In what order did you decide what, where, and when to model?

[Baikal]

For those who model...

A particular railroad or several railroads.  Including proto-freelance = "WHAT".

AND model a place or places (could be anything from a single crossing to a line or region... as long as it's something) = "WHERE"

AND model a time period or periods (could be anything from a single day to a 5 or 10-year period... as long as most of your rolling stock can run together without looking too ridiculous) = "WHEN".

QUESTION: In what order of the above did you come to your decision?

POLL with the six possible orderings of the three parameters is attached (click on thread title)

Thanks.

[csxt8400]

I find this more complex than I probably should.

Someone could say they want to model SD40's. That would be WHAT. But it is within the confines of that unit's service life. That would be WHEN. Both are equally important.

For me, I knew the general era I was attracted to. That era has multiple railroads of interest, so I went with "when" as my first choice, as I truthfully could alter my main railroad focus and still be quite content.

[wagnersteve]

1/5/2024, about 10:30 p.m., EST

In case anyone might be interested, I'll explain my WHAT, WHEN, WHERE choice. I think I've liked trains and trolleys from early boyhood. I and the oldest of my younger brothers had a Marx O27 set (the metal diesel was painted red and silver for the Southern Pacific, in what I learned much later was the livery of the joint RI-SP Golden State, joined later by one of the least expensive Lionedl O27 trains, powered by a yellow UP diesel. But I and two of my younger brothers got into HO about 1957 or 1958, inspired in part by a series in the Boy Scouts' magazine and the emergence of HO as a popular scale. My first HO car was an Athearn Erie gondola. An uncle gave us an Athearn HO train set with a B&O "GP9" (really a GP7) and a MCRR gondola,, a flatcar, maybe a boxcar or stock car, definitely a big wrecking crane and a work caboose. I and one brother gave each other a freight car or two. Meanwhile, we regularly rode trolleys, interurbans, buses and trains, both PRR commuter trains and, many summers in the 1950s into the 1960s, the PRR from Philadelphia to New York City, two subway lines to Grand Central, the NYC from there to Albany, and the D&H from there to Whitehall. Hobbytown RS3 models on a display shelf at Todd's Hobby Shop increased my desire for a D&H loco of that type. I ordered AHM's 40' PS-1 boxcar decorated for the D&H when it came out about 1960. Its black color was clearly incorrect; AHM corrected that, but not its lettering, which was of the type used on some 50' cars squeezed to fit. In about 1960 when the D&H first painted diesels in the blue, gray & yellow lightning stripe scheme I let Bill Walthers know about that. In the summer of 1962 I paid good attention to the D&H in Whitehall and was hooked. A long solo trip from home to Kansas in the summer of 1963 via PRR to Baltimore, B&O from there to Washington, DC, Harper's Ferry, Cumberland and on to St. Louis, buses after that; the return was by B&O from St. Louis to Cincinnati, C&O from there to Washington, then PRR. Long trips in PA, NY, VT and Canada with my family after my Dad got his first car in 1960. Saw a lot of the CP and CN, some 1960-1964. Solo trip in 1964 to get to Oberlin College in Ohio: PRR to NYC, New York Central from there via southern Ontario to Albion in MIchigan, followed by a ride with an uncle back to Ohio. Trips into Cleveland made me fond of the NKP. A long trip on the PRR to Pittsburgh and then Richmond, Indiana in 1967, followed by riding IC and C&NW trains in Chicago. Started graduate work at Harvard in 1968, riding to Boston on the PRR and New Haven. Numerous Northeast Corridor trips followed. A long solo expedition from Boston to Chicago via Albany, Montreal, Toronto in 1970, including riding the MILW to Milwaukee, the CSS&SB to South Bend and back, and the IC to and from Champaign in 1970. Etc., etc. Became an official resident of Mass. in 1968 when I started teaching; have ridden many B&M, NH and NYC lines. Etc., etc.

I need to get to bed. We're expected the first real snowstorm of the winter tomorrow night into Sunday.

[cpr4200]

My what's, where's and when's are all over the place. Have tried to focus, but failed. Mainly interested in CP/B&M lines in Vermont, two eras: 1948-51 (steam to diesel) and 1977-81. Also NYC ca. 1967 (what I saw as a kid). Then EL east end and WM in the early to mid 70's because that's what I fanned and photographed. And New Haven ca. 1958 because its decrepitude was fascinating.

[Colin 't Hart]

For me the What and Where came at the same time -- sort of. After many years of thinking I wanted to model the BN somewhere, and having some MILW equipment on the side, it dawned on me that I wanted to model the "Hiawatha Avenue" line in South Minneapolis as it was when the MILW still operated there. In the present day it's the Minnesota Commercial, under a lease agreement dating back to the 1990s. I had already decided I wanted to model the mid 1970s, before the "modern" per diem 50 box car boom. So the When came first (mid 1970s), followed by the Where (South Minneapolis elevator district), and then the What (Milwaukee Road).

[Baikal]

Jan 5, 2024 19:13:14 GMT -8 csxt8400 said:

I find this more complex than I probably should.

Someone could say they want to model SD40's. That would be WHAT. But it is within the confines of that unit's service life. That would be WHEN. Both are equally important.

For me, I knew the general era I was attracted to. That era has multiple railroads of interest, so I went with "when" as my first choice, as I truthfully could alter my main railroad focus and still be quite content.

Similar situation.

I choose the "when" first because I like the early 1960s (RR equipment, culture, etc)

And I like the Pacific Northwest, having lived in Portland a few years in the 90s (before it was reked. Watch "Portlandia", it's true).  And I like four railroads of the Pacific Northwest- SP&S, and SP, UP, MILW.  BUT I much prefer the later SP&S with broadstripe paint, C-636s and C-415s.  Problem is I can't model west-of-Cascades scenery due to all the tall conifers.  Urban modeling is ok, but rural & mountains, no.  Model conifers are expensive, large, and almost impossible to do well but are the dominant tree in the northwest.

I like the Inland Gateway (SP&S / GN / WP from the Columbia River to the NW Sacramento Valley) but again, conifers and a lack of towns.  And the WP only ran thru to Portland from the late 60s on.

I've also had a long-time admiration for the SAL / ACL / SCL, but for the most part they ran in the relatively flat conifer-covered SE USA plains & coastal plains.  Bleh.

I really like the scenery of the eastern USA from approx southern Illinois to New York, say Penn Central & N&W territory, but I'm not a big fan of any railroads that ran there, during any time period.

Solution for now is my small generic urban switching layout that could be set almost anywhere.  But not a long-term solution.

[edwardsutorik]

Jan 6, 2024 11:20:27 GMT -8 Baikal said:

And I like the Pacific Northwest, having lived in Portland a few years in the 90s (before it was reked. Watch "Portlandia", it's true).  And I like four railroads of the Pacific Northwest- SP&S, and SP, UP, MILW.  BUT I much prefer the later SP&S with broadstripe paint, C-636s and C-415s.  Problem is I can't model west-of-Cascades scenery due to all the tall conifers.  Urban modeling is ok, but rural & mountains, no.  Model conifers are expensive, large, and almost impossible to do well but are the dominant tree in the northwest.

I like the Inland Gateway (SP&S / GN / WP from the Columbia River to the NW Sacramento Valley) but again, conifers and a lack of towns.  And the WP only ran thru to Portland from the late 60s on.

On the SP&S, the conifers stop at about Lyle. That's where Klickitat logging was, with the last working logging Shay in the US (I believe). There's still some, but there's a lot more grassland. Get over to Wishram, and the conifers within sight will be in single digit numbers. And that's pretty much true on up to Spokane.

Following the Oregon Trunk, there ain't a lot of conifers in the Oregon desert. Which is a goodly part of the run down to Bend.

True, all the towns along those stretches of track are small--not a lot of switching districts. But in the places where there ARE such districts, there's not a lot of conifers, either.

Now, if ya gotta model certain PNW areas, you've got those trees. The GN electrification in the Cascades is one. Down around the Keddie wye is another. But I chose Lyle, where the conifers can all be on the distant painted backdrop .



Ed

[lvrr325]

Started out 90s era fictional LV Sayre-Buffalo. Backdated as C628s and C420s came available. Found the Wilkes-Barre-Allentown section more interesting, plus added opportunity for more foreign power. Just about anything eastern could turn up at Bethlehem.

[hudsonyard]

I was on the way to an operating session at the now departed Harold Werthweins Erie Delaware Division in Columba, PA many years ago, we stopped in Phillipsburg, NJ on the way there and pulled up to a clearing that led into a small 4 track yard. My friend explained to me that it was the Lehigh and Hudson Rivers Hudson Yard and that the PRR, LV and CNJ all interchanged with the LHR here, the LHR accessed Hudson Yard via trackage rights over the PRR Bel-Del division. At the time I was looking for a prototype for a small shelf layout, and the idea of 3-4 railroads in one small place tickled my fancy. That begun a nearly 20 year long research project on the LHR to the point where if i DONT end up building a LHR layout i'd be cheating myself. I've settled on modeling 70-72 because I like that era of equipment the most, and the LHRs operations had contracted so much by that point that I could staff a nearly full size basement layout with only around 10 operators, 3-4 if I just model Phillipsburg and Hudson Yard.

Go out and look at the prototype, you'll lose sayings like "My railroad, my rules" and "rivet counting" out of your system very quickly.

[edwardsutorik]

As implied above, my "what" is the SP&S and BN and UP, along the Columbia River, mostly near Lyle (the "where"). My "when" is every five years, starting in 1945.



Ed

[Baikal]

Jan 6, 2024 12:25:01 GMT -8 edwardsutorik said:

Jan 6, 2024 11:20:27 GMT -8 Baikal said:

And I like the Pacific Northwest, having lived in Portland a few years in the 90s (before it was reked. Watch "Portlandia", it's true).  And I like four railroads of the Pacific Northwest- SP&S, and SP, UP, MILW.  BUT I much prefer the later SP&S with broadstripe paint, C-636s and C-415s.  Problem is I can't model west-of-Cascades scenery due to all the tall conifers.  Urban modeling is ok, but rural & mountains, no.  Model conifers are expensive, large, and almost impossible to do well but are the dominant tree in the northwest.

I like the Inland Gateway (SP&S / GN / WP from the Columbia River to the NW Sacramento Valley) but again, conifers and a lack of towns.  And the WP only ran thru to Portland from the late 60s on.

On the SP&S, the conifers stop at about Lyle. That's where Klickitat logging was, with the last working logging Shay in the US (I believe). There's still some, but there's a lot more grassland. Get over to Wishram, and the conifers within sight will be in single digit numbers. And that's pretty much true on up to Spokane.

Following the Oregon Trunk, there ain't a lot of conifers in the Oregon desert. Which is a goodly part of the run down to Bend.

True, all the towns along those stretches of track are small--not a lot of switching districts. But in the places where there ARE such districts, there's not a lot of conifers, either.

Now, if ya gotta model certain PNW areas, you've got those trees. The GN electrification in the Cascades is one. Down around the Keddie wye is another. But I chose Lyle, where the conifers can all be on the distant painted backdrop .

Ed

South-west of Spokane / Paloose hills is certainly an option.  As is parts of the OT, especially in the canyon (I like to model rocks & cliffs).  I wish there were larger towns on the OT tho.  I've considered proto-freelancing urban Spokane with just a few conifers and a backdrop of hills & trees.

Lyle is interesting.  How many industry spots could you have there?

[edwardsutorik]

Jan 6, 2024 21:30:02 GMT -8 Baikal said:

Lyle is interesting.  How many industry spots could you have there?

As with many railroad locations, Lyle has been "simplified". Right now, there are no industry locations, just some tracks used for car storage and MOW equipment.

Lyle was where the Goldendale branch joined the main line. It came down the Klickitat River canyon. It was built as the Columbia River & Northern, and preceded the SP&S and its main line. It's now gone. There used to be wood and grain coming down from Goldendale. And Klickitat.

There were some sheds on the river side of the main, used in the sheep shipping business.


Not a lot of industrial options at Lyle. Maybe up at Pasco or Spokane. There WAS an aluminum plant beyond Wishram, but it was served by a pretty long spur, and was not adjacent to the main.


Ed

[kentuckysouthernrwy]

When is most fluid in my decision making….still.

[Baikal]

Jan 7, 2024 8:27:47 GMT -8 kentuckysouthernrwy said:

When is most fluid in my decision making….still.

Of the three parameters, nailing down "when" probably saves the most money.

No more buying assorted stuff that could never have existed at the same time.  Hard to do, I know.  But many don't want to nail down a specific timeframe(s).

So far:

24 of 33 have selected "what" as 1st.

5 of 33 have selected "where" as 1st.

4 of 33 have selected "when" as 1st.

[talltim]

As a complete newby to the US scene I discovered Guilford and liked the scheme and the general run-downness of the RR
I then discovered Lawrence through googling pics, specifically the streetrunning in Lawrence
Period came last, originally it was pretty contemporary (2004), but the more I research the more earlier periods entice, currently mid 80s, but the 1890s B&M and predecessors tempt

Lowell and Lawrence RR Lawrence MA Canal Street Station

Reverse view from the station