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Post by cpr4200 on Mar 13, 2024 15:00:31 GMT -8
so...... where is Atlas ? The PSC Van ? Typical Atlas Radio silence If they announced it today, how many years would it take for it to get here? Maybe they'll surprise us and it'll magically appear: * poof * ! |
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Post by protofrtcar on Mar 13, 2024 16:22:46 GMT -8
I note the sample PFE cars have the same approach to bending the end of the etched metal running board walkway over and down to form the walkway supports as on the sodium chlorate covered hoppers. This bend is particularly poorly done on the B-end of PFE 11711, and appears to be more like it was "rolled" over instead of a crisp bend. This "bend" versus "roll" was inconsistently done on the sodium chlorate cars; hopefully these cars are more consistent. Shame that this design is being used again since the artwork suggests the supports under either end of the walkway would be separate parts and not a folded-over tab stamped as part of the walkway part. Yes, that was the same for the Great Northern cars, at least some of those came without a roofwalk, but with these PFE reefers you don't have a choice, you are stuck with a roofwalk. Also the UP Boxcars and Sodium chlorate cars. This is a very poor design and cost cutting measure (although we don't see that in the top dollar price) as opposed to a separate bracket. It detracts from the overall model, although as mentioned already the model does have some "clunckiness". Whoever came up with that roofwalk design and visualized the end result needs to be IMPALED on the two end protruding forks. Anyone else advising on the production/outcome of this model would surely be disappointed. |
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Post by cemr5396 on Mar 13, 2024 17:00:32 GMT -8
If they announced it today, how many years would it take for it to get here? And the same can't be said for Rapido? Their lead times are equally horrible. How long will it take for the Hawkers to show up? I'm betting AT LEAST 2 years. |
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Post by wagnersteve on Mar 13, 2024 18:02:41 GMT -8
3/13/24, starting about 9:43 p.m., EDT
mdq, thanks very much for both of your posts, which I've just now seen. I hope Atlas eventually comes out with good models of thre Pre. St-Charles vans.
Morning Sun Books' Refrigerator Car Color Guide by Gene Green has some good photos of PFE R-27 and R-28 reefers, all with the later large sans serif PACIFIC FRUIT EXPRESS with the capitals larger and the first letter of the second and third words below the second letter of the one above it. The roof of PFE 10054, class R-27, built, according to the caption, in June 1957 but photographed in January 1975, looks quite dark and may be the same color as the sides. But the roof of PFE 10051, from the same group, photographed in Sacramento in November 1971, seems to have no paint on the parts of the roof ribs visible; little of the roof shows. Much the same is true of PFE 10103, from the same group, as photographed in Fort Worth in December 1979.
I'm tempted to try to get one of the Rapido models.
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Post by wagnersteve on Mar 14, 2024 2:20:04 GMT -8
3/14/24 ("Pi Day"), starting 6:14 a.m., EDT
Classic Freight Cars, Vol 3: 40 ft. Refrigerator Cars, by John Henderson, Flushing, NY: H&M Productions, 1993, has at least two photos of PFE R-27 reefers. The one on which I can read the number, on p. 19, is of PFE 11093, built in 1957, made in June 1968 at a unidentified location, clearly shows a silver roof. The car's sans serif reporting marks and car number are on a black box on the sides.
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Post by riogrande on Mar 14, 2024 2:59:00 GMT -8
If they announced it today, how many years would it take for it to get here? And the same can't be said for Rapido? Their lead times are equally horrible. How long will it take for the Hawkers to show up? I'm betting AT LEAST 2 years. Same can be said for many other model train brands. Atlas, Intermountain, Athearn. Perhaps all have similar lag times but some just choose to announce a little further into the process so the time to shipping is less. |
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Post by timvanmersbergen on Mar 14, 2024 6:13:54 GMT -8
Although I could use some of the PFE reefers, I've been sufficiently disappointed by Rapido's offerings that I'm skipping these for other alternatives. The roofwalk, cut levers, and general clunkiness are not acceptable at the price point just as it wasn't with the GN and UP boxcars recently released. My Intermountain R-40-23s, R-40-25s, and various 57' mechanicals will hold the line for the Council Bluffs interchange block.
I just cannot support Rapido at this point. Time to walk away regardless of what they offer.
Tim VanMersbergen
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Post by jonklein611 on Mar 14, 2024 6:22:08 GMT -8
18-24 months for the entirety of the product design stages is fairly normal. I'm not sure how it could be reduced any further, unless you're holding back announcements until tooling is completed and validated, but then you're just hiding part of the development schedule. - Product research / Project financial estimates
- Initial design concept (rough tooling count)
- Detailed design (including all options / prototype specific stuff)
- Detailed electronic design (lighting, function mapping, PCBA design)
- Initial tooling manufacturing / cutting (no details like rivets / thru holes)
- Initial PCBA builds
- Initial BOM for purchased items / non injection parts (decoders, wiring, motors, wheels, couplers, etc.)
- Initial artwork plans -> initial paint mask designs
- Initial packaging design / artwork / manuals / drawings / parts list
- Test prints / tooling shots
- Feedback loop to revise tooling / design
- Finalize tooling / paint masks
- Finalize PCBA / lighting design
- Production samples
- Feedback loop to revise tooling / design
- Full production run (parts, paint, assembly, decorate, box, crate, ship)
That's a huge amount of work to accomplish in 18 months with minimal mistakes while still making the project profitable. That's also assuming you have the appropriate production slot at the factory that aligns with your project schedule. Any hiccup and you may miss that slot, delaying the project.
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Post by Baikal on Mar 14, 2024 7:22:04 GMT -8
3/13/24, starting about 9:43 p.m., EDT mdq, thanks very much for both of your posts, which I've just now seen. I hope Atlas eventually comes out with good models of thre Pre. St-Charles vans. Morning Sun Books' Refrigerator Car Color Guide by Gene Green has some good photos of PFE R-27 and R-28 reefers, all with the later large sans serif PACIFIC FRUIT EXPRESS with the capitals larger and the first letter of the second and third words below the second letter of the one above it. The roof of PFE 10054, class R-27, built, according to the caption, in June 1957 but photographed in January 1975, looks quite dark and may be the same color as the sides. But the roof of PFE 10051, from the same group, photographed in Sacramento in November 1971, seems to have no paint on the parts of the roof ribs visible; little of the roof shows. Much the same is true of PFE 10103, from the same group, as photographed in Fort Worth in December 1979. I'm tempted to try to get one of the Rapido models.
Comments from Dick Harley. Fom the SP io group:
Yes, the conventional wisdom was that red ends and roofs were applied to all new PFE steel ice reefers. I even mostly wrote that in the SPH&TS painting & lettering book. But upon further investigation of the R-40-27 class, the photos of near new cars showed the roof and ends to be of different colors. And, the color photos showed the ends to be black. As additional evidence, I obtained a copy of the PFE 74-Q spec for the R-40-27 class, and it says asphalt coatings and does not mention anything being freight car red.
So, the R-40-26 class was the last PFE class to receive FC Red ends and roofs when new. The R-40-27, R-40-28 and R-40-23 Ice Tempco cars all received black ends and a version of aluminum asphalt coating on the roof when new.
As for repaints, there are photos of repainted R-40-26 and older class cars with Black ends and Aluminum roofs before 1962. Nearly all repaints were done at Tucson at that time, and ice and mechanical cars were sometimes intermixed. Rather than always keeping track of which cars should be FC Red and which should be Black & Aluminum, the shop folks sometimes just used the more current scheme on all cars. That probably influenced PFE to abandon FC Red ends and roof in 1962.
From the bbfcl (baby boomers freight car list) io group:
The roofs of the R-40-27 and -28 were painted with an aluminum asphalt coating. It was not a bright aluminum paint, like UP diesel trucks, but aluminum particles mixed in an asphalt base. Plus, it had granules spread over the wet coating for safety traction, which had a color of their own.
Other PFE ice reefers intentionally painted with aluminum roofs and black ends before 1962: the Ice Tempco R-40-23 cars in 1960-61.
Plus, assorted repaints that sometimes got that color scheme as they went through the Tucson paint shop mixed in with mechanical reefers.
Starting 1966 roofs painted white.
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Six Dick Harley PFE modeling clinic presentations:
Tony Thompson's blog- PFE models:
Note that PFE orange is the same as SP Daylight & PE orange.
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Post by idgara on Mar 14, 2024 11:33:27 GMT -8
According to Dick Harley, post’66 cars roofs were painted white.
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Post by tom on Mar 14, 2024 12:23:41 GMT -8
Although I could use some of the PFE reefers, I've been sufficiently disappointed by Rapido's offerings that I'm skipping these for other alternatives. The roofwalk, cut levers, and general clunkiness are not acceptable at the price point just as it wasn't with the GN and UP boxcars recently released. My Intermountain R-40-23s, R-40-25s, and various 57' mechanicals will hold the line for the Council Bluffs interchange block. I just cannot support Rapido at this point. Time to walk away regardless of what they offer. Tim VanMersbergen Unfortunately I agree with you. I certainly will not pre-order but will wait to see them in person. I am OK with their Penn Central X72 boxcars but even there the car was underweight, the couplers were thrown away and the trucks could have been better. Graphics were OK but again not perfect (not like Tangent can do). The PC green was very well done though. |
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Post by wagnersteve on Mar 14, 2024 12:57:44 GMT -8
3/14/24, starting about 4:56 p.m., EDT
Baikal, thanks very much for your latest post, with info from Dick Harley and Tom Thompson that probably should settle the issue.
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