Newbie HO layout question

[riogrande]

Jun 16, 2012 11:35:52 GMT -8 Donnell Wells said:

Well, I'm almost certain that whatever money you save by buying online, you may end up spending on shipping. Three-foot sections of flex track through the mail is very costly.

Then there are those of use who don't have a hobby shop near by, so what other option do we have? I've been around long enough to know how to hunt for deals, and my only options (again) are online vendors, or train shows. BOTH have other associated costs like shipping or gas/admission costs. As for train shows, the way I look at it is I am paying for the experience of getting out and doing something fun with my wife, while I am hunting for deals.... so while there are other costs, its' also entertainment for me and my wife.

If you're going to do it though, larger quatities will be more cost effective, and the plan you've selected has about 35' of track total. So, you'll need at least twelve 3' sections, bringing your cost to roughly $60, IF you can find the track at $5 per section.

Personally, on a small layout like this, I would splurge and go for the Micro Engineering Code 83 track and turnouts. It actually costs less than Atlas' flex track, and is much more detailed, operates nicely when installed properly (as really any track should), and if you can master laying this stuff smoothly, you'll have no problem building any other layout!

Donnell

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Back on topic, as for buying track yes, you do have to buy bundles or bunches if buying online. Actually that is the only way I have ever bought flex in the past so I think it is still a viable way unless you are only getting a couple pieces.

[dutch245]

We went ahead and ordered our track online, at www.modeltrainstuff.com/. I was able to buy exactly what we needed, and compared to my local store the price came out just over $22 cheaper. Here's a picture of what we bought:

imgur.com/5NSyr

If it's appropriate, we're planning on using this thread as a way to document our project as we work through it ;D

[edwardsutorik]

Jun 17, 2012 15:03:00 GMT -8 dutch245 said:

If it's appropriate, we're planning on using this thread as a way to document our project as we work through it ;D

I think it is, and it will be interesting to follow your adventures. And you, ours, for that matter.

Looking forward to more,


Ed

[dutch245]

Sounds good!

Here's a link to an album from when we built the table this afternoon:

imgur.com/a/lcOs4

We think it turned out pretty awesome!

[umtrrauthor]

Jun 17, 2012 18:22:32 GMT -8 dutch245 said:

Sounds good!

Here's a link to an album from when we built the table this afternoon:

imgur.com/a/lcOs4

We think it turned out pretty awesome!

Clicks "like" button

[onequiknova]

Not to rain on your parade, but your going to need to frame you table top to keep it from sagging. It all ready has a bit of a sag to it and its only going to get worse. For a 4x8, I'd probably use 1x3's or 1x4's around the perimeter, as well as a couple cross braces.

Good luck!

[riogrande]

Agree with quik, a frame made of 1x4's is pretty standard for layout tables and/modules.

[KIM]

It's good to see a "couple" sharing the hobby, and I hope you both have years of enjoyment with it. If I might, I would also suggest some support for the layout. Good luck, and I'll keep watching and cheering for both of you.

[Deleted]

Jun 17, 2012 18:46:34 GMT -8 onequiknova said:

Not to rain on your parade, but your going to need to frame you table top to keep it from sagging. It all ready has a bit of a sag to it and its only going to get worse. For a 4x8, I'd probably use 1x3's or 1x4's around the perimeter, as well as a couple cross braces.

Good luck!

Make it a second.

No frame and it WILL sag. When it sags, you won't be able to keep the choo choo's on the track.

[dutch245]

Sounds good, ill look into getting some lumber on the way home. Ill post a pic when we get it done!

[dutch245]

So I'm watching some videos on my lunch break at work, and I had a question pop into my head. I was looking at videos of how to lay down roadbed, and I noticed that some modelers had their tables painted, either a brown for dirt or a green for grass, and some modelers did not paint their table yet.

Does it make a huge difference to begin painting after laying the track? That was my original plan, that way I don't run the risk of messing up a paint job when I'm laying down my track.

Thanks!

[edwardsutorik]

If you're going to have scenery, primer white might be a good choice, 'cause you can see lines you draw on it really easily. If you're thinking of just having a flat plywood table (Oh, the horror!!!!!), I think I'd still paint it later, 'cause you might change your mind on what colors go where.

I suppose the reason to paint the plywood even if you're doing scenery might be that the scenery might "chip". But that's a pretty easy repair. And, as you note, you can paint later.

I think I'd paint it with an oil based flat white primer. That should minimize water reaction with the wood when/if you put stuff on it like wet plaster. And you can draw your track plan on it really easily. And maybe erase parts of it, too (kidding, sort of).


Ed

[dutch245]

We have 1-1/2" thick foam glued on top of the plywood, it's a nice pink panther pink color. Should we paint that white?

[edwardsutorik]

Probably not necessary. If you do, I expect a water-based paint would be in order, not oil. I'd still pick white as the color. I haven't worked with foam (yet). Someone else who has probably has more to say.


Ed

[Deleted]

I wouldn't use an oil on the foam. I discovered that track cleaner eats up pink foam board. You don't know what an oil will do to the foam.

If you are going to have scenery, you are wasting your time painting the foam.

[riogrande]

There is no right or wrong way regarding painting table. Generally in the past, I used either homosote (in yards) or open grid in other areas. In the beginning I left the homosote natural and drew my track centers on it, and would color, scenic after the track was laid. However, it was advised I paint the homosote to seal it from moisture, so in that case I used a neutral tan color which I could draw centerlines on but would lend itself to a natural ground color until something more permanent was in place. You can always mask the track if you need to paint around it and remove the masking.

[dutch245]

Okay, we will probably leave it as is and go from there. I built the frame today, here's some pictures of it!

imgur.com/a/6uCQA

[dutch245]

I would also like to thank a good friend of mine, Bernie. He supplied us with some woodland scenics roadbed! ;D

If anyone else wants to throw stuff at us, we wouldn't stop you ;D ;D ;D

[dutch245]

Here's the table with our small little stock layout, just taking up room until our real track gets here on Friday!

imgur.com/t6Syf

[edwardsutorik]

And we're off!

If those center legs bother you, you can always "laminate" 1x4's onto the sides.


Ed

[riogrande]

Agree with Ed. The frame looks to be made of very narrow lumber so it might not be rigid enough to avoid bowing if you use only 4 legs.

Ideally, you should use 1x4 lumber for outside frame members, which would be rigid enough for a 4x8, perhaps a 5x9 frame. That is the dimension lumber I used on my first garage layout and it worked fine. AND BTW, I was a starving college student! I got a lot of scrap lumber from the roll-off waste containers at construction sites back then and managed alot of usable chunks of half inch particle board and some frame lumber as well - I didn't need to buy but a modest amount from lumber stores and the completed layout was 16x19', minimum radius 30-inches and passing sidings of at least 13 feet.

[dutch245]

Okay, we might look into it. We will be getting our track from UPS tomorrow, an we're planning on setting up a rough layout. If those middle legs prove to be a pain, we'll see if we can scrounge up some one by fours.

Thanks!

[dutch245]

I got a question about the layout that we chose (layout 4 from the first page), a possible modification we're looking at doing.

Talking with my dad, we're a little afraid that having just the one loop may get a little boring quick. I was thinking of maybe adding a second loop, maybe an 18" radius. This poses an issue with the yard in the lower left corner of the layout.

I was thinking that since the table has a 2-1/2" thick sheet of foam on top of the plywood, that maybe we could cut the foam down to the plywood and pass the second loop under the yard completely.

What do you all think?

[rhpd42002]

Dutch, I don't think you're going to have enough room to go under the yard, as I believe the minimum height needed from railtop to underside of an overpass/bridge, etc. is at least 3", according to my NMRA standards guage.

[Donnell Wells]

One other thing you could do to strengthen your benchwork is to add an additional 1 x 2 or 3 to the bottom edge, between the legs, forming a partial L-girder. Then, you could safely remove the middle legs and have better access to the underside of your layout. It does not matter if the L-girders are inverted as the essential benefit comes more from the stiffened frame member than its cosmetic orientation.

[edwardsutorik]

Jun 22, 2012 4:44:49 GMT -8 dutch245 said:

I was thinking of maybe adding a second loop, maybe an 18" radius.

That's kinda like plan 3--the one you were talking about originally. My gripe with plan 3 is that there's only one crossover. I think there should also be one on the other side--going the "other direction". And I'd add a couple of switches on the inside for spur tracks--I'd probably use sharp curves, maybe 15", 'cause mainline engines wouldn't go on these tracks.

With plan 4, I'd try to get that tail over on the left to curve around and join the spur track on the top. This would give a run-around, which'll make more switching possibilities. and maybe also one of those 15" industry track on the upper spur, also.

You can have a "double track" mainline, or you can have switching. You can't have both on a 4x8. Except in N. Unless I'm wrong.

I think either layout is pretty god for starting out. If you get more serious later, you'll probably scrap it out and start over. Pretty much everyone does, except John Allen (very famous and interesting model railroader). He put his original 4x6 layout into his much larger layout. So, you could go that route, too, someday.



Ed

[spookyac47]

Jun 18, 2012 9:14:00 GMT -8 edwardsutorik said:

. . . . . .

I suppose the reason to paint the plywood even if you're doing scenery might be that the scenery might "chip". But that's a pretty easy repair. And, as you note, you can paint later.

. . . .

Ed

One of the primary reasons to paint/seal plywood, especially in areas that have big changes in moisture in the air, is to try to seal the plywood against the moisture to minimize warping from the effects of moisture in the air.
This especially applies to homasote materials as well, even more so than the plywood.



It's a dry heat . . .

[dutch245]

Okay, we might look into putting on a coat of a brown / tan paint on the foam before we put the track down. I''m also planning on putting some beefier lumber on the frame, as well as some cross members to make sure the frame stays nice and solid.

We did an initial run of the track to make sure it works. I took a video of it, here's the link!:

[dutch245]

We've started to put down the roadbed, we got a bunch of the black foam kind. So far it isn't too bad, but I'm not looking forward to the yard!

Here is a picture of it, along with the rebuilt table:

imgur.com/a/NGlg4

[rhpd42002]

Looking like some good progress.

Don't be too worried about the yard. Just test fit all the track and mark your track centers or outline the ties so you can get your roadbed down correctly.