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Post by win70rob on Jan 17, 2024 8:57:23 GMT -8
Over the last few years I see most manufacturers make new product announcements every month but it seems like one rarely sees anything from Atlas anymore. A friend of mine that owns a brick and mortar Hobby Shop even has Atlas items frequently deleted off his back order list for being more than two years and seeing nothing. Does anyone have any insight on this. I always thought Atlas made a great product and just don’t seem to see a lot of them minus a few pieces here or there that came in after being announced years before
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Post by jonklein611 on Jan 17, 2024 9:16:32 GMT -8
They have quite a bit in the pipeline and look to be recovering some of the schedule: shop.atlasrr.com/t-ordership.aspxMy guess is their factory slots are quite limited, plus they have acquired quite a bit of tooling (BLMA + others) on top of what they have had in development. Tooling is massively expensive so bringing out new items requires risky up front investment for possible returns. They seem to follow quarterish announcement timelines (Jan, June, Aug, Oct). |
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Post by middledivision on Jan 17, 2024 9:22:23 GMT -8
They take forever to bring the new HO stuff out. Years go by from announcement time to actual delivery.
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Post by riogrande on Jan 17, 2024 9:42:42 GMT -8
They take forever to bring the new HO stuff out. Years go by from announcement time to actual delivery. Kinda like Intermountain, and Athearn is taking longer and longer for announced items to hit the market; they used to be around 12 months from announce to shipping, and now it seems it's more like 1 1/2 years. |
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Post by jonklein611 on Jan 17, 2024 9:53:05 GMT -8
They take forever to bring the new HO stuff out. Years go by from announcement time to actual delivery. Kinda like Intermountain, and Athearn is taking longer and longer for announced items to hit the market; they used to be around 12 months from announce to shipping, and now it seems it's more like 1 1/2 years. I would expect this trend to continue as detail level increases. I could easily see a typical 18 - 24+ month timeline for projects. It also depends on "when" they announce the project. Has tooling been designed but not cut? Are the CAD files complete at announcement? and so on. More details / configurations means more tooling, more checks, refinement, longer productions runs (more parts to make), more things to paint / label, and increased assembly times. Any hiccup in the process will have cascading delays. Find an error and need to recut tooling? Add X months of rework plus negotiating for production slots at the factory. |
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Post by tillamook on Jan 17, 2024 10:19:01 GMT -8
They take forever to bring the new HO stuff out. Years go by from announcement time to actual delivery. Kinda like Intermountain, and Athearn is taking longer and longer for announced items to hit the market; they used to be around 12 months from announce to shipping, and now it seems it's more like 1 1/2 years. My oldest Athearn preorder is now more than two years old. |
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Post by prr 4467 on Jan 17, 2024 10:21:08 GMT -8
I completely agree with jonklein611!
Manufacturers perceive the need (based upon magazine articles, internet product reviews, emails received, and online forums such as this) to provide ever more exacting levels of detail and ever more dcc sound and lighting functions. This increases design time and product complexity all the way around. More complex products take more time to assemble with increased QA/QC issues that may occur. This adds time at virtually every step along the way.
The folks who are happy tend to not complain at all, so manufacturers most likely receive a skewed understanding of what the public really wants to buy, because most of the complaints come from a relatively small group of people. At the local train store level I hear lots of people say things like "I don't really need" or "want" that (whatever feature it might be).
So those of us who want to do less of our own modeling ourselves and instead ask for more features or more exacting models with more versions offered to be prototypically correct are the ones driving product complexity (and resulting prices) upward.
I am happy as a clam with some 20-year-old Atlas diesel models (that I've found recently new in box); yet I'm looking forward to those U30C's that are on the water right now, as I just placed 2 pre-orders for them. Also, it seems to me that Atlas has released plenty of new products recently as I can find plenty of them, almost any road name I want, available at various online dealers, still in stock. They tooled a completely new from the ground up U30C; I look forward to getting some, and if they are good, I'll get more than just the two.
Not everyone is going to be happy with yesterday's 20-year-old model, and this is the price we pay for always wanting state-of-the-art.
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Post by riogrande on Jan 17, 2024 11:25:18 GMT -8
So those of us who want to do less of our own modeling ourselves and instead ask for more features or more exacting models with more versions offered to be prototypically correct are the ones driving product complexity (and resulting prices) upward. Unfortunately, I don't have a great deal of hobby time and I am trying to build a sizable layout, while working F/T and helping my wife with endless house remodeling or upgrades. So apparently you can add me to the list of those who can be blamed for resulting prices If something happens to hit the market I like from Atlas, I might buy it, but otherwises I am not waiting on anything in their production queue and the long isn't a problem for me. |
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Post by gevohogger on Jan 17, 2024 11:46:17 GMT -8
So those of us who want to do less of our own modeling ourselves and instead ask for more features or more exacting models with more versions offered to be prototypically correct are the ones driving product complexity (and resulting prices) upward. Hey, we need someone to blame!
But in all seriousness, I'm still perfectly happy with most Atlas-level locomotives. Sure, the detailing isn't road-number-specific, but I can usually fix that by adding my own parts. What I like, though, is Atlas' assembly is always perfect. ALWAYS. No glue blobs, no crooked parts, no leaning railings. Athearn Genesis, Scale Trains and Rapido would do well by matching an Atlas locomotives level of fit and finish.
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Post by ChessieFan1978 on Jan 17, 2024 12:13:55 GMT -8
All the Manufacturers should slow their new announcements until their factories catch up, It's ridiculous how long it takes from announcement to store shelves these days. Trainworx, Intermountain, Atlas, and Athearn are by far the worse ones. Those Trainworx HO 40Ft Drop Frame trailers were announced in October 2020 and still aren't here. Won't even comment on Intermountain stuff. SMD isn't that great either but they at least have an excuse as they are basically a 2 man operation.
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Post by richardthomasatal on Jan 17, 2024 12:41:35 GMT -8
I honestly don't know how they survive producing such little in HO. Other scales must make them more money than we think.
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Jan 17, 2024 12:42:37 GMT -8
As some of us get older, “in my lifetime” expectations become a constant reality. But then I’ve way too much stuff anyhow. Some of the best happens to be Atlas.
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Post by locochris on Jan 17, 2024 12:54:56 GMT -8
Too bad Kadee doesn't make more stuff in their US factory. I'm sure a lot of the delays are due to the global instabilities going on.
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Post by ambluco on Jan 17, 2024 13:24:37 GMT -8
O scale I honestly don't know how they survive producing such little in HO. Other scales must make them more money than we think. |
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Post by jeoffreythecat on Jan 17, 2024 13:29:55 GMT -8
In a related (not trying to derail the thread) item, from today's "Indicator from Planet Money" podcast on NPR: "And a lot more money - the cost of getting a 40-foot container from Shanghai to Rotterdam has jumped 115% since December." The problems in the Red Sea have caused more shipping to go around South Africa to avoid the chaos. The added shipping time is driving up costs. While not Shanghai to Long Beach, I'm sure that there has been a jump and delay in prices there too. The Panama Canal situation is probably delaying things, plus some companies would be happy to wait in line there rather than pay to jump ahead.
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Post by keystonefarm on Jan 17, 2024 15:09:47 GMT -8
Over the last few years I see most manufacturers make new product announcements every month but it seems like one rarely sees anything from Atlas anymore. A friend of mine that owns a brick and mortar Hobby Shop even has Atlas items frequently deleted off his back order list for being more than two years and seeing nothing. Does anyone have any insight on this. I always thought Atlas made a great product and just don’t seem to see a lot of them minus a few pieces here or there that came in after being announced years before One thing to remember , Atlas,Athearn,Intermountain are no longer manufacturers they are importers. Other than Rapido which have their own facility and employees in China and Bachman which is Chinese owned . Everything else we buy as RTR detail level from bottom to top is made out of the US. With our trains importers just being customers they don't have the same say/power to lock in production slots. With the current leader of the CCP wanting to get China out of the toy business and into more viable consumer goods we might be seeing some of our trains coming from somewhere else in the future. Some of the larger toy manufacturers are slowly moving out of China as their labor rates increase day by day slowly making them non competitive price wise in the toy producer world and our trains are considered toys by the CCP. We may have just run out of productive low cost skilled labor for our now highly detailed toy trains !! --- Ken |
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Post by prr 4467 on Jan 17, 2024 15:41:35 GMT -8
So those of us who want to do less of our own modeling ourselves and instead ask for more features or more exacting models with more versions offered to be prototypically correct are the ones driving product complexity (and resulting prices) upward. Unfortunately, I don't have a great deal of hobby time and I am trying to build a sizable layout, while working F/T and helping my wife with endless house remodeling or upgrades. So apparently you can add me to the list of those who can be blamed for resulting prices If something happens to hit the market I like from Atlas, I might buy it, but otherwises I am not waiting on anything in their production queue and the long isn't a problem for me. Hello riogrande-- I wasn't trying to place blame, but to just provide my take on an explanation. We, collectively, many of us, are busy with life--jobs, families, other tasks like fixing up house, cars, etc. It is what it is. Did you folks look at the actual Atlas shipping schedule over on their website? Because what I do see is that a lot of product is arriving or has already arrived, fairly recently. Not everybody on these forums is going to be interested in some of their products, which might cater to more entry-level model train hobbyists. Not everybody cares about old U-boats (I do, but I'm not in the majority). Back in the "yellow box era" Atlas seemed to focus mostly on the track products first and foremost, as that was their bread and butter. Even a couple years back, I thought they sent out a letter to their dealers stating clearly that they were going to return to focusing first on the track. |
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Post by hudsonyard on Jan 17, 2024 16:27:44 GMT -8
My attitude has always been it gets here when it gets here, there's literally hundreds of different items to buy that fit my era and locale. Sure I'd really like to have those trainworxx FGE trailers as they are a big missing part of my LHR consists but i'm not gonna throw a damn conniption over it.
I learned years ago not to talk geo-politics with model railroaders but yes, with the current state of affairs you just gotta occasionally deal with the treats being delayed as they travel.
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Post by Mr. Trainiac on Jan 17, 2024 16:44:19 GMT -8
Over the last few years I see most manufacturers make new product announcements every month but it seems like one rarely sees anything from Atlas anymore. A friend of mine that owns a brick and mortar Hobby Shop even has Atlas items frequently deleted off his back order list for being more than two years and seeing nothing. Does anyone have any insight on this. I always thought Atlas made a great product and just don’t seem to see a lot of them minus a few pieces here or there that came in after being announced years before With the current leader of the CCP wanting to get China out of the toy business and into more viable consumer goods we might be seeing some of our trains coming from somewhere else in the future. Some of the larger toy manufacturers are slowly moving out of China as their labor rates increase day by day slowly making them non competitive price wise in the toy producer world and our trains are considered toys by the CCP. We may have just run out of productive low cost skilled labor for our now highly detailed toy trains !! --- Ken Lionel is making a lot of their rolling stock in Vietnam. Locomotives are still Chinese, but an increasing number of freight and passenger cars are made outside China. |
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Post by lvrr325 on Jan 17, 2024 19:28:10 GMT -8
Atlas showing up in the last few weeks: - 2nd run Slab Side hoppers - standard Cupola cabooses - NE-6 cabooses - Portec hoppers - GP-38 locomotives no sound Atlas coming soon: GP-38 locomotives with sound 50' GARX reefers (from 2019) U30C Ph.I Ford Fairmont sedans FM Trainmaster (partial) shop.atlasrr.com/t-ordership.aspx shows everything that is in production, has recently been produced, when it was announced, when it left China, and when they shipped to dealers. The average is 18 months, everything from 2020 they have caught up with, there are three outstanding items from 2019 and one from 2018, otherwise nothing older than 2021. They used to issue a monthly catalog but starting about a year ago cut back to bimonthly or seasonal issues, so they could catch up on this backlog of items. The average time from close of pre-orders to delivery was about 18 months until the primary factory everyone was using closed and everyone had to find a new place to get their items made. Atlas has also rushed a few newer items, the first run of the Gundersen auto racks was pushed up to beat ScaleTrains on delivery, the CNCF Boxcar showed up at about 9 months, and the Portec covered hopper, and 2nd run of slab sides were in at about 11 months, both coming in December on a Jan 18th preorder cutoff. There's about 85 N items listed on the production schedule page including those that have shipped, and 75 HO items (with the Standard Cupola cabooses missing due to a previous error). Also 70 O scale items and 1 Z. That's a fairly even divide between the three scales. So to OP I would say no, they're not making less. If someone is having items deleted, that's a factor of his distributor, not because the items won't be made. The only one I question at this point is the RS1 if there is a tooling issue. |
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Post by alcoc430 on Jan 17, 2024 19:32:09 GMT -8
Once Atlas U30C ph1 is delivered All my lokie needs have been met for conrail. I have the SW1001, GP10, GP8, E44, S6 and T6 covered by resin. So I not going to worry about what anyone going to make any longer. As far as rolling stock goes, outside of flexi flows that rapido did, I dont know enough to tell a foobie from the real deal in most cases. lol With Walthers doing the open trilevels/bilevels with side panels in conrail even though a foobie there isnt much left that I would really need.
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Post by cpr4200 on Jan 17, 2024 21:56:48 GMT -8
Haven't been paying attention, I guess ... going to want at least one D&H U30C and maybe an RDG. I wonder if they plan to do an upgraded U33/36C to match? Seems like a good bet; they've got most of it in the recent U33/36B's, if the molds are modular. I'd be in for a couple of D&H and EL, maybe even an SP.
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Post by lvrr325 on Jan 18, 2024 0:29:48 GMT -8
I have some Reading and D&H coming, I expected those will sell fairly well.
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Post by win70rob on Jan 18, 2024 6:00:31 GMT -8
I’m no expert but I do believe that Horizon which owns and produces Athearn does indeed own their own factory/manufacturing facility in China. On Horizons main web they list Horizon Hobby China as a Wholly Foreign-Owned Enterprise (WFOE) in Shanghai, China owned by Horizon Hobby, LLC in the USA. Once again, I'm no expert. With the large size of Horizon Hobby and all they own I could believe this. Although some projects through Athearn do take a while. Almost everything I pre order seems to arrive within 12-14 months from announcement. But with that said, I can see how a company like Horizon doesn’t have to worry about the capital to fund modular tooling. I still wish Atlas would make more announcements, and can’t wait to get my hands on the D&H U30c’s. They have always had wonderful paint jobs and as some else mentioned, you don’t have to worry about glue marks
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Post by crblue on Jan 18, 2024 6:25:36 GMT -8
I honestly don't know how they survive producing such little in HO. Other scales must make them more money than we think. They're one of the only other major manufacturers left in O scale. And the have a very good reputation in N scale too. Unlike, say, Rapido who can't get themselves out of HO scale, Atlas is in O, Ho, N, and even dabbles in Z scale. I'd go as far as to say that compared to other companies, their HO catalogue is their least impressive. |
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Post by riogrande on Jan 18, 2024 7:21:48 GMT -8
@u30c - no worries. The same assertions have been made many times before. But I can't complain about the models we've been getting past 10+ years.
My biggest complaint about Atlas isn't the frequency or quantity of releases, but the fact they still don't generally offer Kadee couplers factory equipped. I have a lot of Atlas models that need couplers swapped out waiting in line behind the layout work. I did order a 10-pack of Moloco draft gear toward that end and have some bulk packs of seme scale head Kadee's on deck.
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Post by prr 4467 on Jan 18, 2024 8:44:10 GMT -8
I buy Kadee #158 bulk packs and replace couplers on every item that needs them at the time of unboxing.
My biggest complaint with Atlas, really only complaint the last 10 years, is the sound on the U28C's was horrible.
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Post by bnsf971 on Jan 18, 2024 9:20:59 GMT -8
In a related (not trying to derail the thread) item, from today's "Indicator from Planet Money" podcast on NPR: "And a lot more money - the cost of getting a 40-foot container from Shanghai to Rotterdam has jumped 115% since December." The problems in the Red Sea have caused more shipping to go around South Africa to avoid the chaos. The added shipping time is driving up costs. While not Shanghai to Long Beach, I'm sure that there has been a jump and delay in prices there too. The Panama Canal situation is probably delaying things, plus some companies would be happy to wait in line there rather than pay to jump ahead. A ship that spends twice as long at sea means that ship is not available to take a second load.So, a ship tied up going around the South end of Africa isn't able to bring a load to Long Beach. "Usually" ships like this are on dedicated routes, but if more have to be pulled from their normal ones to cover the delays, the effects quickly become a problem on routes not directly affected. |
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Post by cera2254 on Jan 18, 2024 9:31:40 GMT -8
Haven't been paying attention, I guess ... going to want at least one D&H U30C and maybe an RDG. I wonder if they plan to do an upgraded U33/36C to match? Seems like a good bet; they've got most of it in the recent U33/36B's, if the molds are modular. I'd be in for a couple of D&H and EL, maybe even an SP. I’d love to have an EL and CR U36C! |
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Post by riogrande on Jan 18, 2024 9:55:17 GMT -8
I buy Kadee #158 bulk packs and replace couplers on every item that needs them at the time of unboxing. I have Kadee #158 bulk packs on deck, but replacing the Accumates on Atlas is waiting on hobby time behind the layout, which is behind the house remodeling. See where I am going. And to complicate matters, the Atlas FMC boxcars aren't a simple swapout. As reported on TrainOrders: "These all come with the semi-scale coupler box on the car and the larger coupler box in a clear baggie. As far as I know, only the plastic coupler fits in the smaller coupler box. Atlas redesigned the larger coupler box, but neither version works with Kadee couplers as is. I can modify the redesigned coupler box to fit the Kadee coupler so it operates correctly, but it's still a big PITA." Solution? use Moloco draft gear. I've ordered a 10-pack of Freightmaster ME010 draft gear but as with so many things on my to-do list, well, I'll get to it someday. This is my gripe against Atlas and one reason why I love Tangent freight cars so much! |
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