Picking the best speaker for my new frisco g38

[grabbem88]

It's an Atlas master non sound chassis..

Wasn't in the mood in cutting the rear weight so I'm going to ask what you have tried..

I'm going to be using an esu loksound direct select board since I have room for that.

Since I have spare weights from other 38's what about taking another front weight and using that as my already modified speaker mount?

I prefer to have everything mounted on the chassis so I can still remove shell completely plus I still have a led/bulb holder to keep the rear light lined up better..

I'm really looking for the best sound possible for this install

I know railmaster makes awesome speakers... I've used them but will a ds1436 be plenty??

I really want this engine to rock!

Thanks art

[Mark R.]

The Loksound decoders work most efficiently using 4 ohm speakers, so that would be the first decision. Second would be speaker size. In your installation, best bet would be one of Loksound's 16mm X 35mm speakers.

Now, here's the real kicker .... don't use one of those plastic boxes as an enclosure for a speaker - make one out of wood ! I've made many custom enclosures from wood and the improvement in sound is much richer. Think about it - would your home stereo speakers sound better in a wood cabinet or a plastic tote box ? Lastly, be sure your speaker is sealed air tight in its enclosure. Even the smallest leak (around the wires even) will affect the sound quality.

Mark.

[grabbem88]

Mark thanks and I always wondered about trying to make an enclosure out of wood like balsa or something..

Don't get me wrong making enclosures out of styrene/plastic is easier and cost effective for reproduction with the molds they use, I just wasnt sure if sound would carry the same when its bouncing around in a plastic shell..

My enclosures have always turned out well as I even take silicone and fill those mounting holes and any other missed gaps and holes..

So only one speaker though??

[grabbem88]

I went to esu sight and there 16x35 is rated at 8 ohm so there is no gain with there speaker in that size unless I run a pair of them to bring ohms to 4

Now I could run a 16x35 in the back and put a 14x12 square in the DB hatch area where qsi put there mini oval at??

I think the air being pushed around better since I'm blocking the sound moving passed the open fan and actually putting sound through it?..

The only if is the 14x12 being less than 10mm thick?

[Mark R.]

My apologies, the 16mm X 35mm IS 8 ohms. Regardless, they work just as well, that's what I use in the majority of my installations if they will fit. On a scale of 1 to 150 (lokprogrammer setting), I usually have the volume set to around 40 and it's still plenty loud !

Contrary to popular belief, I find I get much better sound if there are no openings in the shell like fans or grills. On brass engines, I always seal them off. This allows the speaker to use the interior of the shell to resonate into. If you are bench testing your decoder, listen to the speaker as it sits in the enclosure, then place it into a mug and hear the difference. Poor comparison, I know - but you can hear how much improved the sound can be when it has something to bounce off of.

A similar comparison on a larger scale .... your home stereo speakers sound pretty good in your living room because they are bouncing off the walls. Now set them them on your deck facing into the yard and note how diminished they sound at the same volume. A lot of people like to mount their speakers blowing straight out the fans, which isn't really idea it you want a rich sound.

Mark.

[grabbem88]

I totally understand and my home stereo is klipsch so I know what you are talking about and my neighbors unfortunately too lol!

Anyways I ordered esu 16x35 and 2 of there 14x12's

I'm gonna slip one in the cab. Since they are 5.5 in height

If not I have a rsd 4/5 that the 2 20mm HB's didn't impress me as much but I'm comparing a tsunami to my esu rs3 and omg does it sound off.

Truth be told I'm trying to compare a previous build... Gp38 bnsf with two qsi speakers in the A pillars pushed by a tsunami and this thing really gets your attention!

That's why I want this esu gp38 frisco to be on par and hopefully better..

Now one more question.... I see that frisco 38's don't have ditch lights and fine with that but they almost all have beacons..

What beacons (working) do you use??

[Mark R.]

I've usually made my own operating beacons using Details West castings / lenses. For the LED, I've used both an 0402 SMD LED and a turned down 3mm LED inserted from inside the cab, both with good results.

Mark.

[grabbem88]

What if I use a bulb like from an athearn and put it in place of lense?

I couple atlas style and dw's somewhere

[Mark R.]

You could use a bulb, but I wouldn't recommend using the Athearn bulbs - they are well noted for their short life ....

Mark.

[grabbem88]

Made one with a 3 flat top cylindrical. Turned pretty good..used a DW beacon base and reamed hole a tad bigger ..

Yeah the athearn bulbs wasn't what I meant.. It was minitronics but I guess the results would be the same

[grabbem88]

Ok this is what I'm attempting..Mark please chime in if you want...

1 esu direct select

1 esu 16x35 8ohm mounted rear long hood

1 esu 14x12mm #50326 8ohm mounted to dynamic brake/shell

Wired parallel to drop it to 4ohm load

If I see no gain then ill just stick with the 16x35 speaker only..but I think the sugar cube style speaker is going to help a lot .. I hope lol.

I'm really trying to. Stay away from hacking chopping cutting on this engine

Thanks art

[Mark R.]

The physics of your combination will work. My concern would be that you are using two entirely different speakers that will respond differently to their power input. The smaller one will be over-driven before the larger one .... but then again, depending on the specs of the two speakers, you might get away with it not sounding too bad.

Try it with both speakers and try it with just the 16 X 35 and let YOUR ears decide which you like the best. Personally, I don't care for excessive high frequencies in a diesel engine - which the 14 X 12 will excel at.

Let us know your results.

Mark.

[grabbem88]

That was my thoughts as well. And the only speakers I have on hand is a 23mm high bass square and a pair of 27mm rounds..

I ran into this on my U28 build. Using a 16x35 up front and a mini oval in back.. I had to take all the highs down real low to keep from distorting on the mini.. Plus one for tsunami...

Decoder just arrived so ill do it tomorrow and try with 16x35 only. My other single speaker jobs had plenty of sound so ill block that DB hatch fan so the shell is sealed so to speak..

On those 14x12's ill probably sell/trade or install in a later project or maybe have 4 speakers in my rsd4/5 two 20mm high bass plus two 12x14's. who knows? Lol!

Thanks art

[grabbem88]

Well that sucked... The esu speaker was fubarred from the get and wasnt happy no screws were supplied for there enclosure...

So I'm ordering a railmaster never had a issue with those..


For what I did with using a front weight in the rear worked great and the speaker enclosure fit perfect.

Oh well

[grabbem88]

Mark everything is done and sounds awesome! I only used one speaker and was plenty.

Ok snag part. If i wanted to wire in a beacon do I use aux3 and 4 or just aux 3 and common track power..??

All I have left is the beacon no other light effects..

Thanks art

[Mark R.]

You've already used four functions ? - white, yellow, green and violet ? Green and violet are Aux1 and Aux2 respectively. For a beacon, you only need a single function. Are you using a Select decoder or a Select Direct (Atlas style board) ?

Mark.

[grabbem88]

Select direct atlas style..

On pg 14 really doesn't explain much and from the rest all I noticed was aux 3 is preset to mars light..

Help me if ya can lol

Thanks art

[Mark R.]

I can help you no problem. Which sound file are you using ? What lights do you have connected to which function ? What function button do you want the beacon on ? The more specific you are, the better I can set things up for you.

Edit ....

I'm going to assume you are using file 73426 as that would be the correct file for your GP38. I'm also going to assume you only have front and rear headlights connected. To add your rotary beacon, the negative lead of your LED to the Aux3 pad and connect your positive lead to one of the Common (+ pole) pads on the same side. You won't need a resistor with your LED as they already have resistors onboard. Once you have everything connected, set the following ....

CV31 = 16, CV32 = 0
----------------------
CV291 = 7
CV295 = 128

Be sure to set CV31 and CV32 first. Your LED will now be configured as a rotary beacon and will be controlled by F5.

Mark.

[grabbem88]

When I printed the manual I missed that page well 29 through 32 lol

Well she is all buttoned up darn near factory perfect... Couple of my lift rings went bye-bye so I filled them with some black spares till I find the paint that matches this..

Anyways yes it's that part number and love how it throttles horn is clear all lighting is fixed btw had it on 16 not 128..

Now I hear Herman has a new file coming up for atlas most likely. He says its better in many ways..

Since I couldn't wait and have no way of uploading and downloading how expensive is the software/hardware??

Train is not seeing mailman too many close calls lately..

So I guess it's time to upload a video of this frisco?

Thanks for helping me out Mark you made my project successful

Art

[Mark R.]

The software is a free download from the ESU web site. The LokProgrammer hardware will run you around $160 to $180 depending on where you source it.

Mark.

[grabbem88]

Ouch. I'm not that big of a fleet so I might just live with this file..

Have you heard how soon we gonna get a real

Fairbanks trainmaster?

[Mark R.]

It's on the "to-do" list, but I don't know how far out it is ....

As for changing the sound file in your Select Direct, if you can't do it yourself, you could easily pop the decoder off the motherboard and send it to someone to do it for you. That's the beauty of that design !

Mark.

[grabbem88]

Oh ok well that makes things really simple then..

About the fairbanks I remember he said he was heading out to record one but that was a month or so ago..

I have a Pennsylvania sitting on the bench and for what's out there or havnt seen yet rather a correct sound decoder??

[grabbem88]

Sorry for the botched video. Kids zapped almost all my memory on phone and it stopped in its tracks..

Any pointers or corrections let me know. I'm learning on the esu stuff

[Mark R.]

Maybe it's just the video, but that beacon is awfully bright ! You can dim it down if it is in fact too bright ....

CV31 = 16, CV32 = 0
----------------------
CV294 = 0 (dimmest) to 31 (brightest)

Be sure to set CV's 31 and 32 first.

Or, you could increase the resistor value you have on the LED.

Mark.

[grabbem88]

No you are right it is bright and I went from 30 to 20 on brightness.. It definately needs to be dimmed..

Btw I have a local guy who sells 10 of those soft white/yellow smd 603's wired up for like $9.00 shipped!!

So it was well worth the experiment.

I did notice some kind of electrical noise when running would you know what causes that? There isn't any noise with sound off though

Kinda hard to describe but it is tinny and faint

[Mark R.]

That electrical noise you are hearing is probably the BEMF. You can turn it off by setting CV49 to 18 if you want to try it. With the BEMF off, you may find you will need to increase your starting voltage. Set it back to 19 to turn it back on.

If that's not the case, it could be your speaker. Do you hear the noise ALL the time ? - like a steady static ? Did you operate the sound for very long at the default maximum volume ? It's possible you slightly ruptured the voice coil in the speaker. I've gotten in the habit of turning the volume way down first before I even attempt to turn it on .... I've damaged three or four speakers doing that. The speaker still works, but there's an overlayed static on the sound. The amount of static will vary depending on how bad the the voice coil has ruptured.

The Loksound decoders are quite capable of producing big sound - hook one up to a 10 inch speaker sometime, it's pretty impressive ! They have enough drive to easily damage a little speaker rated at 1 watt or less.

If turning off the BEMF doesn't affect it, try a different speaker and see if it goes away. Don't forget to turn the sound down from full volume first !

Mark.

[grabbem88]

That's it!

Why in so many words is my bemf so loud??

I turned it off and you hear nothing and wow is it quite

Thanks art

[Mark R.]

I've talked to ESU about the motor buzz and they are aware of it. It basically comes down to how the decoder reads the BEMF, and with ESU decoders having such precision motor control, they work best with a high quality precision motor. Kato and the old Atlas / Kato motors are dead quiet. Seems as though ANY sloppiness in the motor tolerances will create that electrical noise. Some older Canon motors in brass can be terrible !

ESU is currently in the process of revising either their hardware on the decoder or revising the decoder entirely to compensate for this. Unfortunately, it can't be fixed with just a software change. That's the trouble with having a high precision product - if everything else in the chain isn't high precision as well, you'll get results like this.

Fortunately, for now it's an easy fix by just turning off the BEMF and tweaking the start voltage.

Mark.

[grabbem88]

Atleast you know what I'm talking about lol and I wouldn't of noticed it but I'm anal with my projects..

Atleast start voltage only had to be bumped up to 12

Although I did switch it back to 19 because that motor control is awesome!

Thanks again

Art