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Post by el3637 on May 26, 2012 22:40:24 GMT -8
Am I the first kid on the block? I guess so. My SLHS says he had a total of 6 on order, but I think I'm the only one who ordered the block letter version, so mine was the first. This of course is a two edged sword.
First impression: ok, this is an impression I had even before today... I wasn't real keen on the giant "train set" box. Big flat boxes are prone to abuse, even with triple-boxing. I think this set would have been much better off in a "brick" type package, with the cars and locos individually boxed and packed into a brick shape, maybe 3 wide and 4-5 high, something like that. It's still the same overall weight but it's not a big flying piece of tile.
So.
Second impression: I didn't try to unpack or look at anything in the store. For one thing, I didn't want to leave any parts laying on the counter or floor, and TBQH, if you don't have about 6-8 feet of open floor space, you're already in trouble.
So.
I got it home, and with company coming tomorrow we had grocery shopping and chores and all. I unboxed the Canadian from it's two outer boxes and bubble stuff - much easier to carry that way (it has a handle) and placed it upstairs. 4 hours of domestic labor, dinner and a movie later, I'm upstairs unpacking it.
This is blow by blow here so bear with me... I see an end L-grab pressed into the foam next to one of the cars, so I know I need to find out where that belongs. Then I see a wheelset under the observation car. I don't mean in a truck, just sort of "at large". Ok. One dislodged wheelset one grab off. Not bad.
I set the obs on the track... whoa! Yep, it has track powered lights. And they're green. Or yellow, depending on your point of view. And they're bright. As in daylight bright. As in, those dome passengers won't be able to see squat at night, but they'll be able to read their magazines with sunglasses on.
One by one I unpack the cars. The finish overall looks good, with some dull spots here and there. Assembly work is good, and I'm not seeing any leftover pieces. I get all 10 cars on the track and roll them along on the Kato Karpet Route. Something on the obs is going thunk-thunk when it passes over a turnout. Not the coupler trip pin, something in the middle. Lots of low hanging fruit there, so maybe something is dislodged. So I postpone further tweaking - remember this is out of the box and onto the rail RTR testing - although Jason's instructions hint at the possibility of parts getting knocked.
Ok now it's time to unpack the lokeemotives. I carefully push the left FP9 up and out, inside its little plastic tray which reminds me considerably of the plastic tray that my New York white cheddar cheese slices come in. I see a loose part... not too much of a surprise... peel the top of the tray off and lift the loco up and out.
You know how the Jim Croce song "Bad Bad Leroy Brown" ends? "Leroy looked like a jig saw puzzle with a couple of pieces gone".
Yep, this FP9 looks like it lost a bar fight, and it all took place within the little cheese packaging tray. The pilot is knocked completely off and hanging at an odd angle, one numberboard is out.... and I'm thinking ok, I can fix that... then I see the first smashed stirrup. And the next smashed stirrup. And the next.
Carefully setting it aside, I notice all of the intricate roof details seem to be intact, the paint job is decent, the stainless grill looks cool.
I pull the dummy B unit out of its cheese tray, and it's in pretty good shape - nothing broken, nothing missing.
I pull the right facing FP9 out. I'm thinking ok, cool - pilot is on there, number boards... and 3 or 4 stirrups are smashed. Not broken clean off, but smashed to one side each in 3-4 pieces. I tried to retrieve the bits, some still hanging on. The cheese box was hermetically sealed, so they've got to be in there although I think they may be inside the loco. Interestingly it's not just the end stirrups but the middle ones on the rear truck, and the truck itself seems to have done the deed - the spring hanger on the Blomberg is bent upward.
I decided to just carefully pull the broken stirrups off and see what I can do to salvage them. By now I'm no longer on the Karpet but at the bench. So the moment of truth - I take the right side FP, the one with the lesser damage. On the track, select 03 - on my bench NCE Powercab. It fires right up. Sound and all that. Sound reset a couple times, but my bench track is dry and needs cleaning.
The headlight is. Green.
It seems to run ok. I haven't test run the other FP yet.
These are first impressions red hot off the bench... have not checked coupler height yet, have not run the train yet. I have moved my 18-car Broadway Limited to the inside where it's presently running perfectly in OOB condition (Walthers did finally get down 99.9% of this "ready to run" thing) through double sets of switches, freeing up the straight line main - turnouts but all straight through - for the Canadian's maiden voyage. It's 2:39 am... it's Memorial Day weekend.
Stay tuned.... yes, I'm taking pictures.
Andy
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2012 4:18:03 GMT -8
Loved the review Andy and had a good laugh too at some your analogies.
When are the manufacturers going to realize that a clear plastic tray to hold a DELICATE and I mean DELICATE model isn't the best option? Athearn has vacillated all over the map with the Genesis line. Even though it was total pain in the backside the block o' masonite and two honking big screws actually kept the model in one piece. My recent Genesis F's have come in the plastic craddle, but that is then sits it a foam inside the box which seems to work out "okay".
Smashed steps is never a good thing, especially for the price paid for this "train set". Loose parts are still not good, but as long as you know where the go and that those parts are not broken off isn't the end of the world. But the smashed steps seems to indicate that this set had some rough handling.
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Post by calzephyr on May 27, 2012 5:26:00 GMT -8
Andy
You really mean green or just a tint? I have several models that have awful yellow, realy light redish and well, you probably have seen them all. With all of the great white and sunny white, I can't understand why any company would get it wrong!
Thanks for the review.
Jason will probably respond to it if he made the switch to our forum. I had purchased three of his coach cars and had problems with them, but he offered to fix them.
It sounds like the shipping packages for the individual cars and locomotives need to be changed and improved.
I like the comment about the riders having to wear sunglasses because of the bright lights. Interior lighting is another area that I avoid since most of time it is way too bright. MTH has done the best job of interior lighting for passenger cars compared to any company I have seen. I purchased their Daylight and the N&W set which have the charge up type of capacitor set to avoid flicker and the lighting is a soft dim look.
Thanks again for the review.
Larry
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Post by riogrande on May 27, 2012 6:04:39 GMT -8
Sounds kind of like the packaging for the loco's wasn't adequate to protect them on their long journey from China? bummer about all the smashed styrups! =( Considering the cost of that set, I would have been disappointed. The Canadian is a beautiful passenger train and if I had a spare grand laying around, I'd be tempted. Well, I do have a spare grand, but I'm saving it so I can some day be a real person and buy a small "Norman Bates" house some day so I can actually have space to build a layout and run what I've got!
Thanks for the review and we can only hope that others arrive in better shape.
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Post by rhpd42002 on May 27, 2012 7:04:37 GMT -8
Andy, sorry about the damage you've got. I'm sure in the end, all will be taken care of, but...... I agree, packaging, packaging, packaging. All that beautiful work and you get bent/broken steps and rails.  Like your review and looking forward to the rest of it and the pics. |
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Post by el3637 on May 27, 2012 10:50:52 GMT -8
Andy You really mean green or just a tint? I have several models that have awful yellow, realy light redish and well, you probably have seen them all. It's more green than amber - it's the other end of the spectrum from the jack-o-lantern orange you see on the Intermountain AC12s. Like I say it's kind of a matter of perception - it looks more green than yellow to me, if you compare to the yellowish LEDs a lot of locos have. The loco headlight and number board lights seem to be the same color as the interior lighting in the passenger cars. What's also a bit garish is the tail end of the observation lounge. It has red marker LEDs, and those illuminate the inside as well as the outside so the obs fades from green into disco red in the last 3-4 windows at the tail I think Jason is off for the holiday weekend. I have already heard from Bill, which I will post in this thread at his request. I have no doubt they will be able to fix or replace the damaged shells - my comments are mostly about the packaging and Bill said they are already making changes there. The big flat box makes for a very impressive display - when you open the velcro flap, it has this big "train set" look to it which has a lot of appeal. I just don't think it's the best way to ship it. Bill said they arrived largely undamaged in the container, but that would have been in larger skids. The individual boxes being sent through the postal system or whatever are going to get rougher handling. The shipping carton showed no signs of distress, but it's obvious that it took some knocks when you look at the locos. I have the Powhatan as well. The cap lighting works well. IMO it's still a tad too bright. You really should not be able to see the lighting in daylight or normal room lighting, but in twilight it should become visible. Domes should not be lit at all, or should have very small floor lights for safety (theater lights). The Rapido domes appear to have some floor mounted LEDs - when you view the train from the typical "helicopter view" it looks like somebody's busy welding in there. Andy |
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Post by el3637 on May 27, 2012 10:53:22 GMT -8
Bill Schneider's responses on the PCL so far:
-------------------
and:
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Post by rhpd42002 on May 27, 2012 11:03:04 GMT -8
Definitely one of the companines out there with Class.  |
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Post by riogrande on May 27, 2012 13:00:20 GMT -8
Well, if you think about it, the powered engines should weigh the most so there will be more inertia forcing the sides against the packaging, and the weaker parts may be damaged. So it does make sense that if anything, the engines would get damage. The trick will be to package them in such a way the holds the styrups and other area's most prone to impact damage away from the sides of any packaging, or hollow out the packaging around those parts, and perhaps the pilot. Apparently the plastic holder must deform enough that the styrups came into contact and crushed.
Unforunately those YouTube video's of the FEDEX or UPS guys tossing boxes around and over fences are probably more common than you'd think, so our model trains have to withstand those irresponsible jerks who want to play soccer with our trains while getting paid for it.
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Post by onequiknova on May 28, 2012 9:34:04 GMT -8
Packaging the shell separate from the heavy chassis, the way Proto used to do, would probably eliminate most of the damage happening these days.
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Post by Mark R. on May 28, 2012 13:21:53 GMT -8
Has Jason had anything to say about why the headlights / numberboards / roof light used GREEN LEDs ? I've even heard of reports of having seen one green numberboard and one white one !
Mark.
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Post by el3637 on May 28, 2012 22:31:25 GMT -8
Has Jason had anything to say about why the headlights / numberboards / roof light used GREEN LEDs ? I've even heard of reports of having seen one green numberboard and one white one ! No comment there, but it's the same yellow/green color as Rapido's other lighting units. I don't see myself doing anything about it right away. I did hear from Jason on the PCL - apparently I'm not the only one with smashed side steps on the locos. He's thinking about tooling up separate parts that could be attached with a tab on the inside to replace them. If I get those parts, and take the shells off - then I may re-do the headlights with bulbs. I probably won't mess with the interior lighting in the passenger cars though. Andy |
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Post by bnsf971 on May 29, 2012 3:58:11 GMT -8
I agree with Bill about those "Fragile" stickers seeming to be targets. Last week I got a box with a sticker that said "FRAGILE DO NOT CRUSH" smashed flat with a size 12 bootprint directly in the center. Not the center of the box, the center of the sticker.
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Post by calzephyr on May 29, 2012 7:06:31 GMT -8
Has Jason had anything to say about why the headlights / numberboards / roof light used GREEN LEDs ? I've even heard of reports of having seen one green numberboard and one white one ! No comment there, but it's the same yellow/green color as Rapido's other lighting units. I don't see myself doing anything about it right away. I did hear from Jason on the PCL - apparently I'm not the only one with smashed side steps on the locos. He's thinking about tooling up separate parts that could be attached with a tab on the inside to replace them. If I get those parts, and take the shells off - then I may re-do the headlights with bulbs. I probably won't mess with the interior lighting in the passenger cars though. Andy Andy Please post some pictures of the cars when you have time. I would like to see the details and look of the cars. Sorry about the damage to the diesels. It is very disappointing to get some new complete train and have to repair damage. My Rapido coach cars had damage in the shipping process and the lighting assembly board and led's broke away from the roof of two of the cars. Larry |
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Post by rapidotrains on May 29, 2012 7:53:58 GMT -8
Hi all, We've found the damage on some units very frustrating, and I'm sorry if you get a train that has damage - if you do, please call Dan at the office - 1-877-738-6445. There have been very few damage reports from inside Canada. Almost all are coming from the US. We've shipped seven times as many trains inside Canada as we have into the US. Yet we've had twice as many damage reports from the US as we have had in Canada. To test our packaging, we had a complete, packaged set sent by courier from China to Toronto, from Toronto to Calgary, and from Calgary to Toronto. No stirrups were broken on any of these trips, although on the way back from Calgary we didn't pack the F-units very well and some roof details were damaged. Obviously, after surviving those trips we thought our packaging was strong enough. In contrast, several sets that went to US distributors are getting bashed, with the stirrups and other problems. We are redesigning the packaging from the ground up to help fix this, but it is impossible to protect a train with 4000 parts from being damaged when thrown over fences and off of trucks. If I could design packaging for a complete train that is a manageable size yet will survive being thrown from six feet in the air onto concrete, I'd probably be a famous physicist or structural engineer earning a lot more money than I am now...  -Jason |
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Post by calzephyr on May 29, 2012 8:27:28 GMT -8
Hi all, We've found the damage on some units very frustrating, and I'm sorry if you get a train that has damage - if you do, please call Dan at the office - 1-877-738-6445. There have been very few damage reports from inside Canada. Almost all are coming from the US. We've shipped seven times as many trains inside Canada as we have into the US. Yet we've had twice as many damage reports from the US as we have had in Canada. To test our packaging, we had a complete, packaged set sent by courier from China to Toronto, from Toronto to Calgary, and from Calgary to Toronto. No stirrups were broken on any of these trips, although on the way back from Calgary we didn't pack the F-units very well and some roof details were damaged. Obviously, after surviving those trips we thought our packaging was strong enough. In contrast, several sets that went to US distributors are getting bashed, with the stirrups and other problems. We are redesigning the packaging from the ground up to help fix this, but it is impossible to protect a train with 4000 parts from being damaged when thrown over fences and off of trucks. If I could design packaging for a complete train that is a manageable size yet will survive being thrown from six feet in the air onto concrete, I'd probably be a famous physicist or structural engineer earning a lot more money than I am now... -Jason Jason Thanks for posting this message. The Canadian is a welcomed train to the market since it is a beautiful train and has never been available to the masses. This has been a great project and to see the damage to the product during shipment is disappointing to all of us and certainly for you. No doubt the weight of the total package probably causes more damage since the package has to be fairly heavy and kinetic motion causes damage. Thanks again. We look forward to more of your products that are high quality in both detail and fidelity. Larry |
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Post by riogrande on May 29, 2012 10:02:24 GMT -8
As much effort goes into proper packaging, the shipping services in the US seem to be open to alot of abuse by the carriers. In a way it's a sad sign of the times that shipping companies have such a hard time hiring consciencous and careful workers, as we have seen examples of on YouTube. That makes it quite a challenge to have super detailed models survive such abuse. This is why i am annoyed when vendors ship me models which are not covered in peanuts or bubble wrap on all six sides. Very often models are direcctly against one or more sides of the boxes and shippers "think" this is sufficient. Of course the packaging of the models themselves is important too, which our good Mr. Shron is contending with now regarding the beautiful Canadian sets.
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Post by calzephyr on May 29, 2012 12:09:29 GMT -8
As much effort goes into proper packaging, the shipping services in the US seem to be open to alot of abuse by the carriers. In a way it's a sad sign of the times that shipping companies have such a hard time hiring consciencous and careful workers, as we have seen examples of on YouTube. That makes it quite a challenge to have super detailed models survive such abuse. This is why i am annoyed when vendors ship me models which are not covered in peanuts or bubble wrap on all six sides. Very often models are direcctly against one or more sides of the boxes and shippers "think" this is sufficient. Of course the packaging of the models themselves is important too, which our good Mr. Shron is contending with now regarding the beautiful Canadian sets. The testing of the shipping package that Jason described seemed to fairly extensive and the test boxes shipped from China and then two more shipments around Canada impressed me, but not the USA carriers. I have received a few boxes that a side or end has a large dent or tear now and then, but most of the time there is no damage to the inside box. Using bubble wrap on every side of each package inside certainly should help but carriers seem to toss packages with no regard to the contents. Maybe an explosive warning sign on train boxes would get an alert!!! Sorry, I just could not help myself. About two years ago, I received one of the MMI Die Cast On3 model K28 that had shifted in the box and damaged the cab, which is brass. The weight of the die cast model is very heavy and the packaging did not hold it in place. I was able to fix the damaged cab without too much effort, but shipping those locomotives in the standard box and shipping can result in major damage to the brass parts that detail the model. Plastic models like the F unit with all of the details need to be supported from every side to make sure they do not move, much like the latest Genesis packaging. Larry |
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Post by riogrande on May 29, 2012 13:42:02 GMT -8
Larry,
Yes, I read Jasons notes. It sounds like they have put a lot of effort to test the shipping and through some trials - all to his credit. There appear to be some folks in the shipping business who must, through laziness or spite, put packages through extra abuse. I guess the YouTube video's have been enough to scare many of them into being less rough - maybe alot more heads need to roll first! >:^D.
It sound like Canada has a better shipping industry as a rule. I am curious if all the good shipping in Canada was via the gov postal system or did they also use private like Fed Ex or UPS or another company?
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Post by calzephyr on May 29, 2012 13:55:27 GMT -8
Larry, Yes, I read Jasons notes. It sounds like they have put a lot of effort to test the shipping and through some trials - all to his credit. There appear to be some folks in the shipping business who must, through laziness or spite, put packages through extra abuse. I guess the YouTube video's have been enough to scare many of them into being less rough - maybe alot more heads need to roll first! >:^D. It sound like Canada has a better shipping industry as a rule. I am curious if all the good shipping in Canada was via the gov postal system or did they also use private like Fed Ex or UPS or another company? Maybe the Gold Standard for testing future model shipping fixtures is to use UPS, FedEx and our USPS for a three rounds of shipping and checking for damage between each carrier. The test package should have some warning signs like " Do not throw package and "Please do not step on me!! That should clue the carrier this is fair game and to start the torture testing. To be truthful, I have received a lot of packages over the years and almost all of them with no damage that could be contributed to the carrier. The MMI model I mentioned was not packed correctly and the weight caused it to shift and damage the cab. Larry |
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Post by riogrande on May 29, 2012 14:10:09 GMT -8
Maybe the Gold Standard for testing future model shipping fixtures is to use UPS, FedEx and our USPS for a three rounds of shipping and checking for damage between each carrier. The test package should have some warning signs like " Do not throw package and "Please do not step on me!! That should clue the carrier this is fair game and to start the torture testing. From what Jason said, if you mark a package fragile, it sounds like a reverse pyschology invitation for the carrier to abuse the box and drop kick it over the fence and aim for a concrete landing pad! When I was living at my sisters in South Riding VA, I happened to see a few UPS deliveries in progress, including one guy tossed a box about 10 feet up onto the porch - yes, concrete. That was probably mild by comparison to some but a 10 foot toss with the Canadian inside - *cringe* I've been lucky too where most of my models arrive ok. I had an Athearn RTR SD45T-2 arrive with the front truck hanging loose when I removed it from the clamshell holder - that was returned and replaced with another. Most of the others have had an odd part loose that could be glued back on. The worst case I had an intermountain 2-bay SP cement hopper where the box was compressed such that it was deformed, almost accordian style. I removed the 2-bay hopper and it looked ok - a testiment to the packaging! |
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Post by el3637 on May 29, 2012 21:15:50 GMT -8
As much effort goes into proper packaging, the shipping services in the US seem to be open to alot of abuse by the carriers. In a way it's a sad sign of the times that shipping companies have such a hard time hiring consciencous and careful workers, as we have seen examples of on YouTube. That makes it quite a challenge to have super detailed models survive such abuse. I would venture a guess that I've shipped well over 1000 model RR items to ebay buyers in the 13 years since I started selling my surplus. 99% of it via USPS, including international shipments. I don't think I've ever had a damage claim. In all of the years I've been buying stuff on ebay and from other mail order and on-line retailers, I've had very little shipping damage. I've had some large, heavy items like vintage projectors, tape recorders, and coffeepots shipped with virtually no packing material and they arrived destroyed. The seller told me to file a claim with the PO, and the PO would have laughed had they seen the packing. One was a 45-lb Webcor tape recorder that was stuck in a box slightly larger, with a couple pieces of newspaper. The wood top of the thing was smashed to bits. And a Sunbeam coffeemaster shipped in a too-small box with no packing... destroyed. In the case of the coffeepot, I returned the pieces - properly packed - and was issued a full refund by the apologetic seller. The lady who sold me the Webcor said she was "sorry it wasn't packed to my standards" and blamed the post office. The only reason I didn't leave negative feedback was because she had already left me positive. But train stuff - I can't even think of anything that has had shipping damage on its way from the seller to me, other than the expected knocked off parts on Athearn RTR stuff, but I don't even count that. Andy |
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Post by el3637 on May 29, 2012 21:23:56 GMT -8
From what Jason said, if you mark a package fragile, it sounds like a reverse pyschology invitation for the carrier to abuse the box and drop kick it over the fence and aim for a concrete landing pad! When dozens of people handle thousands of packages per day, do you think any of them look for "fragile" labels and be extra careful? They treat every package the same. Heck Fedex shoots them into sorting bins with an air cannon. If the stuff isn't packed to take it, it's going to get damaged. The Canadian's packaging makes for an impressive display, but IMO it's impractical for shipping. It's 26"x28"x4" (the main box) and it's then double boxed outside that. The box has a large molded foam liner, and the locos sit inside plastic clamshells inside the foam, but there's no packing inside the clamshell. Like I said, I can't really envision what kind of motion or hit could have caused the damage. And not knowing that, hard to say what could have prevented it. I just think a more compact "brick" package would have been a better choice, although without the nice "trainset" display aspect. The brick would weigh the same and have the same stuff in it, but wouldn't be subjected to the flexing the large flat box gets. Large flat boxes have poor survival rates - go look on ebay and you will probably find a lot of vintage trains from the 50s, many of them in solid, intact original boxes. Now try and find a "train set" in one of those big flat display boxes where the box is still in prime condition. And if it was, I wonder if it would still be after shipping? Andy |
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Post by el3637 on May 29, 2012 21:35:03 GMT -8
Here are some pics of the damage: One wheel loose on the obs:  One L-railing wound up out here in the foam, from one of the sleepers:  Pilot and number board knocked loose on the 1407, and the etched pilot steps knocked off:  Damage to side steps on the 1407:  Damage to side steps on the 1406 - also notice the truck spring hanger bent outward... How did that happen??  Damage on the other side of 1406 - notice that one is crunched the opposite direction  Really the only thing *broken* are the side steps, I forget how many but I guess about half of them. The other stuff is just knocked off or dislodged and I can fix it if I haven't already. Did I mention that in spite of the rough ride they had getting here, these guys run *fantastic*? I have no complaints at all, and I'm running 'em with the sound turned off just to hear how smooth they are. IMO they are the equal of the latest Walthers E units with the 14:1 helical gears. Very nice. Andy |
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Post by calzephyr on May 30, 2012 5:48:47 GMT -8
Andy
Thanks for posting the pictures. The FP9 must have moved around in the box way too much.
The Intermountain F units had these as separate items that were tacked onto the body and not molded on like the older KATO built Stewart units. These might a part that can be replaced.
It is good to hear they run well and if the steps are molded on, the body shells will have to be replaced.
From what I can see of the passenger cars, the tinted windows look very good!!!!!!
Remember how the original P2K models were shipped in the box with the shell off of the chassis and supported both inside and out by foam? Those shells probably could take 10G's of shock!!!
Larry
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Post by rapidotrains on May 30, 2012 6:11:21 GMT -8
Hi all,
After several days of consultations with the factory, we've settled on the following packaging improvements for subsequent deliveries of The Canadian. I welcome feedback from you guys about this.
1. The FP9A locomotives will be packaged separately. Each Canadian will in essence be packed in two boxes: the train and the locomotives. Each locomotive will be in a newly revised clamshell package (to better avoid the stirrups), with EVA foam on the ends preventing end-to-end movement. The clamshell will be placed in an EPDM foam cradle and then placed in a 2mm cardboard box. The two boxed locomotives will then be placed in their own shipping carton.
2. We're adding foam to either end of each passenger car to prevent lateral movement when the big shipping box is dropped. We'll also test using thicker plastic sheet to wrap each car to better hold it in place.
We're also making replacement FP9 stirrups for anyone whose stirrups were damaged in shipping. These will be fully painted and will come with a drilling template to drill mounting holes into the bottom of the shell. They will be free for anyone who owns a Canadian.
While we haven't had that many complaints of damage in Canada, we are still aiming for no damage. Considering the rigorous testing that we did to the packaging, I can only imagine how they are being treated by the courier companies. When we get the revised packaging samples, we plan to throw the FP9A off of the second floor mezzanine to see what happens. If it survives that, then we know that any model damaged in shipping was treated WORSE.
Best regards,
Jason
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Post by rapidotrains on May 30, 2012 6:16:59 GMT -8
I just think a more compact "brick" package would have been a better choice, although without the nice "trainset" display aspect. The brick would weigh the same and have the same stuff in it, but wouldn't be subjected to the flexing the large flat box gets. The issue is not the flexing - it's the damage due to transferred shock when the thing is dropped. We've looked into the brick packaging, and we're hesitant to change the packaging so drastically for two reasons: 1. it seems that we're about 90% of the way there with our current packaging. With some tweaks, we think it will do the job. However, if we change to the brick packaging we are essentially starting from scratch and we may end up finding new problems after the next shipment. I don't believe anyone has ever delivered a train of this size or complexity before so we can't go with precedents. If the brick fails, then we've delivered two Canadian shipments that don't survive US shipping instead of just one. 2. the factory looked into the costs of a complete packaging redesign. Including the new blisters and styrofoam moulds, plus the new cardboard packaging, we're looking at $30,000. That's a lot of money to gamble on a new packaging design that may or may not work. So we'll go with revising the current packaging, and we'll also ask our distributors to take greater care with the boxes on their end. Best regards, Jason |
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Post by riogrande on May 30, 2012 6:39:19 GMT -8
When dozens of people handle thousands of packages per day, do you think any of them look for "fragile" labels and be extra careful? They treat every package the same. Heck Fedex shoots them into sorting bins with an air cannon. If the stuff isn't packed to take it, it's going to get damaged. My comment about reverse pyschology was in response to someone who hinted that if you put "handle with care" or "fragile" lables on packages, it is like waving a red flag in front of a bull, inviting handlers to be extra rough. Anyway, if what you believe is true, we shouldn't bother with lablels. |
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Post by el3637 on May 30, 2012 6:45:45 GMT -8
That explains the pilot and number board dislodging, sort of, as well as the bent coupler but I still have trouble picturing how the side steps got crunched in the manner they did. It's almost as if the truck itself snagged them and tore them off, but there would be some corresponding damage to the truck or the truck would have come out of its mount. It also doesn't explain the rearmost side steps being skewed with no other damage on the back end - coupler, yoke, mu hoses etc show no damage. The reason I suggested the "brick" package is because that's what Fox Valley used on their Hiawatha set. Of course it's a smaller set, but the outer box holds 6 passenger cars and the locomotive on top with some soft foam padding to keep the loco box in place. The box innards are clamshell IIRC. Mine had zero damage. Now the couplers were about .050" too low from the factory but that's not a shipping problem, just an inexcusable design error. But anyway, the FVM train overall is much lighter. 6 cars vs. 10 and the cars have no lighting and are *extremely* light. I guess if you could call half the wheelsets out of the trucks "shipping damage" then it had some, but these things fall out when you pick the car up off the track, so again - it's just poor design. The other reason for the brick design is, I'd actually use it to store the models. I can slide that Fox Valley brick box just about anywhere, but the massive Rapido box is going noplace but storage, and I'm only keeping it in the remote possibility I ever want to sell the complete set. And if I did, I'd ship the box separately from the train itself rather than putting the train in it. Of course I already have mine, so this is a moot point for me. But apparently one guy locally has ordered multiple sets of future runs. Will be interesting to hear how that turns out. Shipping damage is strange. Analyzing it is sort of like trying to figure out why the oxygen tank on Apollo 13 blew up. All they had for evidence was one photo, the mission logs, and the meticulous service logs for every piece of equipment. There's no hard forensic evidence whatsoever, but in the end their conclusion was probably correct. The damaged FP9s don't warrant a multi-million dollar investigation, so hopefully the improved packaging will do the trick. Andy |
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Post by calzephyr on May 30, 2012 13:46:33 GMT -8
Hi all, After several days of consultations with the factory, we've settled on the following packaging improvements for subsequent deliveries of The Canadian. I welcome feedback from you guys about this. 1. The FP9A locomotives will be packaged separately. Each Canadian will in essence be packed in two boxes: the train and the locomotives. Each locomotive will be in a newly revised clamshell package (to better avoid the stirrups), with EVA foam on the ends preventing end-to-end movement. The clamshell will be placed in an EPDM foam cradle and then placed in a 2mm cardboard box. The two boxed locomotives will then be placed in their own shipping carton. 2. We're adding foam to either end of each passenger car to prevent lateral movement when the big shipping box is dropped. We'll also test using thicker plastic sheet to wrap each car to better hold it in place. We're also making replacement FP9 stirrups for anyone whose stirrups were damaged in shipping. These will be fully painted and will come with a drilling template to drill mounting holes into the bottom of the shell. They will be free for anyone who owns a Canadian. While we haven't had that many complaints of damage in Canada, we are still aiming for no damage. Considering the rigorous testing that we did to the packaging, I can only imagine how they are being treated by the courier companies. When we get the revised packaging samples, we plan to throw the FP9A off of the second floor mezzanine to see what happens. If it survives that, then we know that any model damaged in shipping was treated WORSE. Best regards, Jason Jason That should be a great test, but please video the tests and post them on Youtube if the unit has no major damage. I for one would like to see the tests and you might just win some new customers in the non train world and if you post them, please include the link here. There may be reasons that you would not want to do this and I understand if that is the case. Thanks for bringing to us some really great looking projects. :Larry |
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