Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2014 17:11:28 GMT -8
Ok so I am having an issue making my LED's work properly. The issue is they will not cycle on and off, nor will they be directional. If I cycle them on and off they will get brighter or dim but not shut off.
I followed the directions contained in this pdf: link
I am using Miniatronics tower LED's wired in series to create a very bright head light. I have used this set up before with non sound decoders without problems. What gives?
Any help is appreciated.
Thanks
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Post by lee1234 on Jan 15, 2014 19:31:37 GMT -8
I looked at your photos and I can't figure out how you have it wired. I am assuming you know that this board is made for Athearn light bulbs to be attached directly to the end terminals. To use LEDs with this board reference the diagram for LEDs from your link. At 2:00 there is a small pad that is marked 14 Volts this is the blue wire connection for LEDs. Using the correct dropping resistor connect the other end of the LED to the switching end pad. I forget if that was the square or oval pad. That is not the same as the diagram.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2014 20:36:35 GMT -8
Yes I am fully aware of what the decoder is for. And it works just fine for those flaky Athearn junk light bulbs. I have tested it with 1.5 volt bulbs to make sure it was functioning properly. I have tied into the 14 volt common + with the blue wires in the photo. The other leg is is off of the switched - lead. There is no reason this shouldn't work. But I don't understand how both light can be on at the same time and neither turn off or on. Depending on the direction that is chosen all the function button does is to dim or brighten the appropriate set of LEDs.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2014 20:38:02 GMT -8
Also I am using the correct dropping resistor or else they would pop.
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Post by lee1234 on Jan 16, 2014 4:24:19 GMT -8
My first thought is that you are running between 14 volts and the voltage source for light bulbs. Try the other end pad. Other than the 14 volt source each end LED is wired separate. I did an LED install of this board myself and I decided that the diagram you found had an error in it. It was some time ago so the memory of what I did is a little fuzzy.
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Post by iccn1000 on Jan 16, 2014 5:54:52 GMT -8
The pad on the board that supports 14 volts works, but is not directional. It sucks when you want to replace LEDs in a sound equipped Genesis unit. You would need a AT1000 (leds), not a GN1000 (bulbs) Thanks Rob Gruber www.dcctrain.com |
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Post by tdspeedracer on Jan 16, 2014 7:36:46 GMT -8
The pad on the board that supports 14 volts works, but is not directional. It sucks when you want to replace LEDs in a sound equipped Genesis unit. You would need a AT1000 (leds), not a GN1000 (bulbs) Thanks Rob Gruber www.dcctrain.comSo what your saying is the only way to turn the headlights on and off when using the 14v pad is remap them to seperate functions and do it manually? That doesn't make any sense, but wouldn't be the first thing I didn't like about Tsunami's. Trevor |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2014 8:09:31 GMT -8
Well I guess I will pull the decoder and sell it. I hate 1.5 volt bulbs. I will go back to no sound.
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bigzmn
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Post by bigzmn on Jan 16, 2014 8:20:30 GMT -8
The pad on the board that supports 14 volts works, but is not directional. It sucks when you want to replace LEDs in a sound equipped Genesis unit. You would need a AT1000 (leds), not a GN1000 (bulbs) Thanks Rob Gruber www.dcctrain.comSo what your saying is the only way to turn the headlights on and off when using the 14v pad is remap them to seperate functions and do it manually? That doesn't make any sense, but wouldn't be the first thing I didn't like about Tsunami's. Trevor I put one in an Athearn CF7 and I also put in LED's. Everything worked just fine and lights were directional. Since directional headlights is NOT prototypical, I remapped mine so I could control them individually. Direction headlights on the decoder are not controlled by the + lead, they are controlled by the conditions in the lighting effects. Either you have something not hooked up correctly, or you just need to do a couple of resets on the decoder. Chris Z. |
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Post by lee1234 on Jan 16, 2014 8:41:02 GMT -8
Mine works directional with LEDs also. I opened it up, connected on the square end pads and 14 volts.
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Post by iccn1000 on Jan 16, 2014 11:20:28 GMT -8
The pad on the board that supports 14 volts works, but is not directional. It sucks when you want to replace LEDs in a sound equipped Genesis unit. You would need a AT1000 (leds), not a GN1000 (bulbs) Thanks Rob Gruber www.dcctrain.comSo what your saying is the only way to turn the headlights on and off when using the 14v pad is remap them to seperate functions and do it manually? That doesn't make any sense, but wouldn't be the first thing I didn't like about Tsunami's. Trevor Actually, we tried using it with on the functions as well and *I Believe* they didnt turn off. Pretty much the GN1000 series is useless with LEDs unless you want it constant. Rob Gruber www.dcctrain.com |
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Post by iccn1000 on Jan 16, 2014 11:22:06 GMT -8
Mine works directional with LEDs also. I opened it up, connected on the square end pads and 14 volts. The question is are you using a AT1000 board or a GN1000 board? We tried the common on the 14 volt and the leg of the headlight with LEDs and vice versa. They would turn on, but were not directional. Be on the lookout for a youtube video coming soon from us with Chessie GP-15Ts where we had to replace the Genesis factory boards with AT-1000 boards to add LEDs to the units. We explain it in there. Thanks Rob Gruber www.dcctrain.com |
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Post by lee1234 on Jan 16, 2014 12:33:58 GMT -8
Mine works directional with LEDs also. I opened it up, connected on the square end pads and 14 volts. The question is are you using a AT1000 board or a GN1000 board? We tried the common on the 14 volt and the leg of the headlight with LEDs and vice versa. They would turn on, but were not directional. Be on the lookout for a youtube video coming soon from us with Chessie GP-15Ts where we had to replace the Genesis factory boards with AT-1000 boards to add LEDs to the units. We explain it in there. Thanks Rob Gruber www.dcctrain.comI have the GN1000 board. I know others had posted before I installed mine that they were also able to use LEDs. Mine is not new so I'm thinking something is different in the boards themselves. I can't read back my CVs so I can't verify what I have. |
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Post by mlehman on Jan 16, 2014 12:53:49 GMT -8
...I have the GN1000 board. I know others had posted before I installed mine that they were also able to use LEDs. Mine is not new so I'm thinking something is different in the boards themselves. I can't read back my CVs so I can't verify what I have. If you can't verify CV status and things seems confused at this point, I'd try a factory reset. I've never heard of a Tsunami board that doesn't support LEDs. I suppose one specifically for Athearn might have this "feature" in a factory install, but doubt Soundtraxx would impose such nonsense directly on the consumer. I've not done any diesel installs yet, but the steam boards all default to directional headlights when just outta the box. There's also a call to Soundtraxx as an option. They're pretty helpful when I've needed them. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2014 14:02:19 GMT -8
Yes I am finding everything mr gruber says to be exactly what I am experiencing. I have tried it on both function pads for the front and rear lighting. To no effect. Both lights are on at the same time and will not turn off.
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Post by iccn1000 on Jan 16, 2014 14:09:24 GMT -8
I've never heard of a Tsunami board that doesn't support LEDs. I suppose one specifically for Athearn might have this "feature" in a factory install, but doubt Soundtraxx would impose such nonsense directly on the consumer. I've not done any diesel installs yet, but the steam boards all default to directional headlights when just outta the box. There's also a call to Soundtraxx as an option. They're pretty helpful when I've needed them. The GN1000 boards were to support bulbs with a 1.5v output. The AT-1000s are for 14 volts. They did design two different boards with this in mind of Athearn Locos = GN = Genesis If you have a GN1000, the F0 outputs are are 1.5 volt which can't run a LED. We did this a while ago, but im pretty sure functions 5/6 are also 1.5 volt. But dont take my word on that. Test it. George and I @ Soundtraxx have talked about this numerous times thru email. Thanks Rob Gruber www.dcctrain.com |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2014 15:24:47 GMT -8
Yeah I am gonna pull the decoder. I don't have sound and I guess I still won't.
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Post by mlehman on Jan 16, 2014 15:53:58 GMT -8
The GN1000 boards were to support bulbs with a 1.5v output. The AT-1000s are for 14 volts. They did design two different boards with this in mind of Athearn Locos = GN = Genesis If you have a GN1000, the F0 outputs are are 1.5 volt which can't run a LED. We did this a while ago, but im pretty sure functions 5/6 are also 1.5 volt. But dont take my word on that. Test it. George and I @ Soundtraxx have talked about this numerous times thru email. Thanks Rob Gruber www.dcctrain.comRob, Well, that's what I learned today.  Thanks and I'll put that bit of info in my data bank. I'll sure want to know that if I ever do start converting mt Genesis F unit fleet to sound. Most of the bulbs have already been replaced by LEDs due to the ridiculous failure rate of Athearn bulbs even with my DCC turned down to 12.5 volts. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2014 20:49:54 GMT -8
Well I will try that before I pull it but I doubt it will do any good.
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Post by iccn1000 on Jan 17, 2014 5:49:06 GMT -8
The GN1000 decoder supports LEDs just fine using the +14 volt pad as common with the proper resistor. Tsunami decoders decoders also have an LED compensation mode - not sure if that would help your situation or not. CV49 is for the front and CV50 is for the rear. Add 128 to the value currently in each to activate LED mode. Not saying that IS your trouble, but it's worth a shot .... Mark. Mark, Good call. I was under the assumption that LED compensation mode was to decrease the intensity of an LED light. (ex. Dimming a strobe so the LED doesn't light up your basement.) If this adds 14 volts to the F0 +/- output, it might do the trick. But the question is still will it be directional...? Tsunami Diesel Sound User’s Guide LED Compensation Mode - Tsunami’s lighting effects can be used with either incandescent bulbs or LEDs. However, because of their differences in brightness characteristics, some lighting effects will appear less life-like when initially set up with an LED. To correct this, Tsunami’s LED compensation mode should be enabled which will improve the contrast of the lighting effect by automatically adjusting the function output level to correct for the different brightness characteristics of an LED. Thanks Rob Gruber www.dcctrain.com |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2014 7:40:53 GMT -8
So I worked on this project a little more this morning. I set the LED compensation mode in CV49 & CV50 while it had some effect on the LEDs it certainly wasn't the cure. I did also preform a factory reset
and try it again just to make sure something wasn't tweaked wrong. So I have pulled it from the loco. It seems really stupid that it can't be done with this decoder even though they give you a 14 volt output to attach to. For those of you that said you have done it I would like to see a picture of the install. You know the old pics or it didn't happen routine. But at this point I have given up. And thanks to Mr. Gruber for his assistance on this. His findings were the same as mine.
The only thing I can think of is that the circuit that they designed with the bridge rectifier for 1.5v bulbs just won't allow it to work properly.
Thanks for looking
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Post by Mark R. on Jan 18, 2014 11:10:56 GMT -8
As a final test as to whether it's an issue with the LEDs or the function outputs themselves .... did it work as expected with 1.5 volt bulbs attached to it ?
Mark.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2014 11:45:08 GMT -8
Yes it worked just as you would expect with 1.5v bulbs. No issues at all that way.
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Post by Mark R. on Jan 18, 2014 21:18:35 GMT -8
Now that I've had some time to mull this over - it runs in my mind instead of using the 14 volt pad as common, I ran the common from one of the track lead inputs. This essentially gives you half wave power as the base. TCS actually used to list that option for lighting in their manuals, but I see they don't any more. Regardless, it DOES work !
As a precautionary measure, I installed a diode in the lead from the track to ensure the LED was only seeing the positive half of the wave.
Mark.
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Post by mlehman on Jan 18, 2014 22:13:41 GMT -8
Mark,
Interesting workaround/
Do all of the light effects work with half-wave power?
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Post by Mark R. on Jan 19, 2014 10:17:50 GMT -8
Mark, Interesting workaround/ Do all of the light effects work with half-wave power? I had headlights, tail lights and ditch lights that all worked just fine. Halfwave power is just exploiting the positive side of the AC-like sine wave off the rails. As such, the base voltage is about half that on the rails. If you have 14 volts on the track, your positive bias will be about 7 volts .... but the negative bias is still 12 volts. I don't recall the math for it, but you end up with a voltage arounf 8-9 volts for the LEDs, so I did find I had to use a slightly lower resistor value. I believe I used a 680 ohm resistor as opposed to the usual 1000 ohm. The negative supply side from the function output still performs all features (dimming, flashing, etc.) as expected. Mark. |
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Post by mlehman on Jan 19, 2014 11:16:01 GMT -8
Mark,
That's good news and in my mind a viable workaround for the board being set up to use 1.5v bulbs. I've used half-wave power myself in a couple of cases to save a wire between tender and loco and also for constant on lighting without a decoder, like in my snowplow, which sees track time only rarely. When you first mentioned it I wondered if you were talking just for on-off, but the fact that it preserves the various lighting effects really opens up the possibilities in making this decoder more flexible, rather than less, than a regular Tsunami.
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