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Post by sd80macs on Jun 7, 2012 10:39:41 GMT -8
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Post by Christian on Jun 7, 2012 11:42:50 GMT -8
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Post by onequiknova on Jun 7, 2012 11:57:04 GMT -8
Wishful thinking, but hopeful they chose that specific picture to hint at another future project. Budd bilevels.
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Post by craigz on Jun 7, 2012 14:28:23 GMT -8
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Post by railthunder on Jun 7, 2012 21:39:38 GMT -8
I really hope that we see something high quality to pull these things with. The P30CH, SDP40F, or F40PH would be fabulous. The SDP40F of course did not pull the Amfleet II coaches, but high quality Amtrak power would be grat.
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Jun 8, 2012 6:20:24 GMT -8
If these cars are the quality of a Rapido car, why wouldn't they be $75 ea.? The newest run of Osgood-Bradley Rapido cars is going to be $80, and the NH stainless steel cars from River Point Station will be at least $90.
Personally, I just hope these new cars roll worth a damn. With those inside bearing trucks, no one has ever made an Amtube that rolls well...even in brass. Either they have to come up with a roller bearing wheelset like the InterMountain ones, or they have to keep the car weight to an absolute bare minimum and hope for the best. Considering that up to 8 Amtubes are routinely hauled with a single engine, and that the best F40PH (the Kato) is somewhat a light pulling engine, they really need to make these cars roll real easy.
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DHTR
Junior Member
Posts: 83
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Post by DHTR on Jun 8, 2012 7:06:46 GMT -8
quote: "Considering that up to 8 Amtubes are routinely hauled with a single engine, and that the best F40PH (the Kato) is somewhat a light pulling engine, they really need to make these cars roll real easy."
At $75.00 each I hope you have $600.00 at list to do this and at 20% is $480.00 for one train !!! When will it stop? How many of us out there will do 2-4 trains of this? Be honest.
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Post by el3637 on Jun 8, 2012 7:44:16 GMT -8
I would like to have a small number of these cars in phase I. What was the first year they were in service? If it was after 1975 or 76, I can pass on them.
Andy
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Post by riogrande on Jun 8, 2012 8:20:03 GMT -8
At $75.00 each I hope you have $600.00 at list to do this and at 20% is $480.00 for one train !!! When will it stop? How many of us out there will do 2-4 trains of this? Be honest. If you compare any new high quality passenger car to these, then yes, you will have to have $600/$480 to have a train. Look at what the AT&SF hi-level train is costing, or the BLI CZ cars, or the Rapido cars, the list goes on and on. There is fantasy and then there is reality. The reality is that anything new and high quality is going to be expensive. We all know that and to wish otherwise is ignoring what is going on outside our houses or basements. How many will do a train of 2-4 train? Honestly not me but these cars only rarely crossed the Rockies tacked onto the back of the Superliner CZ, so I don't need them. If I modeled a corridor that frequently saw Amtubes, I'd probably want some, and if I had the denero, I would buy them. I don't deny that the high cost of the hobby is difficult but thats how it is and I don't see it changing. Buy or don't buy, end of story. |
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Post by drolsen on Jun 8, 2012 9:14:39 GMT -8
If these cars are the quality of a Rapido car, why wouldn't they be $75 ea.? The newest run of Osgood-Bradley Rapido cars is going to be $80, and the NH stainless steel cars from River Point Station will be at least $90. Paul - I've been hoping that Rapido would produce Amfleet models for a couple years now, although I figured Walthers would eventually upgrade theirs. Unfortunately, I don't think there's any way that Walthers will produce a "Rapido-quality" Amfleet car. Their announcement states that the models will have highly detailed underbody equipment, but the prototype cars have tons of piping visible underneath that I seriously doubt Walthers will include (but Rapido would based on their models to date). These photos are pretty dark, but they show how the high sides of the Amfleet cars expose all the underbody equipment, HEP cables, and piping: AMTK 82548: drolsen.rrpicturearchives.net/rsPicture.aspx?id=284919That's what I'd expect to see on a "Rapido-quality" model for $75-80, but I don't think we're going to get that from Walthers. I expect these models to have the main equipment components represented in plastic underneath like their streamlined and heavyweight passenger cars, but Rapido would take it further than that to include all the pipes, hoses, and cables as well. I'm glad to see these prototypes redone in as better quality models, and I know they'll be a vast improvement over the originals, but I never expect to get the same value for the price when it comes to Walthers. Their freight cars demonstrate this clearly if you compare one of theirs to a similarly-priced model from Athearn, ExactRail, or Atlas. I just accept that going in if I want the model that Walthers is producing. Dave |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2012 9:43:13 GMT -8
Start saving your money boys, for if these are like all other recent Walthers passenger cars there will ONE run and one run only of the cars. I'd be surprised if Walthers even remotely kept them as a stock item.
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Post by sd80macs on Jun 8, 2012 10:39:30 GMT -8
Lucky for me I need Phase III and IV Amfleet 1 cars so I will wait for the next run and see how the first run comes out. I might get a couple Phase III Amfleet 2's if I can find them at a reasonable price though.
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Post by Donnell Wells on Jun 8, 2012 12:26:47 GMT -8
Well, we asked for it, we got it! I, for one, am humbly excited with this announcement. Some of us speculated that it would come, and were not really suprised. With Walthers having just previously announce the Metroliner cars, an Amfleet annoucement was essentially inevitable.
I will likely get a set (non-deluxe) of Amfleets, enough to build a decent consist for a San Dieagans train. At $75 each, I looking at about $525 for a set of 7. I will likely fille the balance of my Amfleet cars with older upgraded Bachmann cars that I have collected over the years; I think I have about 10 or 12 cars.
The good thing is that I can use the new Walthers car as a standard to build the new cars to. Of course, I know I'm dealing with "ancient" tooling, but with new details, and a new paint job via AntonioFP45's Alclad tips, they should come out rather nicely. Also, I don't plan on intermixing the Walthers and Bachmann equipment except for adding a Bachmann ex-Metroliner cab control car to the Wlather consist.
This annoucement has also reignited the urge to finish detailing my Walthers F40 fleet as to have decent looking power to pull the new, and rebuilt cars. My long-range goal is to have at least 3 complete Amfleet San Diegans trains, along with a complete 80s/90s Superliner-equipped Southwest Chief. I'd also like to do a Desert Wind, and between Walthers (and Kato's) Supliner, Hi-level, and now Amfleet cars, I can model this train during any period btween its innauguration 1979 to it cancellation in 1997.
All I can say is that it is getting pretty good for us Amtrak modelers!
Donnell
PS - Speaking of Amfleets, I noticed this Ebay sale for a 5-car set of brass Amfleet IIs has been ongoing for quite some time:
www.ebay.com/itm/Set-of-5-HO-Samhongsa-AMTRAK-Phase-III-AmFleet-Coach-Lounge-Cars-Plated-Brass-/270981800863?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3f17c6239f
No, I'm not selling the cars, nor am I affiliated with the seller. I just thought is was a nice looking set, and affordably priced especially considering what Walthers is asking for their *deluxe* set...
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Post by riogrande on Jun 8, 2012 13:18:49 GMT -8
I've always had some interest in Amtrak since I have ridden it:
1976 - Sacramento CA to Denver CO (San Francisco Zephyr) SDP40F w/heritage EQ
1977 - Osceola IA to Sacramento CA (San Francisco Zephyr) SDP40F w/heritage EQ
1990 - Chicago to Sacramento, Sacramento to Chicago (Amtrak California Zephyr) F40PH w/Phase III Superliner I cars
1995 - Syracuse to Chicago, Chicago to Syracuse (Lake Shore Ltd) F40PH w/Amtubes and heritage cars
2000 - Syracuse to NYC, NYC to Washington Union Station - Lake Shore Ltd
I think that about covers it. But for modeling purposes the Amtrak CZ of the 1980's is what I'm mostly interested in, which also covers the train I rode in 1990. To that end I've got 3 KATO F40PH's and 3 Walthers F40PH's, some Concor and Walthers MCH cars (phase I & II) some baggage cars, a step up coach (TSP) and 9 Walthers Superliner I cars.
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Post by antoniofp45 on Jun 14, 2012 8:41:42 GMT -8
Regarding: Lighting kit.Something that I hope Walthers considers if it has not been thought of yet. Walthers should use COOL WHITE LEDs for the lighting kits, not WARM WHITE. All Amfleet cars (and most Heritage Budd coaches/diners/sleepers/lounges produced after WWII) use florescent lighting as the primary interior lighting source. Incandescent lights are used as secondary lights ( reading lights over seating, floor and walkways, lavatory, etc.). I don't claim to be an expert, but from my observations and other passenger car modelers I've spoken with, the lighting color emitted by Cool White LEDs comes close to resembling that of florescents for scale modeling. Look at the Amfeet and Viewliners on this clip: I hope that this would be considered as a reasonable request that's worth researching. Just to share:I remember an occasion back in 2003-04, when Walthers had introduced the new lightweight streamlined cars. I was at my LHS about to purchase several Walthers Lighting Kits to install in the cars I had purchased on my previous visit. Then I noticed that the lighting was incandescent. Disappointed, I put the kits back on the shelf, explaining to the owner that the lighting was inaccurate. The store's regulars, who were a good group of guys that I often joked with, gave me a baffled look. One of them even says, "Wow, Walthers makes a lighting kit and you're complaining?!" I was surprised, but later a friend reminded me their primary interest was in freight and so to them my complaint leaned towards the "trivial" side. Additionally, it's likely that some of these guys had not even ridden on a passenger train. In a situation like that, it was almost tempting to say "You're the same guys that complain about the hatches on a center flow hopper being a scale 2" too large!". But I just explained the prototype scenario and moved on to another topic. Since then, I've been glad to see more passenger car modelers providing info on forums and to the manufacturers. In some cases, the manufacturers blew off the info, while in others the information was used and implemented. 
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Post by antoniofp45 on Jun 15, 2012 6:39:22 GMT -8
Just a quick update. At the suggestion of a modeler on the MRR Forum, I sent an email to Walthers with the suggestion regarding the color for their lighting kits and to include the Metroliners as well.
Hopefully they will consider it. If Walthers produces a decent "cool white" light board, I'd probably adapt it for use in my older run Walthers Budd and PS units.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jun 15, 2012 8:31:26 GMT -8
I would like to have a small number of these cars in phase I. What was the first year they were in service? If it was after 1975 or 76, I can pass on them. Andy Good guess (I guess), Andy, The coaches were built starting in 1975, the other versions in 1976. Ed |
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wictl
Junior Member
Posts: 74
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Post by wictl on Jun 15, 2012 11:13:56 GMT -8
If the lighting is like that of the El Capitan cars, the lighting will be of the cool whites as the El Capitan lighting casts a blueish hue.
Wictl
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Post by umtrrauthor on Jun 15, 2012 16:58:18 GMT -8
And here's a fun fact: a well known internet and brick & mortar "heavenly" retailer has just posted the announcement with their expected street price.
It's a whopping 13% off MSRP. Impact of that nifty little short discount program introduced by Walthers, perhaps?!?
Given that, what's the over/under on what small hobby shops will have to charge for these?
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Post by sd80macs on Jun 15, 2012 17:14:26 GMT -8
Guys this is what walthers sent to dealers for discounts.
Order Your Amtrak Amfleet Cars
Now to Maximize Your Discount!
Order the all-new Amfleet models from Walthers at the best possible
prices, and have the cars in stock for sales as soon as they're available!
Place your order for Amfleet units by July 31, 2012 and qualify for:
Discount
Order 1 to 11 Amfleet Cars 30 %
Order 12 to 23 Amfleet Cars 30 & 5 %
Order 24+ Amfleet Cars 30 & 10%
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Post by umtrrauthor on Jun 16, 2012 12:04:04 GMT -8
This is a potential exercise in creative mathematics...
Several large department stores offer "50% off plus another 10% off". That does NOT mean 60% off, but 55% off. First the 50% off is taken, then the "extra 10% off" is taken on the remaining amount.
Example: Starting price $100.
50% off = $50 off, $100-$50=$50
Extra 10% off = 10% of the $50 remaining, or $5, and $50 - $5 = $45.
So that "30% and 5%" could be 35%, or it could be 33.5%.
And that "30% and 10%" could be 40%, or it could be 37%.
At any rate, it's not a straight 40% from item one, which is, I was told, what the discount used to be.
I guess LHS owners could eat a little less, or maybe lower their thermostat and put on a sweater, or unscrew a few light bulbs.
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