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Post by calzephyr on May 29, 2012 12:54:15 GMT -8
I got the news today that the model I reserved almost two years ago will not be coming at least to me. The road number I reserved was the 4460, which I have been on at the museum in St. Louis. PSC choose not to honor more than one to the dealer I had my two year reservation with and my reservation was not the first in line with his business. It is not his fault and he tried to get PSC to correct the problem, but they said no deal.
I know this is not a big deal for most of you and missing it saved me a lot of money that can be used for other great models. I am a loyal customer of many of the PSC models and will no longer trust them if I need something important to me. It has become a small world of buyers now so to speak that will purchase this type of model and for the management to ignore the reservations and order other road numbers is not acceptable to me.
Larry
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Post by edwardsutorik on May 29, 2012 17:38:32 GMT -8
I disagree. It was his job to get it for you. If he couldn't do it, he should have told you, rather than letting you think all was well. If PSC was at fault, HE should be here telling the tale, not you. HE should be out scouring the landscape for this model to keep his customer happy. It sounds like you were VERY serious about this model. Your dealer should have known this and double and triple checked to make sure everything was going OK. I, too, have certain models that I care deeply about. I let my dealer know about this, and I hold her VERY accountable about delivering the "very special" orders. If the importer "shorts" me, it is HER job to fix this problem, not mine. And she knows this. Ed |
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Post by calzephyr on May 29, 2012 18:01:33 GMT -8
I disagree. It was his job to get it for you. If he couldn't do it, he should have told you, rather than letting you think all was well. If PSC was at fault, HE should be here telling the tale, not you. HE should be out scouring the landscape for this model to keep his customer happy. Ed Ed As you know, these are made in Korea and the importer is the only one talking to the manufacturer. This is the first time something like this has happened with the models at least for me. When I make a reservation, I always take the model unless something is very poor with the product. I really don't blame anyone at this point. Yes, I am disappointed that PSC decided to make all of the numbers but not multiple 4460 numbered locomotives. That was the number my reservation spelled out two years ago. There is no way of looking for one since PSC is the only importer for the GS6 and all of the dealers got one instead of the four or so that the each dealer had on order. Any dealer that got one of that number gave it to the first reservation or to a very good customer. The reality is there were 20 of these made for the USA with that number and probably 50 of us wanted it. Just the way it is with any brass models lately. The models are too expensive any longer for mass amounts to be made. Some of the latest builds have been for 50 to 100 including all of the road numbers. That would allow only 10 models or so for this particular road number. PSC has the ability to order the correct numbered locomotive that is on reservation and the dealer is now stuck with several other numbers than most of us do not want. None of the dealers I talked got the amount they wanted and I work with five dealers. Larry |
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Post by edwardsutorik on May 29, 2012 18:21:15 GMT -8
I find it very hard to believe that if PSC got 10 times (for example) the orders for a specific number than for any other number that they would just go ahead and crank out the "unacceptables". I s'pose it could happen--humans seem able to do some extremely stupid things. But if I got orders for 100 4449's and 10 4448's, I'd SURELY communicate to my guys to stay late and crank out those extra 4449's.
"and the dealer is now stuck with several other numbers than most of us do not want."
Well, then, clearly the answer is to send them back to PSC so that they can send then back to the factory to have the numbers changed to more acceptable ones. This CAN happen. It is not difficult at all--it just takes commitment to the customer. And sucking it up. For the customer. That's "for", not "by".
Ed
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Post by keystonecrossings on May 30, 2012 2:54:55 GMT -8
As a former dealer, it is beyond frustrating when a manufacturer "shorts" the dealer. It makes the dealer look bad when they cut off orders "in good faith" that all reservations would be met. One of my worst offenders was Red Caboose. They are now distributed through InterMountain, but back in the day they shipped direct. After waiting over two years for a rerun of PRR REA X29 box cars, they diverted the entire run to a museum in the southwest... without explanation. On another X29 run they claimed damage during shipment in the container... then it was a part-time employee that was instructed to destroy damaged models but he went on to destroy good models. Really?  |
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Post by el3637 on May 30, 2012 6:50:35 GMT -8
One of my worst offenders was Red Caboose. They are now distributed through InterMountain, but back in the day they shipped direct. RC partnering with Intermountain has been a big improvement. Andy |
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2012 7:18:56 GMT -8
It doesn't surprise me that PSC dropped the ball. They have a track record of putting their dealers in a bind by either lack of communication or making a poor model. PSC is not well regarded by Great Northern brass collectors due flagrant errors on the models. That said.
PSC NEEDED to inform the dealers that they were only to get one of a certain number. In turn the dealer needs to tell number two reservation that they are on stand by.
In brass importing today, the runs are kept at a bare bones minimum. The importers would rather have 60 reservations for 20 models than risk importing even 30 models. In brass the term "stand by" is used a lot. This way if buyer A can not complete the deal, it goes to the second person on the list. At $1100 for a brass diesel and $2500 for brass steam, neither the dealer or the importer can risk having someone flake out on the deal and be stuck with even one model.
As far as getting the "unwanted" models renumbered....ain't going to happen no way no how. Those model are bought and paid for by the importer, plus with the paints used in Korea aren't designed to come off easily. They would also have to re-box, since the end tag is incorrect and pasting another over will ruin the value of the piece to the collector. In the end the cost to the importer could easily change the $2500 model into a $2750 model or more.
Modern brass today is aimed at one person the collector and for the collector everything must be perfect. Stripping and repainting a model would surely do some damage and that is unacceptable to not only the collector but the general buyer.
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Post by edwardsutorik on May 30, 2012 8:15:00 GMT -8
As far as getting the "unwanted" models renumbered....ain't going to happen no way no how. Those model are bought and paid for by the importer, plus with the paints used in Korea aren't designed to come off easily. They would also have to re-box, since the end tag is incorrect and pasting another over will ruin the value of the piece to the collector. In the end the cost to the importer could easily change the $2500 model into a $2750 model or more. Oh, but it HAS happened. When Division Point screwed up the SP&S Z-8's, some were sent back to be re-lettered. They redid the incorrect herald and lettering in the correct color. The herald was still incorrect. As were some other things. BUT, the lettering WAS redone. At no extra cost to the customer. As far as all the other extra work, perhaps someone should suck it up and keep the customers happy. Ed |
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Post by calzephyr on May 30, 2012 8:42:16 GMT -8
As far as getting the "unwanted" models renumbered....ain't going to happen no way no how. Those model are bought and paid for by the importer, plus with the paints used in Korea aren't designed to come off easily. They would also have to re-box, since the end tag is incorrect and pasting another over will ruin the value of the piece to the collector. In the end the cost to the importer could easily change the $2500 model into a $2750 model or more. Oh, but it HAS happened. When Division Point screwed up the SP&S Z-8's, some were sent back to be re-lettered. They redid the incorrect herald and lettering in the correct color. The herald was still incorrect. As were some other things. BUT, the lettering WAS redone. At no extra cost to the customer. As far as all the other extra work, perhaps someone should suck it up and keep the customers happy. Ed Ed You have a valid point as one of SP&S tenders was sent back to Korea for the fix and it did not cost any money to me. The SP&S Z8 loco also required rework since the SP&S version of the Z8 did not have the blowdown located in the same location as the NP Z8. The loco was sent back to Korea and reworked also. This was a mistake I noticed from pictures of the SP&S Z8 compared to the NP Z8 even before they were shipped to the dealers. A quick call to DVP confirmed the mistake and the problem was taken care of completely as it should be. I had to think twice about getting the model after that type of rework was done, but as assured it would be perfect and it was. I was disappointed with PSC for not working with us on this situation, but they would not have any of the models reworked. \ Larry |
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Post by edwardsutorik on May 30, 2012 9:53:57 GMT -8
I'm glad that Division Point fixed the blowdowns on the SP&S locos. I rejected mine because of that and the incorrect lettering. When it was returned from DP, the lettering was STILL wrong and the blowdowns were STILL wrong. I just gave up on the company after that.
What is additionally grating is that I had contacted DP when the model was first announced and discussed the differences between the early and late SP&S lettering styles. They "knew" how to do it long before production even started, and they still got it wrong. Twice.
Ed
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Post by calzephyr on May 30, 2012 10:23:47 GMT -8
I'm glad that Division Point fixed the blowdowns on the SP&S locos. I rejected mine because of that and the incorrect lettering. When it was returned from DP, the lettering was STILL wrong and the blowdowns were STILL wrong. I just gave up on the company after that. What is additionally grating is that I had contacted DP when the model was first announced and discussed the differences between the early and late SP&S lettering styles. They "knew" how to do it long before production even started, and they still got it wrong. Twice. Ed Ed There is no doubt any model made today can and probably will have some errors. This is especially true with models made of examples of prototype locomotives that were not preserved and cannot be checked against for accuracy. Even models of the locomotives that are in parks or museums are not correct since many importers work with the drawings that the locomotive was made to originally, and steam was normally modified to some degree by the back shop. You almost have to work to detail of a certain number locomotive is you want it to be accurate. Using the Big Boy as an example, many models have been made of that locomotive by many importers over the years and only a few come really close to the real ones since they received several modifications in their service life. It would seem today the imported models that are the best of the best so to speak are nice, but not totally accurate in many ways. BooRim is making many of these models now and you can count on them running very well and looking nice, but don't compare every detail or you will probably be disappointed. As for the price, they are all way too high. I have noticed that some of the DVP brass is back on the market used for a lot less money than the original asking price from DVP. There are a few exceptions, but I expect to pick up one of the GS6 models for a bargain in a year or two. Larry |
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2012 12:09:57 GMT -8
I'm glad that Division Point fixed the blowdowns on the SP&S locos. I rejected mine because of that and the incorrect lettering. When it was returned from DP, the lettering was STILL wrong and the blowdowns were STILL wrong. I just gave up on the company after that. What is additionally grating is that I had contacted DP when the model was first announced and discussed the differences between the early and late SP&S lettering styles. They "knew" how to do it long before production even started, and they still got it wrong. Twice. Ed I forget the exact year, but in 2000'-ish......, Division Point announced Baldwin Center Cabs. My friend who had a store and was a DP dealer was asked by DP to go up to the Illinois Railway Museum to photograph and measure Minneapolis, Northfield & Southern #21, ASAP!!!!!! After making contact with the GM of IRM about having the MN&S spotted where we could take photos and measure, we ventured to the Museum. We spent an ENTIRE DAY taking measurements, detail photos, the works. My buddy then quickly assembled and expressed ALL the information back to DP, since he was getting peppered by DP about needing the information. My friend called up DP to make sure they got the packet and asked if they need ANY OTHER information, since DP was in such a rush. DP had gotten the packet, "but hadn't gotten around to opening it up".......at that point, I think my friend's head was going to burst....RUSH RUSH RUSH....we need the information NOW says DP......then they get the information after expense to those of us doing the work......and then they don't even bother to open the package for days after receiving it?  ? When the pilot model arrived, again DP had the fire lit under my friend to check the model out and get it back to DP ASAP with all corrections noted. He did and sent it back to DP, who acknowledged that corrections did need to be made........When the production models arrived a short time later.....no corrections had been made..... |
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Post by calzephyr on May 30, 2012 12:31:44 GMT -8
I'm glad that Division Point fixed the blowdowns on the SP&S locos. I rejected mine because of that and the incorrect lettering. When it was returned from DP, the lettering was STILL wrong and the blowdowns were STILL wrong. I just gave up on the company after that. What is additionally grating is that I had contacted DP when the model was first announced and discussed the differences between the early and late SP&S lettering styles. They "knew" how to do it long before production even started, and they still got it wrong. Twice. Ed I forget the exact year, but in 2000'-ish......, Division Point announced Baldwin Center Cabs. My friend who had a store and was a DP dealer was asked by DP to go up to the Illinois Railway Museum to photograph and measure Minneapolis, Northfield & Southern #21, ASAP!!!!!! After making contact with the GM of IRM about having the MN&S spotted where we could take photos and measure, we ventured to the Museum. We spent an ENTIRE DAY taking measurements, detail photos, the works. My buddy then quickly assembled and expressed ALL the information back to DP, since he was getting peppered by DP about needing the information. My friend called up DP to make sure they got the packet and asked if they need ANY OTHER information, since DP was in such a rush. DP had gotten the packet, "but hadn't gotten around to opening it up".......at that point, I think my friend's head was going to burst....RUSH RUSH RUSH....we need the information NOW says DP......then they get the information after expense to those of us doing the work......and then they don't even bother to open the package for days after receiving it? ? When the pilot model arrived, again DP had the fire lit under my friend to check the model out and get it back to DP ASAP with all corrections noted. He did and sent it back to DP, who acknowledged that corrections did need to be made........When the production models arrived a short time later.....no corrections had been made..... All of that work for nothing seems to be the story. You have to wonder what is going on when they ask for corrections and then ignore the data. I probably would not respond any longer to this type of task if they had a track record of ignoring the information. I one did a review for a well known Japan Brass maker product that was made in the early 1990 era and none of those got into the product. I know how he feels about the review. |
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