretty much all the big online mail order sites have figured this out by now - if you make an item cheaper, you'll sell more of them. It doesn't matter if your profit margin per item is half as much if you sell twice as many of them. You still net the same profit in the end. If I sell 10 orders then I spend 10-15 minutes per order packing them for around two-two and a half hours, depending how complicated the packing is. If I sell 20 orders I spend four to five hours working. That's more labor. Fortunately for me, I am just me, I am not paying someone $15.00 an hour plus to pack the items. At some point you cross a line where the labor eats up the profit. And that's just the labor, the finance charges for your card payment, the overhead to keep the lights on, etc. all isn't taken into account.
The more items you ship, the less time & money you spend per item. "Economies of scale".
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Post by gevohogger on Dec 14, 2023 5:00:04 GMT -8
by selling an absolute TON of them. It's really not that difficult of an equation. Pretty much all the big online mail order sites have figured this out by now - if you make an item cheaper, you'll sell more of them. It doesn't matter if your profit margin per item is half as much if you sell twice as many of them. You still net the same profit in the end. .... the overhead to keep the lights on, etc. You're got a store? Where is it, I'd like to visit. |
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Post by cemr5396 on Dec 14, 2023 9:20:34 GMT -8
If I sell 10 orders then I spend 10-15 minutes per order packing them for around two-two and a half hours, depending how complicated the packing is. If I sell 20 orders I spend four to five hours working. That's more labor. Fortunately for me, I am just me, I am not paying someone $15.00 an hour plus to pack the items. At some point you cross a line where the labor eats up the profit. And that's just the labor, the finance charges for your card payment, the overhead to keep the lights on, etc. all isn't taken into account. Stop trying to make direct comparisons between the 'Lombard/Otter Valley/MBKs' of the world and the 'one man shows'. It is not apples to apples. The big guys are operating in a completely different business environment than the small guys. Where the small guy may be working with a few thousand dollars worth of inventory at any one time, the big guys are working in the millions. Many of the small guys are hobbyists who happen to own businesses. The people who run the big time shops are business people who may or may not be modelers at all. It's not the same. |
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Post by cemr5396 on Dec 14, 2023 9:21:25 GMT -8
.... the overhead to keep the lights on, etc. You're got a store? Where is it, I'd like to visit. 5 bucks says the 'store' is in his basement. |
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Post by mlwlover on Dec 16, 2023 7:38:06 GMT -8
i just recieved my cars and overall i am quite impressed! the only issues that i have problems with are the crappy couplers and the coupler boxes are glued on crooked. i am glad they molded the end cages etc out of celcon. a lot of manufactures use ultra brittle styrene. i am going to have to get the coupler off somehow and remount them straight and my usual machining the ugly thick whheels down to code 75.
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Post by cp6027 on Dec 16, 2023 9:41:51 GMT -8
My three Rapido sodium chlorate covered hoppers arrived yesterday and I agree with other posters that they look better in person compared to the pictures at the start of the thread. I do think the two cars without handrails look better than the one with them. The one car with handrails is not missing any paint on the handrails and they are reasonably straight.
Much needed prototype for my modelled era/locale, so I'm thankful that somebody took on this type of car. And always nice to have a shorter car that looks more at home on a layout.
I do wonder if Rapido will ever do the 70-ton 4100 cuft aluminum CNWX cylindrical grain car for use on prairie branch lines, or if that market has already been saturated by Intermountain and Walthers incorrectly applying the aluminum/yellow CNWX wheat sheaves scheme to their models of the larger 4500 cuft steel cylindrical cars.
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Post by sd40dash2 on Dec 16, 2023 10:39:21 GMT -8
... 70-ton 4100 cuft aluminum CNWX cylindrical grain car for use on prairie branch lines, or if that market has already been saturated by Intermountain and Walthers incorrectly applying the aluminum/yellow CNWX wheat sheaves scheme to their models of the larger 4500 cuft steel cylindrical cars. Off topic for this thread but great idea for a future product! |
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Post by csxt8400 on Dec 16, 2023 13:54:56 GMT -8
If we are going off topic with cylindricals, a quality MIL 4650 would sew up a lot of missing pieces.
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Post by Baikal on Dec 16, 2023 14:00:35 GMT -8
My three Rapido sodium chlorate covered hoppers arrived yesterday and I agree with other posters that they look better in person compared to the pictures at the start of the thread.
Can you elaborate on how you think lvrr325's five photos don't reflect reality? Especially the 4x oversized grabs on the sides of the endcages that look like flat steps and the running board extention that looks like a 1950's metal stamping. Are those are different in-person? I don't see how photos are innacurate, minor color issues excepted.
Original post & photos:
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Post by cemr5396 on Dec 17, 2023 7:14:55 GMT -8
If we are going off topic with cylindricals, a quality MIL 4650 would sew up a lot of missing pieces. I would rather the NSC 4650 personally, IMO it is a more interesting car, and it's visually distinctive - which translates to sales for the model company that makes it. The problem I see with a Marine 4650 model is it is too similar to the 4550, and goodness knows Intermountain and recently Walthers have sure made enough foobies of those. I too would really like an actual model of the NSC 4100, like the 4550 I think those cars are distinctive enough someone could sell enough of them to make it work. Maybe make them in undec too so the freelancers and foobyists buy some too to pump up the numbers. |
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Post by mlwlover on Dec 25, 2023 8:34:13 GMT -8
does anyone have any info on how to remove the top railings? like where to make the cuts etc? they removed the railings on the prototype cars.
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Post by 690 on Dec 25, 2023 9:28:30 GMT -8
does anyone have any info on how to remove the top railings? like where to make the cuts etc? they removed the railings on the prototype cars. They should be removed level with the running board. The top part of the handrails was collapsible into the lower part, and only the top part was removed. |
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