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Post by bn7023 on Apr 24, 2024 0:52:37 GMT -8
This model was in the pile of junk I bought the other day. The black floorboard is diecast, and the brown underframe and other parts are unpainted styrene. When turned over, six truss rods are stretched out, each extending to the ends. The brake piping and rigging are free-standing. Unfortunately, the plastic is fragile, so one truss rod broke and the handbrake stand came off. Also, it's a shame that there's no lettering. How do I repair this? I can't find any indication of the manufacturer's name. I searched the internet, but couldn't find it. Does anyone know what this is?   |
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Post by cera2254 on Apr 24, 2024 1:21:08 GMT -8
This might be one of the few freight cars that Ertl made. They mainly made farm toys but did and HO flat car, gondola and boxcar IIRC.
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Post by simulatortrain on Apr 24, 2024 2:42:38 GMT -8
It's Bachmann's ACF 40' log flatcar.
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Post by lvrr325 on Apr 24, 2024 11:38:05 GMT -8
I was about to say I think it's a Bachmann, I have a couple in the box with the logs.
A friend wondered if the tooling actually originates with IHC or someone they produced for, but I never looked into it. IHC had a line of "old-time" cars with flats and a log loader crane that sat on the deck of a car which looks like it would fit these.
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Post by wagnersteve on Apr 24, 2024 13:46:55 GMT -8
4/24/2024, about 5:47 p.m., EDT
All of Ertl's HO freight cars were mostly high impact polystyrene. The graphics on some of the house cars were almost surely a bit oversized.
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Post by Mr. Trainiac on Apr 24, 2024 13:59:48 GMT -8
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Post by cera2254 on Apr 24, 2024 16:57:16 GMT -8
4/24/2024, about 5:47 p.m., EDT All of Ertl's HO freight cars were mostly high impact polystyrene. The graphics on some of the house cars were almost surely a bit oversized. Thanks Steve, a little out of my wheelhouse so wasn’t sure on this one. |
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Post by bn7023 on Apr 25, 2024 9:13:53 GMT -8
Thank you everyone for your replies. ERTL products were featured in the 1998 and 1999 editions of the Walthers catalog. Next is the 1999 edition (page 144, arranged)  These models are explained in detail by Tony Cook, and flat car variations are also introduced ( the website). It is not this model because it has a fishbelly underframe. The next photo is a 40' double sheathed boxcar that I have.  By the way, I suspect that the tooling of this boxcar is being used for Rapido Trains products ( posted on Feb 4, 2021 in this forum). 646The same image Mr. Trainiac showed us was also found on the Bachmann Trains website ( ACF 40' log car). The stake pockets and archbar trucks are exactly the same. There are a 1906-1935 version and a 1935-1960 version, and since my flatcar has a KC brake system (w/K triple valve), it is probably the former. When I carefully checked the back of the underframe, I found faint stamps of ”BACHMANN” and "MADE IN CHINA". My farsighted eyes missed them.  Even so, the list price of $75.00 and the TrainWorlds price of $48.99 are not at a level that we can afford. If we look at the amazing underfloor, which has been built into detail, it's not hard to see that the price will be like that, but it's too rude to tell people to buy it at this price without showing that. Considering the purchasing group of the company's products, I have to declare that the concept of the product was wrong. On the other hand, in the Model Expo Inc. advertisement in MR magazine April 2002 issue, page 32, the list price is $30.00 and the sale price is $16.99. Huh? All of Bachmann's other rolling stocks have a list price of $9.95, a selling price of $6.99, and 1/3 - 1/2.4. You can't really tell from the ad that it has that kind of charm. I think Bachmann released the model around this time.   I looked for a prototype of this flat car, but I couldn't find it in the materials I had. The following is from the 1909 edition of Car Builders' Dictionary, and only ACF and truss rod type match.  Queen posts (?) like the Bachmann model can be found in the 1888 edition of Car Builder's Dictionary.  Once again, I would like to thank everyone who participated in the thread for helping us reach this conclusion. |
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Post by hudsonyard on Apr 25, 2024 14:36:52 GMT -8
way too old for my modeling window but i've always liked those ertl cars, i remember clark propst had a few on his EXCELLENT M&STL story city branch layout that he had repainted/decaled into a model that stood alongside some high end resin kits or brass cars. I believe the LV gons are pretty close to the cars they used for float idlers in jersey city.
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Post by lvrr325 on Apr 25, 2024 14:43:32 GMT -8
I remember those ERTL cars as being kind of a big deal when they first came out, then once they'd been around for a while they were slow to move and sat for ages.
Model Expo may have been one of Bachmann's "friends" - large retail dealers who can buy at the wholesaler price, which let them sell at about dealer's cost. There used to be quite a few of those, including one on eBay who would start items at 1 cent. They may still be around, I haven't looked. I think at one time almost anyone could show up at their warehouse and buy product. For several years here we had a train show vendor who must have bought all their obsolete parts and pieces, they came to the big Syracuse show for 3 or 4 years.
Either way, it's not unusual to be able to find Bachmann at about 50% of list because of that. I suspect it's tightened up some in the last few years as the dealer discount is less than it used to be.
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Post by cera2254 on Apr 25, 2024 15:16:49 GMT -8
Pretty amazing what Bachmann delivers for $75 and what Tangent and others can deliver for 30% less. I know it’s MSRP but $75 is nuts…
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Post by edwardsutorik on Apr 25, 2024 15:29:07 GMT -8
There are a 1906-1935 version and a 1935-1960 version, and since my flatcar has a KC brake system (w/K triple valve), it is probably the former. No, you have the latter. The other one has a full set of evenly spaced stake pockets. The car having six truss rods makes it a relatively heavy duty one. Maybe a 50 ton car. To me, the trucks seem a bit light for the car. I do like the see-through turnbuckles. For no particular reason, this car seems like an NP car. The car would have been prohibited in interchange in 1941 because of the arch bar trucks. The truss rods would have done so in 1952, and the K brakes in 1953. However. Log cars (or MW cars) not usually being in interchange, they could have been used for quite awhile--probably until that 1960 date, I expect. Maybe later. Ed |
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Post by drolsen on Apr 25, 2024 16:17:59 GMT -8
Unfortunately, the plastic is fragile, so one truss rod broke and the handbrake stand came off. Also, it's a shame that there's no lettering. How do I repair this? Tichy and San Juan Details make turnbuckles that you could use with appropriately-sized wire to repair the truss rod (or replace all the truss rods to make them more durable): Tichy #8021 Turnbuckles - HOSan Juan Scale Turnbuckles - cored for .012″ wire HO/HOn3I think other manufacturers made them as well, possibly in different sizes, to find the correct size to match the model. Dave |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Apr 25, 2024 16:47:04 GMT -8
...so one truss rod broke...How do I repair this? I would turn the car upside down. I would place Evergreen strips, used as shimming, between the car bottom and the broken truss rod to align the pieces. I would then put a very small speck of slow-setting epoxy on the top of the gap. The epoxy will "sink in", and fill the gap. And bond the two ends together. It would probably be better to put in less epoxy, instead of more--big PITA to remove the excess. Ed |
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Post by jbilbrey on Apr 25, 2024 17:00:35 GMT -8
way too old for my modeling window but i've always liked those ertl cars, i remember clark propst had a few on his EXCELLENT M&STL story city branch layout that he had repainted/decaled into a model that stood alongside some high end resin kits or brass cars. I believe the LV gons are pretty close to the cars they used for float idlers in jersey city. I am still finding those Ertl flatcars, still N-I-B in my house - despite 3 moves. I bought a bunch when they were being closed-out for less than $10 a pop in the late 90's early 2000's as I planned on using them for a logging train to be pulled behind a then-new Bachmann Shay. I converted maybe a half dozen of them (placing rails on the decks for a log-loader, moving the brake wheels, etc.) before giving up on the project. I later used one in clinic where a friend and I compared and contrasted them with the Tichy flat that shares the same prototype. I just took another (a CN flat) and replaced the trucks with Tichy archbar trucks and repainted the underframe black to be used as another early to mid-20th Century freight car. Just repainting the Ertl cars helps them a lot. I never was a fan of the "muddy" uniform brown they used for the trucks, underfames and lower sides of the boxcars. It reminded me too much of a line of freight cars that got caught in a flood. For that reason, I never got any of their boxcars. Life-like eventually got the freight car loads from Ertl, which Walthers later used some of those. |
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Post by bn7023 on Apr 26, 2024 11:11:12 GMT -8
Thank you everyone for your comments. After learning a lot about this model, I started to love it. NP is also one of the predecessor railways of BN. I'll keep it handy and try to come up with ideas.  996  |
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Post by Mr. Trainiac on Apr 26, 2024 16:09:54 GMT -8
way too old for my modeling window but i've always liked those ertl cars, i remember clark propst had a few on his EXCELLENT M&STL story city branch layout that he had repainted/decaled into a model that stood alongside some high end resin kits or brass cars. I believe the LV gons are pretty close to the cars they used for float idlers in jersey city. I am still finding those Ertl flatcars, still N-I-B in my house - despite 3 moves. I bought a bunch when they were being closed-out for less than $10 a pop in the late 90's early 2000's as I planned on using them for a logging train to be pulled behind a then-new Bachmann Shay. Lombard Hobbies may still have some. They aren't on their website, but I remember seeing some in stores not that long ago. It's like the N Scale Reader's Digest SP train set; they are eternal. |
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Post by jbilbrey on Apr 26, 2024 16:52:38 GMT -8
Lombard Hobbies may still have some. They aren't on their website, but I remember seeing some in stores not that long ago. It's like the N Scale Reader's Digest SP train set; they are eternal. No thanks, I have enough, LOL. However, one of my friends and I have discussed in the past how the Ertl cars seemingly just disappeared from the secondary market at the local shows in our area. We just about never see an Ertl box. And when we do, it is usually something like the six-row cornhead loads. |
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Post by wagnersteve on Apr 26, 2024 18:03:48 GMT -8
2/26/2024, about 9:53 p.m., EDT
For what it's worth, I bought most of my Ertl HO cars at the former Great American Train Store chain, mostly at the Natick Mall west of Boston. It was quite well stocked, though the staff didn't know model railroading. That was also a great place to browse through new railroad books; nobody bothered you. That mall had a few other major attractions for me before it became highly gentrified. One was a huge Sears Roebuck store with good work clothing, tools, an auto shop and a place where you could pick up things you ordered from the Sears catalog. Another was good but modestly priced restaurants including a California Pizza Kitchen -- that one is still there. Two major department stores. Three places where I could find women's garments my wife wanted that I'd never heard of. During the Christmas season, a really good temporary calendar store. Perhaps what I most miss was a huge Continental bakery nearby that got ingredients by rail for making Wonder Bread and Hostess Cakes, served by an active freight-only branch line from near the downtown Natick station on the former Boston & Albany main line. Nearly all of those disappeared yars ago.
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Post by lvrr325 on Apr 26, 2024 19:29:00 GMT -8
Lombard Hobbies may still have some. They aren't on their website, but I remember seeing some in stores not that long ago. It's like the N Scale Reader's Digest SP train set; they are eternal. No thanks, I have enough, LOL. However, one of my friends and I have discussed in the past how the Ertl cars seemingly just disappeared from the secondary market at the local shows in our area. We just about never see an Ertl box. And when we do, it is usually something like the six-row cornhead loads. Funny you should say that, I've been carrying one of those for years. I think I might have finally sold it in the last few months. I had forgotten until I saw you mention them. |
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Post by bn7023 on Apr 27, 2024 6:35:07 GMT -8
C&NW USRA 40-ton 40-ft double-sheathed boxcar (ERTL) As mentioned above, I only have one ERTL product, not a flatcar, but a boxcar. Looking at it, I think this is also an "Unnessesarily Awesome" model. The first issue is heavy weathering around the underbody and trucks that is unnatural and too strong. The second is the manufacturer's name and country of origin printed on the coupler pockets, and the third is the double floor inside. Nevertheless, the necessary weight is not included and the wheels are plastic. I'm worried about the weight of the flatcar and gondola. Another structural problem is that broken couplers cannot be replaced.  Heavy weathering that you either love or hate    Manufacturer name printing increases costs  Useless double floor and added weights  The "50-ft" on the package is incorrect for "40-ft" or "40-ton."  Can "NEW 5-19" and "BLT 2-20" coexist with stencils? 1200If we consider the period 1997-1999, they are extremely unbalanced. This is probably a result of overconfidence in the low manufacturing costs in China. This is believed to have been the reason why the company had no choice but to withdraw from this business early.
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Apr 27, 2024 9:23:02 GMT -8
Another structural problem is that broken couplers cannot be replaced. Oh? News to me. I have replaced couplers on several of these. Simply unscrew the trucks and part of the underframe comes off allowing you to replace the couplers. |
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Post by jbilbrey on Apr 27, 2024 15:19:20 GMT -8
C&NW USRA 40-ton 40-ft double-sheathed boxcar (ERTL) As mentioned above, I only have one ERTL product, not a flatcar, but a boxcar. Looking at it, I think this is also an "Unnessesarily Awesome" model. The first issue is heavy weathering around the underbody and trucks that is unnatural and too strong. The second is the manufacturer's name and country of origin printed on the coupler pockets, and the third is the double floor inside. Nevertheless, the necessary weight is not included and the wheels are plastic. I'm worried about the weight of the flatcar and gondola. Another structural problem is that broken couplers cannot be replaced. If what Colin 't Hart suggested doesn't work, then insert a small flathead screwdriver between the coupler and the coupler lid and gently pry the lid up and off. I'm petty sure that couple pocket lids on the flatcar that I replaced the couplers were just press-fit. |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Apr 27, 2024 15:48:39 GMT -8
Can "NEW 5-19" and "BLT 2-20" coexist with stencils? No. BLT is the date of first construction. NEW appears to indicate a significant rebuild--not super sure on that.
NEW will never be earlier than BLT.
Correction on that NEW: from 1937 Car Builders' Cyclopedia: following the data entry of LT WT and the value thereof (on the car side data area), there will be either NEW, followed by the build date, OR a station symbol and date for the latest reweigh. So the car will sport a NEW until it gets reweighed. And the NEW date always is the BLT date. Or so it appears. Ed |
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Post by wagnersteve on Apr 27, 2024 16:13:01 GMT -8
4/27/2024, starting about 8:07 p.m., EDT
I have eight Ertl HO freight cars on the steam era (by my definition, pre-1956, the year of the B&M's last regular use of steam locos) part of my roster. Namely, two 40' USRA double-sheathed boxcars (B&M and Lackawanna); one 40' flatcar (B&M); and five 40' low-side steel gondolas (ACL, CNJ, LV, MEC and Seaboard). All are, in my opinion, at least reasonable stand-ins for real cars. I stand by what I posted earlier about some of the larger lettering and heralds, at least on boxcars, being a bit oversized. At one point I gave my first Ertl Maine Central gon to a good friend who had spent considerable time in Maine; I bought another one of those when I found one for sale.
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Apr 29, 2024 1:45:52 GMT -8
C&NW USRA 40-ton 40-ft double-sheathed boxcar (ERTL) As mentioned above, I only have one ERTL product, not a flatcar, but a boxcar. Looking at it, I think this is also an "Unnessesarily Awesome" model. The first issue is heavy weathering around the underbody and trucks that is unnatural and too strong. The second is the manufacturer's name and country of origin printed on the coupler pockets, and the third is the double floor inside. Nevertheless, the necessary weight is not included and the wheels are plastic. I'm worried about the weight of the flatcar and gondola. Another structural problem is that broken couplers cannot be replaced. If what Colin 't Hart suggested doesn't work, then insert a small flathead screwdriver between the coupler and the coupler lid and gently pry the lid up and off. I'm petty sure that couple pocket lids on the flatcar that I replaced the couplers were just press-fit. You might be right actually. Either way, it wasn't difficult. |
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