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Post by sd80macs on Sept 17, 2013 15:59:45 GMT -8
Q1 Y
Q2 N
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Post by bikedude on Sept 18, 2013 9:09:40 GMT -8
Q1: Y
Q2: N
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Post by ambluco on Sept 18, 2013 10:22:39 GMT -8
N
N
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Post by WP 257 on Sept 18, 2013 12:30:00 GMT -8
No and No.
I really like the BLI E units, but the sound, which is arguably good, kills the performance. They run rather slowly, especially considering they are passenger diesels with 117 mph prototype top speeds, and it doesn't matter if it's DC or DCC--they don't run fast.
In my experience, I have yet to own an HO model where the performance was not adversely affected by the sound in some way.
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sd40a
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Post by sd40a on Sept 18, 2013 14:01:31 GMT -8
1. N
2. N
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Post by Chad on Sept 18, 2013 14:24:45 GMT -8
Looks like I will be the oddball.
Q1: N
Q2: Y
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Post by riogrande on Sept 18, 2013 14:39:19 GMT -8
1. N
2. N
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Post by bnsffan on Sept 18, 2013 15:28:23 GMT -8
1. N
2. Y
It would be interesting to see age and length of time as a modeler included to see if there is any correlation.
Respectfully,
BNSF Fan
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Post by fr8kar on Sept 18, 2013 19:03:45 GMT -8
Yes
No
Model sound just doesn't come close enough for me. Besides, I get enough of the real thing. I hear that lifeless electronic bell in my sleep.
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Post by spookyac47 on Sept 18, 2013 20:43:40 GMT -8
Q1: N . . . but worked around military aircraft for 6 years
Q2: Y
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Post by trebor on Sept 19, 2013 4:43:55 GMT -8
Y*
N
* VERY short time as trainman 20years ago. Into chooch models for 47 years. 53 years old.
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Post by WP 257 on Sept 19, 2013 6:59:14 GMT -8
Unable to edit post above; it's possible my work website is blocking the capability?
I'm 45, with 40 years of modeling or otherwise playing with HO trains, and my vote was no and no.
Sound in HO just doesn't cut it because the speakers are too small to do any good, and all the baffles and/or sound cavities in the world don't help enough...but that's my opinion.
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Post by mlehman on Sept 19, 2013 11:48:56 GMT -8
1) No*
2) Yes
* I haven't worked for a railroad, but did work in a heavy truck fleet garage. Used to hearing diesels idling and running. It's the sound of money, one way or the other.
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Post by curtmc on Sept 19, 2013 15:28:27 GMT -8
No (just many hours around them)
No (unless at about same price then considered)
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Post by roadkill on Sept 19, 2013 18:39:49 GMT -8
No...
and No.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2013 21:14:17 GMT -8
No - but do have significant experience working on running locomotives at a major museum
No - Due to my work at the museum, HO scale sound is on par with a cheap 1960's Japanese transistor radios, complete with the ear piece, not a state of the art stereo system. The sound coming out of the HO scale model is shrill and lacks bass. When you are standing by a prototype or real locomotive you feel the sound. Sound is technically pressure that our ear feels and you feel the pressure when by the real thing.
I was standing track side when the Norfolk & Western A-Class went thundering by at about 40-45 mph. I felt the ground rumbling before the A-Class came around the bend in the track!. I felt like the whistle on the A went through me, when it was blowing for the grade crossing. I had an O-Gauge A-Class from Lionel which has a very good sound set up. Totally prototype sounds and big speaker because its O. Compared to the HO A-Class from BLI, the O model is far superior. But even the bigger O model doesn't make you feel like you are standing by the real 1216.
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Post by Brakie on Sept 21, 2013 2:56:08 GMT -8
Q1 Yes..
Q2 No.I usually mute the sound after 20-30 minutes.
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Post by brokenrail on Sept 21, 2013 22:29:33 GMT -8
1.) Yes
2.) Not sure, my models are on the shelf now awaiting a layout. I've been buying DCC ready and DCC/Sound both. I do have to say I've heard enough locomotive noise to last a lifetime. I do like the sound of GP9 reving up but I really think the turbocharged units are just noise. So maybe I'll stick to sound with old EMD's, early GE's and any older Baldwin/Alco/FM I might have a use for.
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Post by catt on Sept 23, 2013 1:55:15 GMT -8
Q 1 N
Q 2 N
68 years old been modeling this time sinve 1979.
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Sept 23, 2013 5:39:06 GMT -8
1:No
2:Yes most of the time, but like Peddler, get enough after awhile.
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Post by mlehman on Sept 23, 2013 7:36:05 GMT -8
Interesting results, but I'm not sure how much statistical significance is there. People who want sound rarely seem to feel a need to explain why -- and were probably less likely to take the poll anyway. To them, it's intuitive. Sure, it's not a perfect reproduction of the prototype, but that seems to have rarely discouraged purchasers of the latest in sound reproduction technology over the years, starting with those wax cylinders... Sound is obviously a significant part of the market share. It's rare that a new loco is announced that doesn't either have sounds or anticipates it's installation. The folks who want to make money selling locos seem to feel it's kinda important, anyway. On the other hand, people who dislike sound in model locos seem to feel a need to articulate why not simply beyond it being a personal preference. I can see just not needing the extra noise, given that hearing loss is frequently associated with RR service and extra noise makes it difficult to listen to other sound. I know, as I have non-RR-related hearing loss. Or even just because trains didn't have sound when they were kids, so that's still good enough for them. But the fact of the matter, if the issue is hearing loss, is that it's probably a preference that applies more generally to all sound-generating devices, not just model locos... Good thing all those iPods, iPhones, and Droids have earbuds, right?  An at least equally interesting question to me is "Where do you set the volume?" My locos are dialed way down from the usually too loud factory settings. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2013 9:38:11 GMT -8
Sound is obviously a significant part of the market share. It's rare that a new loco is announced that doesn't either have sounds or anticipates it's installation. The folks who want to make money selling locos seem to feel it's kinda important, anyway. On the other hand, people who dislike sound in model locos seem to feel a need to articulate why not simply beyond it being a personal preference. An at least equally interesting question to me is "Where do you set the volume?" My locos are dialed way down from the usually too loud factory settings. 1. In today's hobby non-sound locomotive models must either have a decoder installed(Intermountain) or have either an 8 or 9 pin plug. As a person that does some selling on e-Bay I can tell you that some will not bid if it the model is NOT DCC ready. 2. Sound equipped models may be expensive, but they seem to sell out faster than the DCC ready models. I'm just basing my assumption on looking at sites like Klein's, etc.. I could be totally dead wrong too. 3. Sound is mostly cranked up to the max on factory installed sound locomotives. Turning down the volume a little or a lot, especially if the layout is in a smaller room, might not be a bad idea. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2013 9:48:29 GMT -8
As a railroader, and long-time modeler, I suspect the reason is that railroaders realize, more than non-railroaders, that the sounds that they are so familiar with just do not scale down well- at all. After devoting a portion of my life as a volunteer at a major northern Illinois museum, I realized from the first time I heard a sound HO scale locomotive, that it reminded me of a cheap transistor radio from the 1960's. Sound is pressure generated on our ear drums. When standing by a running SD45 as it throttles up with a load, you feel the pressure on your body. In model form, sure the sound is the like the prototype, but you don't feel it. As I stated in my response. I will never forget standing track side when the N&W A-Class went thundering by at 40-45. You felt the earth trembling, the nicely done BLI A-Class with sound doesn't even come close to what I felt that day. |
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Post by valenciajim on Sept 23, 2013 16:02:31 GMT -8
Q1-No
Q2-Yes
Not sure how relevent these results are statistically. This is not a random sample.
I still enjoy the responses.
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Post by mlehman on Sept 23, 2013 16:09:06 GMT -8
As a railroader, and long-time modeler, I suspect the reason is that railroaders realize, more than non-railroaders, that the sounds that they are so familiar with just do not scale down well- at all. After devoting a portion of my life as a volunteer at a major northern Illinois museum, I realized from the first time I heard a sound HO scale locomotive, that it reminded me of a cheap transistor radio from the 1960's. Sound is pressure generated on our ear drums. When standing by a running SD45 as it throttles up with a load, you feel the pressure on your body. In model form, sure the sound is the like the prototype, but you don't feel it. SNIP If you need that sort of sound, there is the infamous subwoofer, made familiar by every teenage with a car who can afford a stereo after paying for gas. It's true that model railroad sound installs typically lack the complete "presence" of real life. But if you want that, it's available. Fact of the matter is, most people who operate with sound actually aren't looking for that on the model or realize it would be a bit tricky with a half-dozen operators in the basement  I suppose that makes those of us who like just a little sound to get us in the RR mood dilettantes? I don't play video games, but I have read some on game theory, etc, because I have some marginal interest in virtual reality. Do they need super-realistic sound to be enjoyed? Based on sales -- and piracy!  -- not really. But as I suggest with car stereos and now video games, that's only necessary if that's a personal preference. A few gamers do really go all out to maximize delivery of sound with some pretty hardcore gear to do it. Most kids listen to MP3 version of songs on really cruddy sound devices, which sound horrible to my ears (nevermind the content  ) But then I'm a child of the late 60s/early 70s and still take a little pride in my home stereo. It even has a sub-woofer (more for movies than anything else, though.) No sub in the truck, but a decent sound, good enough I can hear the difference between standard CD encoding and MP3s. But 90% of folks these days would not even know what you're talking about when you mention they could hear a better sounding version. Are they all stupid? Nope, their priorities and tastes are just different. Just like with MRR sound. I am curious about the connection between railroaders, lack of desire for sound, and the quality of sound available. Is the argument that RRers just don't want sound or that sound is so bad they won't put up with what's currently available RTR? Because one fork has no solution -- can't help the tone-deaf -- while the other suggests manufacturers should put more effort in hooking up subwoofers to DCC sound systems? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2013 17:28:39 GMT -8
I am curious about the connection between railroaders, lack of desire for sound, and the quality of sound available. Is the argument that RRers just don't want sound or that sound is so bad they won't put up with what's currently available RTR? Because one fork has no solution -- can't help the tone-deaf -- while the other suggests manufacturers should put more effort in hooking up subwoofers to DCC sound systems? I assume he is saying sound equipped models do not have prototypical sound or does not respond like the prototype. The pages on this forum have been filled with people saying the sound lags behind the throttle settings. Sound is a subject that has no right answer. You have some, like myself, that like Tsunami and then you have the LOK, QSI, Paragon, etc. sound supporters. Which is better? Its all a personal taste. |
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Post by mlehman on Sept 23, 2013 18:51:11 GMT -8
I assume he is saying sound equipped models do not have prototypical sound or does not respond like the prototype. The pages on this forum have been filled with people saying the sound lags behind the throttle settings. Sound is a subject that has no right answer. You have some, like myself, that like Tsunami and then you have the LOK, QSI, Paragon, etc. sound supporters. Which is better? Its all a personal taste. I have to agree. Whether or not you appreciate sound locos is pretty much a personal decision. No one is going to be able to convince you one way or the other. You either get it or you don't. There are still people out there who insist that whole stereo thing is overrated and mono does just fine. OK, but I'll still take mine in stereo, please. One thing is certain. The market has spoken. Sound is here to stay. And it's getting better. The TCS WOW is just outstanding based on the reports I've seen from beta testers. The Tsunami is really long in tooth. I rather expect a new generation Tsunami sooner, rather then later. Will that satisfy some who so far haven't been impressed with sound? probably, for some. I know I was an early doubter on sound, but came around as it got better. I don't doubt that there are those who want better sound and that's a good thing. But I see nothing to be gained in trying to convince satisfied sound users they're deceiving themselves. After all, modeling is itself based on deception from Square One. No way is my model loco, no matter how exquisite, going to be mistaken for the 1:1. Does that cause me to abandon model railroading? I don't think so. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2013 20:00:45 GMT -8
I assume he is saying sound equipped models do not have prototypical sound or does not respond like the prototype. The pages on this forum have been filled with people saying the sound lags behind the throttle settings. Sound is a subject that has no right answer. You have some, like myself, that like Tsunami and then you have the LOK, QSI, Paragon, etc. sound supporters. Which is better? Its all a personal taste. I have to agree. Whether or not you appreciate sound locos is pretty much a personal decision. No one is going to be able to convince you one way or the other. You either get it or you don't. There are still people out there who insist that whole stereo thing is overrated and mono does just fine. OK, but I'll still take mine in stereo, please. One thing is certain. The market has spoken. Sound is here to stay. And it's getting better. The TCS WOW is just outstanding based on the reports I've seen from beta testers. The Tsunami is really long in tooth. I rather expect a new generation Tsunami sooner, rather then later. Will that satisfy some who so far haven't been impressed with sound? probably, for some. I know I was an early doubter on sound, but came around as it got better. I don't doubt that there are those who want better sound and that's a good thing. But I see nothing to be gained in trying to convince satisfied sound users they're deceiving themselves. After all, modeling is itself based on deception from Square One. No way is my model loco, no matter how exquisite, going to be mistaken for the 1:1. Does that cause me to abandon model railroading? I don't think so. I think some of the "stink" over sound is the price. Sound models are in the $300 MSRP range or above and that seems to be burr under a few saddles. In fact some of the dust ups on this forum has price as the root of the argument. Those who feel or truly are being priced out of the market, don't need the one's who's pockets are flush telling them to quite crabbing. Model railroading and affordability is no different than many other hobbies. I like 1960's full-size Chevy's. On a Chevy forum I browse at times, you will have the guy with the $50,000+ Impala SS427 and or a stable of classics, while on the other end of spectrum you have some poor guy trying to work on a four door sedan with an inline six and three on the tree. Both love their cars, but the one with the deep pockets many times can't understand and proceed to tell someone they are "wasting their time on a more door sedan". Seen enough of the ones with less drop off of the forum, because they feel they don't "fit in". I agree sound is here to stay and should get better. Just go dig out a copy of MR and brush up on the CTC16 system, which you had to build yourself! We've come a long long way. |
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Post by mlehman on Sept 23, 2013 21:06:50 GMT -8
I think some of the "stink" over sound is the price. Sound models are in the $300 MSRP range or above and that seems to be burr under a few saddles. In fact some of the dust ups on this forum has price as the root of the argument. Those who feel or truly are being priced out of the market, don't need the one's who's pockets are flush telling them to quite crabbing. SNIP If it costs too much and you don't like it anyway, I think someone grousing from that point of view is a bit mixed up anyway. You don't want it, so who cares how much it costs? But such is the internet. What I always find odd about price-whining and model railroading is you can build a layout or whatever to fit any budget and have a heck of a good time. Where folks seem to get all disgruntled is when they have an expectation of much more than they can afford. Hey, I'd like to drive a new LandCruiser (~$80000), but I'm driving a 16 year old one ($7200 and probably a more capable vehicle.) Good thing my tastes in vehicles don't make model railroading unaffordable for me. But that would be my personal problem, not something to impose on others. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2013 6:13:13 GMT -8
What I always find odd about price-whining and model railroading is you can build a layout or whatever to fit any budget and have a heck of a good time. Where folks seem to get all disgruntled is when they have an expectation of much more than they can afford. Hey, I'd like to drive a new LandCruiser (~$80000), but I'm driving a 16 year old one ($7200 and probably a more capable vehicle.) Good thing my tastes in vehicles don't make model railroading unaffordable for me. But that would be my personal problem, not something to impose on others. There is a lot imposing at times on the net.... Too many times folks let emotion take the place of thoughtfulness. Been there done that...and guilty as charged. |
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