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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2012 10:25:11 GMT -8
Guess what Athearn is making a commitment. So is Intermountain. They are giving us the SE models Walthers won't. Regional bias has always existed and probably will continue. Just as Athearn tended to ignore anything east of the Rockies, Walthers usually avoids anything south of the Mason-Dixon line. And regional bias isn't necessarily old school. Andy I've stated many times the manufacturers must have some data they rely on to make their decisions. In today's world, with the "Chinese problem" and an economy in the United States that is far from firing on all cylinders, all manufacturers have to be pretty darn sure they made the right decision on to make and what not to make. I truly believe the manufacturers have comfort levels for certain prototypes and uncertainty for others. Due to the production problems in China, a manufacturer can't take too many chances, since production space is limited. |
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cmarchan
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Post by cmarchan on Jul 13, 2012 11:03:16 GMT -8
I've stated many times the manufacturers must have some data they rely on to make their decisions. In today's world, with the "Chinese problem" and an economy in the United States that is far from firing on all cylinders, all manufacturers have to be pretty darn sure they made the right decision on to make and what not to make. I truly believe the manufacturers have comfort levels for certain prototypes and uncertainty for others. Due to the production problems in China, a manufacturer can't take too many chances, since production space is limited. Jim, I agree with your comments. It is the reality of today's market. With that said, I have found the comfort level does not change if they do not have evidence to show interest where it was believed there was little or none. It is imperative modelers speak up and be counted if we want to give them confidence in a project. If we stand mute, the old assumptions will continue. I know every SCL model made in the last few years was made because evidence was presented by respected modelers/ historical society members. This process requires constant communication and time. I would assume most have heard the axiom " Kit-bash or model it and it'll be announced for release when you finish it". Well in some cases, that has sparked interest when the unit was presented at a RPM or a NMRA show. It creates a buzz that opens a dialog with a prospective manufacturer. Spreading the word and giving feedback to the manufacturer creates interest on their end. I don't think it's a coincidence Athearn is making ATSF, and UP models based on units displayed at west coast modeling meets, or are present in brass or kit-bashed form at clubs and similar events. The west coast guys and gals are in their back yard. Invites to these events are the key. This has worked for us in SCL territory as direct communication at such an event resulted in produced models. Why can't a forum serve as a powerful tool? If the feedback is genuine and abundant it could lead to projects. Do most of us truly feel all models are picked solely on the manufacturer's discretion? Or what they want to model? Carl |
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Post by el3637 on Jul 13, 2012 11:19:12 GMT -8
It is imperative modelers speak up and be counted if we want to give them confidence in a project. If we stand mute, the old assumptions will continue. One old saw that I presume is dead is "six axle diesels don't sell". I heard this one a lot and even heard it include Bachmann's miserable dash 8 40C as "evidence". The truth is, sometimes a POS sells and sometimes it doesn't. The Bachmann dash 8 was a POS, and it *did* sell well enough to make several runs, and Bachmann even "improved" it, and it remained a POS and still sold. Even so, the trashing it got supposedly put off other manufacturers from doing (pick one) modern diesels, six axle diesels, or the 8 40C specifically. I tend to not believe those claims.... if manufacturer B tells me, "We're not going to make an XX533 because A made one and you guys trashed it", that's just claptrap. Just an ordinary blowoff with implied guilt and no basis in reality at all. When I hear that, I have to assume the manufacturer is just not interested... or they're already working on the XX533 and that's their way of smoking it. If I learned anything from the whole Athearn geep situation, it *seems* to be that I need to make direct phone contact about such things and not assume a manufacturer is reading a forum - or their own facebook page. Or that the person reading has anything to do with the product development. Or that the person reading has any regard for the people posting on the subject to the point of even checking into it. In spite of the communication web we have today, it does seem that pat dismissals and form-letter responses are still very much in vogue. When we get one, in whatever form, it's up to each of us to decide if it's worth the trouble to go beyond the initial blow-off and try to get somewhere. I pretty much decide on a case by case basis. When it came to that large scale GP30, I just laughed and walked away. When it came to the Genesis geep, I really felt that from reading facebook and the forum, the Great and Powerful Oz had spoken, and that either the R&D people were 100% convinced they were right, or 100% ordered by top management not to discuss it and that was that. I was wrong. And I'll never use facebook for anything important again. Andy |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2012 16:22:26 GMT -8
Why can't a forum serve as a powerful tool? If the feedback is genuine and abundant it could lead to projects. Year after year on the old Atlas forum when the locomotive wish list thread would be unleashed, multiple people harped If Athearn would do the EMD SDP45 it would sell like hotcakes. The post usually had a line such as, "I'd be in for six" or whatever. For the last few months, a brass dealer on e-Bay had offered one of the Union Terminal Imports brass SDP45's in both Burlington Northern GN patch and Southern Pacific. The list price on these models were $990. His starting price was $575, neither sold. He relisted, same result, no sale. The dealer dropped the price on the BN/GN model to $475, well below dealer net. Still no sale. The dealer then dropped the price to $375!!!!......STILL NO SALE!!!!!. FINALLY after re listing it for about the six time at $375 he sold it and the SP version for $575. Each model was serial numbered and was ONE OF TEN! When you can't sell a brand new brass model (2010 production) for even dealer net just how popular is that model? The shocker was the Southern Pacific. The SP's SDP45's were starlets for many years in San Francisco commuter service. I was blown away. Now, if you are Athearn and see the difficulty in the sale of a collectible brass model, at a price nearly 2/3's off list and slightly above a plastic unit, you have to take notice. What would Athearn learn? That at least one of the three paint schemes the prototype wore, is maybe weak in popularity. In the case of the SP, you are dealing with a prototype that was famous with rail fans and has enjoyed a steady following in model form with previous brass models. So how did the wheels fall off the wagon for a model that is supposed to be popular, highly collectible and being one of ten is truly RARE?  If you are an exec at Athearn, how comfortable are you with pulling the trigger and investing hundred of thousands of dollars on tooling......for a model in new production brass that is selling for bargain basement prices? If I were in charge I'd be leaning totally on the side of cautious and "we'll see". Do most of us truly feel all models are picked solely on the manufacturer's discretion? Or what they want to model? Carl Fastest way for a manufacturer or a hobby shop to go out of business, is to do or purchase models that they personally want for their own use and/or collection. My friend owned a hobby shop for 14 years. He used to preach to me that you NEVER let your personal preferences influence your business decisions. Just because you like railroad "X" doesn't necessarily mean the customers share your enthusiasm. A manufacturer may not personally like some particular prototype, but if there is money to be made, he needs or should at least consider doing the project. Same holds true for a hobby store. A hobby shop in Minneapolis will more than likely have a tough time selling ACL F-units. Likewise, a shop in Tampa will find it difficult to move SP&S. Manufacturers like hobby stores can be regional in what they elect to sell. Athearn has always had a heavy dose of western prototypes, just as Atlas likes things that stay east of the Mississippi. I believe that if a manufacturer doesn't feel a comfort level in a model, it doesn't get produced. A manufacturer, I believe, relies on a lot of gut feelings. |
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Post by el3637 on Jul 13, 2012 17:33:41 GMT -8
For the last few months, a brass dealer on e-Bay had offered one of the Union Terminal Imports brass SDP45's in both Burlington Northern GN patch and Southern Pacific. The list price on these models were $990. His starting price was $575, neither sold. He relisted, same result, no sale. The dealer dropped the price on the BN/GN model to $475, well below dealer net. Still no sale. The dealer then dropped the price to $375!!!!......STILL NO SALE!!!!!. FINALLY after re listing it for about the six time at $375 he sold it and the SP version for $575. I saw the announcement of these models, and the astronomical sticker price. I didn't know they had actually been released - never even saw a pic of them. I wouldn't buy a brass model of any EMD hood unit. Even if it's one not available in RTR plastic. I don't think comparing to the brass market - even at stiffly reduced prices - has much relevance to the plastic market, even if by the time they got done knocking the price down, they were close to sticker territory for a new run plastic diesel with noise. I've had several chances to buy an OMI SDP45 for that number or around there and passed every time. I built my own SDP45 - and in fact was dangled a very tempting offer on a brass one while I was in the middle of building it but declined. It's just a gut feeling, but increasingly brass and plastic don't mix even while their prices seemingly grow closer together. How long did it take Ampolex to get rid of all of their Ingalls units? Wait, don't answer... they still have at least one left currently on ebay. The price has come down quite a bit too on the remaining solid red units - apparently the ones in earlier schemes were fewer in number and sold out. I wanted one, but balked at the price until someone offered me a swap for a piece I had that he wanted, so for an OMI U25C and some cash, I got my Ingalls. In spite of this, I think a plastic Ingalls would sell. Not 10,000 copies, but a $300 plastic model would probably sell a run of 200. But as we know, a run of 200 in plastic isn't really feasible. I think you may have a point in that the peak interest in the SDP45 may have passed. The only company that really is in the park to do it is Athearn. I think they'd do the best job, and they'd offer both versions in original form as well as all of the later owners. Yes, their motivation would be to do the SP version, but they'd have to cover the EL too, because even if they pretended EL and Conrail didn't exist, some of the EL's made it back to SP and even UP. And Athearn already has a very good track record on recent EL offerings, with the SD45 - a fairly decent treatment of the RPP tool that even has the low profile stuff and correct horn - as well as the unique EL SD45-2, which they flat out nailed. Maybe now is not the time, but I don't think a Genesis SDP45 would die on the shelf. But there may not be the numbers for a full run either. At least not today. I built my own already, but I'd love to have an SP version and if Athearn did 4 more numbers in EL, I'd buy them all. Brass, no. Andy |
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Post by drolsen on Jul 14, 2012 2:43:40 GMT -8
I wouldn't buy a brass model of any EMD hood unit. Even if it's one not available in RTR plastic. I don't think comparing to the brass market - even at stiffly reduced prices - has much relevance to the plastic market, even if by the time they got done knocking the price down, they were close to sticker territory for a new run plastic diesel with noise. I completely agree. I don't even look at brass diesels on eBay, or anywhere else. I occasionally look for brass freight cars or cabooses, but I bought one brass diesel (an OMI GP15T) about 10 years ago and was so disappointed by how the EMD hood doors and other details were rendered that I've never looked at another brass diesel. Even a brass diesel that's discounted over 60% isn't appealing to me at all. My ultimate "dream" diesel model would be an accurate MARC GP40WH-2: MARC 69: drolsen.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1564083I'd like to have about 6 of them for commuter service on the CSX Baltimore and Metropolitan Subs, but a brass version would just be disappointing to me (not to mention very expensive), so I'm going to eventually forge ahead with my plans to kitbash one in plastic. Dave |
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Post by curtmc on Jul 14, 2012 6:10:01 GMT -8
Three new IM SCL U18B units with DCC and sound were listed recently on eBay and none got bids above $95...
A brand new Athearn Genesis SCL SD45-2 with DCC and sound sold for less than $100 last month...
New Proto SCL GP38-2s have sold for less than $50...
Does anybody else need additional evidence that SCL is not as popular as some biased people believe it is? Does a manufacturer need any more proof that making SCL units is a risk?
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Post by railthunder on Jul 14, 2012 13:19:53 GMT -8
Three new IM SCL U18B units with DCC and sound were listed recently on eBay and none got bids above $95... A brand new Athearn Genesis SCL SD45-2 with DCC and sound sold for less than $100 last month... New Proto SCL GP38-2s have sold for less than $50... Does anybody else need additional evidence that SCL is not as popular as some biased people believe it is? Does a manufacturer need any more proof that making SCL units is a risk? I've seen Santa Fe Atlas diesels go for less than $50 and as a matter of fact there are several on there right now for less. So your evidence just got thrown out of court! The GP38-2s had a high production run like the E8As so I'm not surprised and also thankful that a Southeastern modeler AND the Santa Fe modeler can get models at a good cost that they might have missed the first time around - heck we've all found a bargain or two with our model trains, including you by your previous comments at train shows. The U18Bs have some shell and paint defects that require a bit to fix right. The yellow stripes are the wrong tint and width. This may not bother the people that won those and/or they may have other plans for them such as a custom road. The SD45-2 was built with a MRC sound decoder that didn't sound well, so not surprised it sold for less, any more so than another roadname that had them as well. But again, maybe someone had another use for it and/or wanted to get it for someone as an introduction to sound. A modified dummy SCL SD45-2 went for over $60 a while back. Secondly, you've been quite vocal in your displeasure of models that aren't done right in the past and thats understandable. You of all people shouldn't expect a model to go for a higher price if it isn't done right. Last, but not least - "Biased" - Come on, thats borderline disrespectful, rude, and hateful. How dare you attack others modeling interests. Yes, we enjoy southeast stuff, but I'm geniunely interested in many roads and enjoy reading about them etc. You should know better than that. |
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Post by curtmc on Jul 14, 2012 16:23:10 GMT -8
You are wrong Railthunder... Santa Fe units do get high bids... Santa Fe SD45-2s have been selling for about 50% to 100% more than what SCL ones go for DESPITE the Santa Fe ones being produced in far greater numbers, and despite some having been done with incorrect numbers for the phase.
True, some Santa Fe units do not get high bids... Usually because there are so many available at any given time. (Manufacturers expect more sales so they produce more, and still some sell out fast)
I have been told direct by Atlas, Athearn, OMI and others that southeastern roads like SCL and Family Lines do not sell well when they do them... I asked RP of Atlas how the Family Lines B23s sold and he just shook his head and said not even to the low level they expected... (I was surprised because I thought they had done a great job on the model). Another manufacturer when asked about a SCL unit chuckled and said "we did that because it was another roadname we could do, and we almost had to end up giving them away"...
Listen... I model CSX and I would love for a wider variety of SCL and Family Line units to be available. I have asked for them. Many times. But I have come to the point of taking off the blinders and recognizing the truths in what the manufacturers have said...
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Post by antoniofp45 on Jul 14, 2012 16:46:49 GMT -8
Curt, respectfully I agree with Howard's statement above.
Regarding the glut of U18Bs from Intermountain....again, easy explanation. Have you seen the cabs on them? The windows are glaringly too tall. Other body details are incorrect. The "semi-quick fix" is to toss the IM cab and purchase an Atlas or Hi-Tech Details GE cab. OK, now we're spending more money! I reserved and bought a new IM U18-B three years back. Like a number of fellow modelers I was irritated that, after paying over $100 for it, to get it looking "reasonably close to the prototype" I have to
1. Go through the hassle of ordering a cab from Atlas or Hi-Tech Details. Pay the cost plus shipping.
2. Trim/file/modify the cab so that it will fit on the Intermountain U-18B body.
3. Paint and clear coat the cab. Paint the number boards.
4. Apply decal cab numbers, stripes and numberboard decals.
5. Carefully tone down the clear to match the locomotive.
That's not even addressing the other goofs that Howard mentioned above, but for me that will be "good enough". Yes, I can understand why there was a glut of IM U18Bs, not just in SCL. I thought about getting another U18B but then decided against it. I'm going to modify the one I have and "be grateful" that it was produced. This goes back to the "Make it 98-99% correct and the modelers will buy it! Had it been more accurate, I'd want at least one more unit.
To clarify, my reference regarding the 1% to 2% of work needed on a model that's almost "spot on" would be something quick, such as: replacing single chime "honker" horns with a 5-chimer, adding a firecracker antenna, gluing on a bell on to the underframe, painting the edge of cab steps safety yellow, adding a rerail frog, or adding platform drop steps.
To their credit, Intermountain did a great job on the SCL F-units and according to IM, they're good sellers!
Again, as mentioned, the Athearn SCL SD45-2 was not a common unit as there were only 15 prototypes. In having interacted with SCL modelers in person and on the web......I've found that there was and still is strong interest in SCL U-BOATS, Geeps and Alcos in the black & yellow scheme.......not rare EMDs. Additionally the MRC equipped SD45-2 was not a smooth runner, as I saw first hand during a demo at my former LHS. The better deal was to buy non-sound and install a LokSound or other better brand DCC-sound unit.
As I've already stated, try finding a P2K SCL GP9, GP18, or SD45 in the black and yellow scheme on Ebay! They were very common at one time. Not anymore. The ones that do show up no longer fetch $50-$60 bid prices. I've seen $100-$140 final bids on the few that do show up quite a number of times. Same for the Intermountain SCL F-units. Currently they hardly pop up on Ebay (yes, I check). Seems like that that more owners are hanging on to their SCL units.
If we want to be nitpicky, the SCL black & yellow schemed locomotives are more in demand than the gray Family Lines scheme. Not official info, but I get this by talking with a cross section of southeastern modelers.
BTW Curt: SCL, Family Lines, Seaboard System, and CSX are all related chronologically, yet there are modelers that will model one and have little to no interest in the other two or three, just as there are late era NYC modelers that have little to no interest in having Penn Central units.
Like Howard, I'm also interested in a variety of roads as well, especially the New Haven.
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Post by railthunder on Jul 14, 2012 21:24:22 GMT -8
You are wrong Railthunder... Santa Fe units do get high bids... Santa Fe SD45-2s have been selling for about 50% to 100% more than what SCL ones go for DESPITE the Santa Fe ones being produced in far greater numbers, and despite some having been done with incorrect numbers for the phase. True, some Santa Fe units do not get high bids... Usually because there are so many available at any given time. (Manufacturers expect more sales so they produce more, and still some sell out fast) I have been told direct by Atlas, Athearn, OMI and others that southeastern roads like SCL and Family Lines do not sell well when they do them... I asked RP of Atlas how the Family Lines B23s sold and he just shook his head and said not even to the low level they expected... (I was surprised because I thought they had done a great job on the model). Another manufacturer when asked about a SCL unit chuckled and said "we did that because it was another roadname we could do, and we almost had to end up giving them away"... Listen... I model CSX and I would love for a wider variety of SCL and Family Line units to be available. I have asked for them. Many times. But I have come to the point of taking off the blinders and recognizing the truths in what the manufacturers have said... Curt, not going to tangle. The truth is no one on here is the intermediary between the manufacturers and us - no matter what or where anyone models. Period. We all have that same discretion and can use it accordingly. I'm sorry you had such negative experiences with manufacturers. We've certainly talked to different manufacturers and several have been extremely courteous, respectful, good listeners, provided positive comments, and have provided some great southeast products as well as other great stuff for other areas of the country. I've actually been told the exact opposite of what you were allegedly told. We had about the same dialogue on the Atlas forum on this very matter several years ago. Sure enough northeast, northwest, midwest, southwest and southeast models keep coming... |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2012 4:38:54 GMT -8
To their credit, Intermountain did a great job on the SCL F-units and according to IM, they're good sellers! Intermountain did a great job? ? At what applying the paint? The detail is generic and not prototype specific. The ONLY reason the Intermountain models sell is because they haven't been done by Athearn in the Genesis line. If Athearn were to do the SCL units, the Intermountain models would be what all Intermountain F's are.....second rate, when in direct competition with Genesis . As I've already stated, try finding a P2K SCL GP9, GP18, or SD45 in the black and yellow scheme on Ebay! They were very common at one time. Not anymore. The ones that do show up no longer fetch $50-$60 bid prices. I've seen $100-$140 final bids on the few that do show up quite a number of times. A black and yellow stripe SCL GP9 just sold on E-Bay yesterday for $49.95.....one bid.....kind of pours cold water on the above statement. Same for the Intermountain SCL F-units. Currently they hardly pop up on Ebay (yes, I check). Seems like that that more owners are hanging on to their SCL units. Some IMRC SCL shells just sold on e-Bay for $20 a piece. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2012 4:51:05 GMT -8
ALL of US can all put a spin on ANY road as far as sales or lack of sales. The fact is none of us have ALL the sales figures and production figures for any models. So there is absolutely nothing truly scientific about any statements by anybody.
What sells today on e-Bay for $50 can sell on e-Bay next week for $150. Just different fish in the pond at the given time. There are so many factors that effect sales you could spend hours upon hours collecting data and crunching numbers looking for patterns or the answer. There is no true holy grail.
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Post by antoniofp45 on Jul 15, 2012 7:18:36 GMT -8
Some IMRC SCL shells just sold on e-Bay for $20 a piece. Jim........cold water? If that's your view, so be it. I didn't realize that this was turning into a rib-jabbing session, sad to say.   Regarding the $20 shell? Yeah..............and I've seen "quality" shells from Atlas and Athearn sold for under $30 not too long ago. I regret not going for the F-unit Highliner shells that were at bargain prices a while back. I lurk (sometimes too often) on ebay quite a bit and the bid ranges run the gammit. The last P2K SCL SD45 I saw went for $114 and a P2K SCL GP18 went for $90+.....considering these units are seven years old or older those certainly weren't bad deals for the sellers. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2012 9:55:57 GMT -8
Some IMRC SCL shells just sold on e-Bay for $20 a piece. Jim........cold water? If that's your view, so be it. I didn't realize that this was turning into a rib-jabbing session, sad to say. Regarding the $20 shell? Yeah..............and I've seen "quality" shells from Atlas and Athearn sold for under $30 not too long ago. I regret not going for the F-unit Highliner shells that were at bargain prices a while back. I lurk (sometimes too often) on ebay quite a bit and the bid ranges run the gammit. The last P2K SCL SD45 I saw went for $114 and a P2K SCL GP18 went for $90+.....considering these units are seven years old or older those certainly weren't bad deals for the sellers. No rib jabs Antonio, my point is what sold for $150 last week, can sell for just $50 this week. Example, A P2K CNW GP9 phase II torpedo tube sold for $43 last week. THIS WEEK the same model by a different seller is bid up to $75 with four days to go. Anyone care to figure this out? ? My take is last week only little fish were in the pond, this week the lunkers are flexing their muscle. Until you sit down and take at least a year of every sale for a particular road name and or model, can you scratch the surface of going value. Then you need to factor in the time of year when the sale occurred, time the auction ended, seller reputation, type of buyer (newbie, big bucks spender, etc.), condition, shipping costs, how well written up, the list goes on. The bottom line is we get blinded by a few big numbers and begin to assume that it signifies desirability. But maybe the week or the few days we didn't look, the price wasn't so hefty. I've followed the P2K SD45's for a while because it is stated they are actually better body wise than the Kato. I've lurked putting stuff on my watch list and seen prices yo-yo from week to week. About the time I do bid is usually about the time the yo-yo is fully up and I lose. I've personally sold stuff on e-Bay that I got flat hammered on price, even though I knew I had a special item. I've sold old abandoned consignment merchandise from my friends shuttered hobby shop, like old wide body Athearn GP7's that must have come over on the Mayflower, and gotten $40? ? What's going on? There are a lot of DUD models on e-Bay. The last run of Genesis Milwaukee Road freight FP45's are a shinning example. The Santa Fe FP45's in pinstripe are horrible too as well as many other Genesis F and FP45's from the last few runs. Not all Genesis F-units sell for good prices, many sell for ridiculously low prices. Other Genesis F's can bring nose bleed prices. I used to collect Bicentennial and have been seeing the prices dropping on those models. I of course bought mine when the prices were high....  Why are prices dropping? The Bicentennial craze is waning??? The models are stagnant??? Over production? We all want our favorite road to be popular so that the manufacturers will produce more product for that road. But, not everything produced for even a road like the mighty Santa Fe sells. |
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Jul 15, 2012 9:58:52 GMT -8
Guys, please stop citing eBay as a interest meter. It doesn't work. All it takes is for two people to want a model, and two people are just not statistically relevant. Even with an auction with a dozen bidders, it's still irrelevant because it's just one auction, and perhaps the piece is rare. So unless somone is willing to keep tabs on items sold for a year or something like that, give it a break with the eBay listings. It doesn't prove (or disprove) much of anything. Heck, I saw a P1K NH DL109 go for over $300 once on eBay...does that make the NH more popular than the ATSF because the ATSF DL109's didn't go for as much? Of course not.
We will never get sales numbers from the manufacturers, which is really the only way to accurately judge interest. All we can do is look at what's been made, how often it's been made, and announced products that have or have not been made. Manufacturers are in the business to make money. They will make any road if it makes them money. That they continuously make certain roads indicates that there is a high level of interest in them, and likewise if they don't make certain roads often or at all, then it's an indication of lower interest.
Three years ago, I cataloged every Atlas and Athearn loco in a debate about Western and Eastern biases. Going back to my files, I can determine that Athearn made 18 Southeastern road names in 180 different numbers in the history of their website up to 2009, which makes it just about the entire decade from 2000 to 2009. Atlas made 23 Southeastern road names in 299 different numbers for the '00's. I did not count CSX or NS, as neither is strictly a Southeastern road anymore...
By comparison, Athearn made a total of 164 road names in 2774 road numbers. Atlas made 172 road names in 2278 road numbers. So of the totals, Southeastern roads accounted for 10.9% of Athearn road names and 6.5% of all Athearn locomotive production. They also accounted for 13.4% of Atlas road names and 13.1% of all Atlas locomotive production.
If you want to add CSX and NS, that would make the percentages 12.2% of Athearn road names and 14.4% of all Athearn loco production. For Atlas, that's 14.5% of road names, and 20.2% of all Atlas loco production.
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Post by nw611 on Jul 15, 2012 12:59:13 GMT -8
Paul, I'm just curious to know how you define Southeast ? South of the Mason Dixie Line ? Is L&N a Southeastern or a Midwestern road for you ? Thanks.
Raffaele
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Jul 15, 2012 15:40:45 GMT -8
nw611,
Here's my list of Southeastern roads I included in my count:
Athearn:
A&StAB
ACL
AN
AR
CG
CRR
D&S
FEC
GM&O
L&N
M&NA
N&W
NCDOT
RF&P
SAL
SBD
SCL
SOU
Atlas:
A&M
A&WP
ACL
AR
C&N
CG
CIRR
CRR
FEC
GA
L&N
N&E
N&W
NC&StL
RF&P
SBD
SGLR
SOU
TAG
TC
V&M
VGN
WATC
WRA
If anyone has any additions or subtractions, please let me know. I'll add them to the list and recalculate the percentages. BTW, these might not be "official" reporting marks for some of these shortlines and regionals. Quite frankly, I don't know them all. When I did this today, I looked up online where some of these roads are, and they appear to be Southeastern to me.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2012 15:55:50 GMT -8
Savanna & Atlanta or S&A
The Savanna & Atlanta was a Southern subsidiary with equipment painted in the tuxedo black and imitation aluminum band, but S & A lettering.
Interstate Railroad
I know Atlas did RS3's painted in Interstate Railroad's original scheme. Later Interstate's diesels got black and aluminum but still had "Interstate" for lettering.
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Post by el3637 on Jul 15, 2012 23:11:11 GMT -8
A black and yellow stripe SCL GP9 just sold on E-Bay yesterday for $49.95.....one bid.....kind of pours cold water on the above statement. I bought two SAL green geeps for $15 apiece. The seller had a post-it note on there saying "Call up Walthers to get a different shell!". Almost like saying nobody wants SAL... I just couldn't turn them down at the price, although I bought them before I had totally given up on the Proto drives of that vintage. I am not sure if I still have them. I *think* I may have ebayed one already and got quite a bit more than I paid for both though... so the other one is a freebie. Not sure what I will do with it though. If I can use any of the drive line parts, I might just ebay the shell separately someday. I actually could use a few bits of SCL power, or even ACL. Around 1975, there was no Family Lines paint but it was fairly frequent to see SCL running with L&N into Hammond. In fact I once caught an ACL C430, which was pretty cool. I don't remember seeing any original SAL power though. My ultimate B-fleet roster could potentially include an SCL U18B, SD45-2, and if the RTR C430 ever comes along, I will probably want several - ACL, NYC as built, PC, and I'll have to have a Reading too. Andy |
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Post by el3637 on Jul 15, 2012 23:22:01 GMT -8
I've followed the P2K SD45's for a while because it is stated they are actually better body wise than the Kato. The thing is the drives are goofy. I don't remember if Walthers has re-run them or not. I managed to procure some undec shells with the full detail parts package, including both walkway variants (thanks Mike Rose) when they were actually available. That will take care of my SD45 projects for the foreseeable future. More N&W units, and maybe a Penn Central. I wouldn't mind having a nice RTR one in Santa Fe bookend, but I think I missed getting the Athearn run. I actually have 0 P2K SD45s other than shells - but I've got several Athearn RTR 13-dips, EL, SP, Southern, and a D&H. All B-fleet and some already have gotten their Kato motors. For the others it's just time and priority - the Kato motors are expensive and I'm saving what I have for Superfleet projects right now. Athearn did such a nice job on their N&W 1776 that it probably postponed me doing a Superfleet version for a while. I also bought one of the Athearn Santa Fe Bicen SD45-2s. I passed on their DT&I Bicen... but now that they are doing a new GP38-2, it's probably just a matter of time until they do the DT&I both straight up and Bicen. I didn't like the paint job on their bluebox RTR version. Oh yeah, I have Athearn's EL Bicen SD45. That's more than enough. The N&W Bicen is a must-have, because I saw it frequently right smack dab in the middle of my modeling period including a "dream consist" that rolled by in front of my face, which included one of the elusive U30C's *and* a blue SD9 in a rare mainline move. The others are just for fun. Other than a possible DT&I, I don't see going for any more. I never saw SCL's Bicentennial - one of the best, and to my knowledge the first. Andy |
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Post by el3637 on Jul 15, 2012 23:29:58 GMT -8
Guys, please stop citing eBay as a interest meter. It doesn't work. All it takes is for two people to want a model, and two people are just not statistically relevant. For the most part this is true. Popularity and price of an item on ebay is not indicative of the potential sales of a re-run. One notable exception: Walthers needs to make more Santa Fe plated Pine sleepers. They didn't make enough on the first run and they now command insane ebay prices on the rare times they show up. I know they could make another run, and perhaps they will but maybe not in the Super Chief packaging. I don't care about the packaging, I just need the cars to fill out the train - I only managed to score one. Another loco that is basically Unobtainium on ebay or anywhere is the P2K Southern GP30. I wound up with 4 of them and was tempted to sell the one duplicate number I had, but opted instead to renumber it and that one is now finished "B Plus" fleet, the other three just need to get their window glass and put back together - all have decoders and light bulbs, and extra detailing beyond what I normally do for B-fleeters but hey, I have to show some love for the GP30. Walthers has stated already they don't intend to re-run the high nose GP30s in either version. The N&W's seemed to linger a while, of course they did them in three different paint schemes. The Southerns, only in as-delivered. Have no idea the production number, either the demand for the N&W's was far less than they anticipated or they just made a whole lot more of them. Anyway, if a few years down the road Walthers were to run more Southern GP30s, I can't say I'd buy any. Four is about all need, along with all the other Southern B-fleet stuff I have. The first run was very well done, and even better with the Cannon fans, Plano shrouds and other goodies. I need to post some pics when the quartet is finished, and I do need to get them off the bench so I can knuckle down on my next Superfleet loco, which looks like it's going to be that SD9 to run with my N&W Bicen... Andy |
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Post by nw611 on Jul 15, 2012 23:46:25 GMT -8
Hi Paul. Athearn made CF7s in Carolina & Northwestern, Florida Midland, Florida Central and Chattooga & Chickamauga. Atlas made high hood GP38s in Wiregrass Central. All Southeastern short lines. Ciao. Raffaele
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Post by curtmc on Jul 16, 2012 15:29:57 GMT -8
And all 4 of those Athearn CF7s and the Wiregrass GP38 I saw at deep discount months after production - some below half retail... When they get that cheap you know they didn't sell well.
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