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Post by SantaFeJim on Jun 6, 2012 7:31:31 GMT -8
Last week in the "Toasted Baggage Dorm" thread, I stated that I had sent an email to Walthers expressing my concern about the problem with their plated El Capitan cars. My email also included a link to the topic so that they could see the pictures that el3637 posted and read all of our comments.
Here is Walthers response to my email:
Hello Jim:
I understand your concern regarding this customer's issue with our El
Capitan Baggage-Dormitory Transition Car. Walthers has been producing
quality products for 80 years, and when issues such as this arise, it's no
trivial matter.
These cars are designed so that the electrical pickup does not make contact
with the plating. Apparently though, the fail-safes in this one car did
fail. Although, the metal got warm enough to soften the plastic, there is no
chance of a fire. Eventually the amp draw would trip the breaker on the
power system.
This does seem to be an isolated incident – so far this is the only report
of this we have seen — I highly doubt that entire line is affected. Rest
assured that Walthers is reviewing the issue and will take appropriate
action. If by some chance, you encounter any issue with our products, please
do not hesitate to contact us. We proudly stand behind our products.
Sincerely,
Daniel Larkee
Customer Service
Wm. K. Walthers, Inc.
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Post by upwpfan on Jun 6, 2012 7:57:05 GMT -8
Last week in the "Toasted Baggage Dorm" thread, I stated that I had sent an email to Walthers expressing my concern about the problem with their plated El Capitan cars. My email also included a link to the topic so that they could see the pictures that el3637 posted and read all of our comments. Here is Walthers response to my email: Hello Jim:
I understand your concern regarding this customer's issue with our El
Capitan Baggage-Dormitory Transition Car. Walthers has been producing
quality products for 80 years, and when issues such as this arise, it's no
trivial matter.
These cars are designed so that the electrical pickup does not make contact
with the plating. Apparently though, the fail-safes in this one car did
fail. Although, the metal got warm enough to soften the plastic, there is no
chance of a fire. Eventually the amp draw would trip the breaker on the
power system.
This does seem to be an isolated incident – so far this is the only report
of this we have seen — I highly doubt that entire line is affected. Rest
assured that Walthers is reviewing the issue and will take appropriate
action. If by some chance, you encounter any issue with our products, please
do not hesitate to contact us. We proudly stand behind our products.
Sincerely,
Daniel Larkee
Customer Service
Wm. K. Walthers, Inc.
Folks; Fairly standard reply...however, I do not see an offer to replace the defective product. What's up with that? It was clear from the post and the photos that the car was defective. I would have expected a better reply.  Jere Ingram |
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Post by northern on Jun 6, 2012 10:58:10 GMT -8
I am also very surprised that with an incident as serious as this that no replacement was offered.
Not very good PR at all.
I wonder just how isolated this incident is?
Time will of course tell us in due course.
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Post by el3637 on Jun 6, 2012 11:16:47 GMT -8
Fairly standard reply...however, I do not see an offer to replace the defective product. What's up with that? It was clear from the post and the photos that the car was defective. I would have expected a better reply. I guess if I want a replacement I will have to contact them myself. Like I say, I don't know anyone at Walthers anymore... if they want me to send back the defective car first, I won't bother. I've already installed lighting in it which I could take out I suppose, also cut off the retainers for the diaphagm so I could attempt to strip the plating. And also mounted a Kadee box on the front end. It would be nice to have a replacement car end without the wrinkle anyway. As to it being an isolated incident... well, my car obviously had one side taped which is their standard practice, but obviously it failed anyway. Since my car doesn't appear to have any mistakes in assembly, it was probably a material failure (i.e. the tape) and it's likely to happen again. I suspect the majority of owners of these plated cars have not operated them at all. The El Capitan cars first began showing up, what, 6 months ago? I didn't try to run any of them until Memorial Day weekend, after I had all of the cars in hand. Like I said, bears checking on any of the plated cars that have end feeder tabs, which is all of the low-level cars - including the baggage and RPO. I realize most people won't light their baggage cars, but the feeds are there. Andy |
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Post by el3637 on Jun 6, 2012 11:26:42 GMT -8
I just sent a note to Walthers customer service with links to the pics, although I know they've already seen them. I'm not asking for a replacement car - just a replacement for the damaged car end. I know I'm probably entitled to a replacement car but I just don't feel like sending the whole thing back especially after I've modified it. Hopefully they have at least SOME parts on hand - I guess I'll find out.
Andy
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Post by SantaFeJim on Jun 6, 2012 12:52:00 GMT -8
Hopefully they have at least SOME parts on hand - I guess I'll find out. Andy Andy - You should have no problems getting whatever replacement part(s) you need. When my El Cap Diner arrived one of the trucks was damaged. I contacted the customer service department and got the new truck, complete with 3 wheel sets, within a week. They did not require me to send back the damage one. |
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Jun 6, 2012 13:41:44 GMT -8
I have a flock of the El CAP cars but none have been on the track yet. I did put more tape on mine. I hope they don't burn down when I do.
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Post by mlehman on Jun 6, 2012 16:06:37 GMT -8
Last week in the "Toasted Baggage Dorm" thread, I stated that I had sent an email to Walthers expressing my concern about the problem with their plated El Capitan cars. My email also included a link to the topic so that they could see the pictures that el3637 posted and read all of our comments. Here is Walthers response to my email: SNIP These cars are designed so that the electrical pickup does not make contact with the plating. Apparently though, the fail-safes in this one car did fail. Although, the metal got warm enough to soften the plastic, there is no chance of a fire. Eventually the amp draw would trip the breaker on the power system. SNIP As the clown who first brought up "Fire!", it was totally in jest. I'm certain Walthers is right that's not a concern given the design. Just didn't want what I intended as sarcasm to be taken too seriously. |
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Post by el3637 on Jun 6, 2012 18:13:25 GMT -8
As the clown who first brought up "Fire!", it was totally in jest. I'm certain Walthers is right that's not a concern given the design. Just didn't want what I intended as sarcasm to be taken too seriously. While the voltages are low, IMO anything hot enough to melt plastic could get hot enough to catch on fire. Depends on what the limits are of the breaker, the current level in the track type of power supply, etc. I've burned up a decoder in a P2K loco that burned my fingers when I picked the loco up - through the plastic shell. My DCC system is an NCE Pro with a Loy's 5 amp power supply. I run it on the "HO" setting which puts around 14v into the track. The shorted baggage dorm did NOT trip the breaker on the power supply! Would it have eventually? Don't know. But I'm glad I caught it before more damage was done. Andy |
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Post by calzephyr on Jun 7, 2012 14:29:04 GMT -8
As the clown who first brought up "Fire!", it was totally in jest. I'm certain Walthers is right that's not a concern given the design. Just didn't want what I intended as sarcasm to be taken too seriously. While the voltages are low, IMO anything hot enough to melt plastic could get hot enough to catch on fire. Depends on what the limits are of the breaker, the current level in the track type of power supply, etc. I've burned up a decoder in a P2K loco that burned my fingers when I picked the loco up - through the plastic shell. My DCC system is an NCE Pro with a Loy's 5 amp power supply. I run it on the "HO" setting which puts around 14v into the track. The shorted baggage dorm did NOT trip the breaker on the power supply! Would it have eventually? Don't know. But I'm glad I caught it before more damage was done. Andy Andy I received an email back from Walthers also but none of my cars are damaged at this time. I hope you ask for a replacement car since yours was damaged and it should be replaced if you want a complete car. I removed the voltage vertical leads from my low level cars as I do not trust that cheap tape, which is not electrical tape and only has insulating values as a plastic. That tape is very thin and could break down or deteriorate over time. Larry |
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Post by mlehman on Jun 7, 2012 21:22:15 GMT -8
Andy SNIP I removed the voltage vertical leads from my low level cars as I do not trust that cheap tape, which is not electrical tape and only has insulating values as a plastic. That tape is very thin and could break down or deteriorate over time. Larry I wonder if it was supposed to be a Kapton-type tape and someone used some cheap office tape? That could account for the issues. |
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Post by drolsen on Jun 7, 2012 23:05:45 GMT -8
Andy - I'd encourage you to ask for a replacement car too, just on principle to ensure that they're making good on issues like this. I've worked with Walthers customer service (not knowing anyone there personally) over the years on several issues with broken or missing parts, as well as the "Undecorated Superliners with Glued-In Windows" saga, and they never asked me to send back any of the damaged items. I would expect them to send you a replacement car just based on the damage shown in your photos.
Dave
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Post by SantaFeJim on Jun 8, 2012 5:24:27 GMT -8
Andy - I'd encourage you to ask for a replacement car too, just on principle to ensure that they're making good on issues like this. I would expect them to send you a replacement car just based on the damage shown in your photos. Dave  |
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Post by painkiller on Jun 8, 2012 5:26:45 GMT -8
That is lame not to offer a replacement of a product which is not OK. Hope that more people respond on the subject here so Santafejim gets a new car.
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Post by SantaFeJim on Jun 8, 2012 5:33:40 GMT -8
Thanks painkiller, but SantaFeJim has not run his El Capitan cars yet. It is Andy, aka el3637, that suffered the damage and should IMHO get a FREE replacement from Walthers. All I did was bring it to Walthers attention by sending them a link to the "Toasted" topic.  |
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Post by calzephyr on Jun 8, 2012 5:57:42 GMT -8
Andy SNIP I removed the voltage vertical leads from my low level cars as I do not trust that cheap tape, which is not electrical tape and only has insulating values as a plastic. That tape is very thin and could break down or deteriorate over time. Larry I wonder if it was supposed to be a Kapton-type tape and someone used some cheap office tape? That could account for the issues. If they used the Kapton-type tape, it should have insulated the voltage but it might have been the way it was applied to the failed car. It looks to be a thin strip of tape in width and since it is clear, it is hard to tell if the tape covers the metal completely. If it was Kapton-type tape, the failure might be in the application and the fact both side are not covered. It is not wise to apply insulation to one side of a voltage depending on that to be fail safe. It does same money and time to apply the tape to one side. From past experiences with computers and electronics in general, I would have to believe there will be more failures in the future. It always seems whatever can go wrong will happen soon if a sufficient amount of numbers are applied! Larry |
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Post by el3637 on Jun 8, 2012 7:42:03 GMT -8
Andy - I'd encourage you to ask for a replacement car too, just on principle to ensure that they're making good on issues like this. I've worked with Walthers customer service (not knowing anyone there personally) over the years on several issues with broken or missing parts, as well as the "Undecorated Superliners with Glued-In Windows" saga, and they never asked me to send back any of the damaged items. I would expect them to send you a replacement car just based on the damage shown in your photos. Dave I sent my email along with links to the pictures two days ago. Haven't heard a word. Andy |
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Post by riogrande on Jun 8, 2012 8:22:24 GMT -8
It sure seems with the power of the internet, any company would want to pro-actively nip a problem like this in the bud and not brush off customers. Word spreads fast these days and companies should keep this in mind.
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Post by Valencia Jim on Jun 8, 2012 9:04:48 GMT -8
My set has not had much running time, but trust me I will be watching the train closely while it runs.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2012 9:39:22 GMT -8
Andy - I'd encourage you to ask for a replacement car too, just on principle to ensure that they're making good on issues like this. I've worked with Walthers customer service (not knowing anyone there personally) over the years on several issues with broken or missing parts, as well as the "Undecorated Superliners with Glued-In Windows" saga, and they never asked me to send back any of the damaged items. I would expect them to send you a replacement car just based on the damage shown in your photos. Dave I sent my email along with links to the pictures two days ago. Haven't heard a word. Andy I had a problem with one of the Proto E8's for the Broadway Limited. A part was missing due to poor workmanship. I contacted Walthers and heard nothing, my dealer from whom I purchased the model, contacted Walthers and was blown off. After nearly six weeks and one two page scathing letter from me to Walthers "Customer Service"....what a JOKE!!!  I FINALLY got the missing part as did my dealer! It was a nightmare for me AND the STORE!!!! I came away with the opinion that Walthers doesn't really care what we think or they'd be at least proactive and apologetic. |
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Post by el3637 on Jun 8, 2012 11:24:13 GMT -8
I did receive an email from Dan Larkee at Walthers. He is sending me a replacement car end. So when I receive it I will consider the matter closed however I will continue to inspect and re-insulate all of my existing plated cars and any future ones I purchase.
Andy
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Post by riogrande on Jun 8, 2012 13:42:43 GMT -8
Andy,
Thats good to see Walthers is pro-actively repsonding to resolve the problem with the damaged car.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2012 14:01:32 GMT -8
Should have gotten a complete car for the inner beige framing and floor were damaged or at least those parts on top of the car end.
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Post by calzephyr on Jun 8, 2012 14:17:54 GMT -8
I did receive an email from Dan Larkee at Walthers. He is sending me a replacement car end. So when I receive it I will consider the matter closed however I will continue to inspect and re-insulate all of my existing plated cars and any future ones I purchase. Andy Andy, Smart choice to inspect and insulate or remove those tabs!! Every single level Plated Super Chief car can have the same problem. Larry |
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