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Post by tonycook on Apr 14, 2013 12:06:07 GMT -8
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Post by tankcarsrule on Apr 14, 2013 16:52:47 GMT -8
Thanks Tony, that was a blast from the fun and simple past.
Bobby
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Post by buffalobill on Apr 14, 2013 17:57:23 GMT -8
Brings back memories of Bruce and Charley promoting their products at shows in the NY City area about 40 to 45 years a ago. Hard to believe those crude brass creations were once the only way to obtain certain models.
Bill
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Post by trebor on Apr 15, 2013 7:23:54 GMT -8
Ah yes, the grinding,sputtering sound of mis-matched brass units, shorting frames through KD's. Yes those werethe days.
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Post by atsfan on Apr 15, 2013 7:49:33 GMT -8
Ah yes, the grinding,sputtering sound of mis-matched brass units, shorting frames through KD's. Yes those werethe days. There was a big deal about repowering these. Also people just ran them as dummy engines. I remember articles on insulating the frames and couplers. They were the only game in town though. You can still see many old Alco Brass engines (never painted) at brass dealers. Not sure who buys them and for what nowadays. |
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Post by Spikre on Apr 16, 2013 11:08:35 GMT -8
Tony, a nice view of the past. still have a copy here,was there ever a Volume 2 ?? but all but 1 RS-3 body are now gone,the RS-3 will be mounted on an Atlas frame some day. Spikre  |
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Post by tonycook on Apr 16, 2013 19:49:03 GMT -8
Tony, a nice view of the past. still have a copy here,was there ever a Volume 2 ?? Spikre Though Alco Models makes just into the 1980s, to my knowledge there never is another catalog produced by them. Tony Cook HO-Scale Trains Resource ho-scaletrains.net/ |
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Post by Brakie on Apr 17, 2013 4:53:02 GMT -8
Well as a teenager I loved my 4 RS1s and didn't have issues with KD couplers shortening the frame..I use a KD washer as a insulator.  I lived with the coffee grinding noise since that was common in the 60s after all 90% of the Columbus HO club had brass or the older coffee grinders from Penn-Line,Varney,Hobbytown etc. I kinda miss those simple innocent days. |
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Post by trebor on Apr 17, 2013 6:21:31 GMT -8
My first brass was a U33C then a C643DH. Both ran like choo choo poo poo. They got traded in on Athearn's first run of F and FP45's. I later re-aquired 3 C643DH's and they repose in a box awaiting repowering. A DL721 is loling around made obsolete by Atlas' model. A DL702 still is the correct length vs. Atlas, but again is not a runner.
The ones that need replacement by plastic are a correct DL702, C855, U50C, EF3 EP5 E44 P5a would all be desireable.
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Post by Brakie on Apr 17, 2013 7:49:59 GMT -8
Both ran like choo choo poo poo.
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My RS1s wasn't stellar runners but,they ran well enough I used them at the club.I wouldn't call 'em choo choo poo poo not for that era..I would call 'em workable at best.
Most Advance modelers of the day replaced the Athearn drive with a Hobbytown drive.I had 2 Athearn/Hobbytown GP7s and that was the best combination to have if you wanted a powerful GP7.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Apr 17, 2013 8:09:48 GMT -8
Curiously, I got my Alco Models early U33C shell when the purchaser decided he wanted the drive only. I wonder how THAT worked out. The shell's still around here, somewhere, waiting for its "feet".
Ed
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Post by Brakie on Apr 17, 2013 11:17:53 GMT -8
I wonder how THAT worked out.
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Maybe he had a custom painted shell?
A lot of us ran these things so,it shouldn't be a shock to anybody..
Remember we ain't talking about having silky smooth running Atlas and Kato locomotives around.
Nobody else made Alco RS1s,RS11s RSD15 etc back then so,we ran 'em.
Yeah,its easy to talk the talk today but,how many actually walk the walk with the models we had back then and was happy to have 'em?
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Post by trebor on Apr 17, 2013 11:19:11 GMT -8
Curiously, I got my Alco Models early U33C shell when the purchaser decided he wanted the drive only. I wonder how THAT worked out. The shell's still around here, somewhere, waiting for its "feet". Ed I wish Atlas would do a early "flared" U33C. PC PC PC PC PC IC ICIC IC, you see?! |
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Post by buffalobill on Apr 17, 2013 18:53:10 GMT -8
They made great dummies in their time! Even with a lot of work they were only marginal runners. But as Larry points out the 70's were a different time. Not the options we have today.
Bill
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Post by thb401 on Apr 17, 2013 20:04:07 GMT -8
Thanks Tony. Lot of great memories there. Expensive junk is what I use to call it. I re powered a BP20 with a P2K PA motor and trucks when the PA's came out. Ran pretty good. Always thought there shells were pretty good. The coined trucks and drive were sad in any day. Bill |
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Post by Brakie on Apr 17, 2013 20:08:00 GMT -8
The coined trucks and drive were sad in any day.
Bill
I fully agree..The trucks on the Mantua GP20 beat the brass diesel trucks.Kinda sad,the GP20 made less noise then the brass diesels.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Apr 18, 2013 8:22:15 GMT -8
At least one Alco Models product had nice sideframes--their C636. I've still got my two tucked away. They're nicely built and I liked the running qualities of mine. They are certainly noisy. And they really should get wipers for all-wheel pickup. My two are aimed to becoming BN patched SP&S units. Should I live long enough. Still, I regard these particular units as keepers. And they are a known item, unlike the upcoming Bowser units.
We'll see.
Ed
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Post by detroitterminalii on Apr 18, 2013 20:25:58 GMT -8
When I was a kid (born in 1957) all I could do in the early seventies was look at the Alco Model ads in Model Railroader and dream. The prices were astronomical as far as my modeling budget was concerned. I had heard through the years that the locomotives were terrible runners and when I finally bought a few used products on eBay, I found their poor reputation to be apt. They made my Tyco locomotives look good in comparison. In fact, I found some of the brass models' construction to be similar, if not identical to Tyco's. For example, both brass and Tyco diesel locomotives had their sideframes attached to the trucks using the same concept and if one broke the attachment (as I did with both) one has to epoxy the sideframe back.
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Post by Brakie on Apr 19, 2013 2:52:27 GMT -8
I found their poor reputation to be apt. They made my Tyco locomotives look good in comparison.
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I was lucky enough to have a dad that insisted I learn the mechanics of model railroading since at that time it was more important then worrying about correct details like we do today..
While my four RS1s wasn't stellar runners they did run better then the off the shelf locomotives because I tweaked them...I even studied the possibility of repowering them.
Brass steam engines of the day was smooth runners straight from the box.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2013 4:39:15 GMT -8
My friend bought an Alco models N&W Jawn Henry steam turbine in the mid-1980's. Like most of those KMT built Jawn's its drive was horrendous. Some models couldn't even run much in a straight line.
The bodies and the aux tenders were really pretty well done. Great static display model.
My friend spent months gutting the drive completely. He installed can motors, new trucks and gears from Challenger Imports/Samhongsa, and new universals. It now ran like a Swiss watch. He painted and lightly weathered the model, eventually adding DCC.
A few years ago, before Division Point announced its model of Jawn, he sold the model to a Japanese collector for just under $4,000.
Many of the later production Alco models locomotive bodies are not poorly done. The castings, dimensions, etc. are nicely done. The KMT, drive though.......lets just say that they are NOT DCC friendly....
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Post by Brakie on Apr 19, 2013 6:34:31 GMT -8
lets just say that they are NOT DCC friendly....
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Simply because there was no DCC.. ;D
Those KMT drives was one step below the Varney diesel drive and like the Varney diesels we ran 'em..
The best diesel drives of that era(mid-late 60s) was Athearn and Hobbytown.
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Post by Spikre on Apr 19, 2013 10:26:08 GMT -8
 Larry, after Hobbytown upgraded thier drives in the late 50s/early 60s they were the best in HO. they still are rather good even with thier archiac electric pickup system. the FLYWHEELS and Oil-Lite Bearings still work great. some had the Oil-Lite bearings replaced by Nylon Bearings,best to change them out. there is still one Brass Diesel set here that runs great,a GOM FT A-B set imported by Hallmark about 1970. even though it uses a KMT Stack motor,the trucks have Bearings on the axles. installed the largest Athearn Black Flywheels on it,Athearn U-joints,and it runs great. someday will weight it and put better motors in it,maybe Pittman Stack double shaft motors,maybe Kato motors. will get to that when time allows. the powered B isnt factory stock,had 2 A-B sets,and a friend wanted the shells,so kept the A drive and put it under the B shell. Tony, thanks for the answer,always wondered if volume 2 had been missed somehow. Spikre ;D  
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Hergy
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Post by Hergy on Apr 22, 2013 6:47:03 GMT -8
It's unfortunate that somebody didn't come up with replacement trucks to retrofit the grinders. I managed to obtain about 4 pairs of trucks from W&R (I think) and Oriental. I think Samhongsa was the maker. With a can motor, these Locos were great runners. NWSL took care of us by providing gear boxes for steam rehabs. Too bad they didn't do the same for diesels. The best option would have been Athearn trucks but I could never figure out a way to utilize them.
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Post by Spikre on Apr 23, 2013 14:03:51 GMT -8
Hergy starting in the 80s retrofit Truck kits were available from Samhongsa,Hallmark was one source,there were others also. Overland/Ajin had Chassis kits that could be used in some models. today,Kato,Atlas, Genesis,Bowser/Stewart tucks are usable under some models also. some conversions use just the trucks and motors,others the whole chassis can be used,some do need work to fit. not all models need to be Dummies or Static displays. Spikre
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