New layout, I chose Peco for turnouts

[brotherlove]

I am converting my layout space from O scale to HO scale. I had hand laid code 125 track on my O scale layout. It is all gone now. I am going back with code 83 HO track. I have decided to use Peco electro-frog turnouts. I had considered Atlas super code 83 switches but Peco won out. I had powered frogs on my O scale layout and wanted that feature in HO too. I know I could power the Atlas frogs too but I kinda like the Peco better. I ordered one of each and gave them the once over. The downside is the cost but my granddaddy used to tell me, "you get what you pay for."

I will be back later with track plan.

MB

[calzephyr]

Jan 11, 2015 15:18:39 GMT -8 brotherlove said:

I am converting my layout space from O scale to HO scale. I had hand laid code 125 track on my O scale layout. It is all gone now. I am going back with code 83 HO track. I have decided to use Peco electro-frog turnouts. I had considered Atlas super code 83 switches but Peco won out. I had powered frogs on my O scale layout and wanted that feature in HO too. I know I could power the Atlas frogs too but I kinda like the Peco better. I ordered one of each and gave them the once over. The downside is the cost but my granddaddy used to tell me, "you get what you pay for."

I will be back later with track plan.

MB

How about some pictures of the O scale layout prior to the teardown to see how this one will fit into the new scale?
Larry

[valenciajim]

You will be very happy with the Peco turnouts.

[rockisland652]

Their 90 degree code 83 diamonds are amazing.

[wmcbride]

Jan 11, 2015 15:18:39 GMT -8 brotherlove said:

I am converting my layout space from O scale to HO scale. I had hand laid code 125 track on my O scale layout. It is all gone now. I am going back with code 83 HO track. I have decided to use Peco electro-frog turnouts. I had considered Atlas super code 83 switches but Peco won out. I had powered frogs on my O scale layout and wanted that feature in HO too. I know I could power the Atlas frogs too but I kinda like the Peco better. I ordered one of each and gave them the once over. The downside is the cost but my granddaddy used to tell me, "you get what you pay for."

I will be back later with track plan.

MB

Malcolm,

The Peco code 83 switches are really nice. No problems in the frog area with wheel dip like the Atlas turnouts and they are straight aswell (unlike most of the Atlas code 83 turnouts I have owned or looked at.

Bill McBride

[riogrande]

Peco code 100 is significantly less expensive but if it this matters, it is British style track with the tie clips rather than spikes, and of course won't have the finer appearance that smaller codes have. Code 83 is finer but considerably more expensive - but if money is no object, go for it. The turnouts are pricey compared to many other options but quite good. The code 83 is also American style track too and has only been out on the market for about 15 years.

[WP 257]

I had very good luck with Peco turnouts in the past. If they were compatible with the Kato Unitrack, I would have used them again. My present layout is all Kato Unitrack, and the Kato manual turnouts are not nearly as nice as the Peco manual turnouts (I didn't want to bother with under-table switch machines, and trying to mount them to foam insulation sheet, etc). Once the scenery was going in, and especially in any location that the scenic cement and water got a little too close to the turnouts, the Kato turnouts suffered from voltage drops after some time in service.

Eventually I altered the track plan and removed most of the Kato turnouts in order to eliminate the voltage drops--which worked quite well. So now, those engines that are more sensitive to any kind of a voltage drop have no issues on my layout, but my remaining plan is quite simple (though suitable for railfanning my own trains).

I think you will be quite happy with the Peco turnouts. You do get what you pay for.

[atsfan]

Overtime I have converted over to Peco.
They are bomb proof.

[IHB97]

Peco is spectacular, and their frogs are actually in gauge! Our club is switching to Peco as we redo 30 year old track work, and I use their turnouts on my HOn3. The old proverb that you get what you pay for is true. Atlas is cheaper, and unfortunately it shows. The QC on Atlas has seemingly gone south, with warped turnouts, point rails that just fall off the turnout, and of course out of gauge frogs. You'll be happy with your decision to stick to Peco.

It's a shame Atlas track has become what it is. It was the staple of my teenage years of modeling. Perhaps they will improve the line over time.

[valenciajim]

I started using Peco turnouts 20 years ago and they are great. I have had zero problems with them.

[riogrande]

Since I last replied to this topic, I have moved and torn down my last layout. I am switching to Peco as well for the next layout.

[12bridge]

The last layout, I did Hand Laid Track - Which, works well and I really enjoyed...but it is amazingly time consuming.

The new one I started out with Micro Engineering, and I do like them, but they need a fair bit of tune-up to get to work right.

Then I helped a friend build his switching layout using Peco's...and I am 110% sold. So much smoother, and no issues right out of the gate. I will continue to use the ME yard ladder system (which is brilliant!) where needed, but everything else will be Peco's with ME flex track from now on.

The new Walthers stuff coming soon may be decent as well, but we shall see.

[csx3305]

Bears pointing out that the insulator gaps on the Peco turnouts are close enough to the frog that code .110 wheelsets can bridge the gap on the adjacent rail and cause a short, occasionally tripping a booster breaker. Looks like they repeated this flaw on the otherwise magnificent US83 line, last I checked. That was my main reason for sticking with other brands.

[el3672]

Yea I'm all set on Peco's HO americano style switch's on my newly started layout, along with some
custom wanted/needed fast track #10 high speed cross overs. Anyone who can provide and prepare a fast track
order please send me a PM.
Thx/Alex

[riogrande]

May 28, 2019 17:41:24 GMT -8 csx3305 said:

Bears pointing out that the insulator gaps on the Peco turnouts are close enough to the frog that code .110 wheelsets can bridge the gap on the adjacent rail and cause a short, occasionally tripping a booster breaker.

You are referring to the insulfrog Pecos it sounds like.



Some have reported they never have any issues with shorting on them ever, at least that is what they say and using standard .110 wheel sets. They comment that it is usually wider tread wheels that have a better likelihood of shorting.

Those that do have the shorting issue say they paint black paint over the area which solves the problem, at least until the paint eventually wears off:





In my case, I'm going electrofrog, so the shorting problem is moot. They do require insulating the frog rails and then electrifying them with frog juicers or similar product.



Reportedly Peco is planning on eventually replacing their two product line insulfrog/electrofrog with a single uni-frog line. They already offer uni-frog on a few of their turnouts. I've read on British forums that fans of the electrofrog are upset by Pecos decision to stop offering them, but for the present, the main turnouts in UK code 100 and North American code 83 remain available in both insulfrog and electrofrog.



Here is a comparison photo of some of the brands I had on-hand, although I've since sold off all my code 100 Atlas and Shinohara.



Shinohara probably are a bit more realistic in appearance due to them using stock rail for the points, but I'm planning mostly Peco for the next layout. Code 100 in staging and code 83 on the rest of the layout. The Peco code 100 in the above photo is an insulfrog - I had a couple of them I bought second hand some years back, but all the rest I've been buying recently are electrofrog.

Looks like they repeated this flaw on the otherwise magnificent US83 line, last I checked.
That was my main reason for sticking with other brands.

Only the insulfrog version has that issue. What other brands don't have flaws? Some have complained just as much that Shinohara have out-of-gauge issues. Atlas are often not straight. Microengineering are said to need tweaking.

Apparently that leaves Peco electrofrog near the top.

[csx3305]

I like the point rails on the Walthers Code 83 better, too. Heavier built and more realistic profile. Note that the photo above shows the older non-DCC compliant Walthers turnouts.


The Micro Engineering turnouts do not meet NMRA spec on point clearance. It is a lesser, more prototypical travel distance than other brands. If you have an out-of-gauge wheelset, it will find the opposite point rail very quickly. I have fixed this issue in the past by making a new PC board throwbar, with NMRA spec.


And RP25 wheels WILL occasionally short out on a Peco Insulfrog. Experience talking here.

[riogrande]

I agree - Watlhers, using the stock rail, look better. The Atlas and Peco used formed point rails instead.

Yes, the Walther's turnouts in my photo above are the old DC version, as seen by the solid metal point bars and no insulated frog. I've sold off nearly all of my old Walthers and Shinohara DC turnouts since that photo because I don't have the time or desire to do surgery on them all. I found a couple of Walthers DCC friendly #8 curved turnouts and bought them a few months ago to replace the DC versions I sold. I've noticed on Ebay the DCC curved #8's have since dried up and hard to find.

Yeah, I guess it depends on who you talk to regarding shorting insulfrog turnouts. I don't have enough experience but some have said they have had no problems at all. Others yes.

I notice there is guy who goes by the forum name Onewolf in MR forums who is building an elaborate multi-deck (mushroom?) layout and he is going all code 83 Peco insulfrog. Worth a look if you haven't seen his construction topic even if the choice of turnouts has possible issues - it is quite a layout he is building and interesting to watch the progress:

cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/244850.aspx

Judging by some of the issues, it seems like the Peco electrofrog (appearance of points not with standing) would be a good choice.

[Paul Cutler III]

FWIW, the Walthers older non-DCC #8 switches don't need any modification for DCC. My club has been using DCC and Walthers #8 non-DCC switches for over 17 years and we've never had a problem with them. And we run everything from Plymouth switchers to brass 4-12-2's.

The reason is that the Walthers point gap is large enough and the #8 frog angle is low enough that the back of a wheel just can't touch the open point rail, and thus no short.

Walthers #6 and sharper non-DCC switches are a problem and should be isolated or not used with DCC. But #8's? No problems with DCC.

Also, the Walthers #6 scissor crossover? That shorts out across the frogs with RP-25 wheel widths (Code 110 wheels). On mine, it would short constantly until the carbon built up around the frog, and then it was fine. I just made sure I didn't clean the rail there. It was better than paint because paint wears off. The carbon blackening just stayed put.

[riogrande]

Re: #8 frog DC Walthers, well, I sold all of mine so it's moot.

I do have some Shinohara #8 curved I may use one or two of and if they will work on DCC without mods, then thats good.

[stottman]

The Peco switches might seem like they are more expensive at first; But when you consider that because of their spring loaded function, you can get away without any sort of switch machine, Caboose throw, etc, it actually balances out. 

[trainguy99]

The Peco turnouts I've used have been quite reliable but as several people have mentioned wheel treads can short on an Insulfrog, especially if the wheelset is a little out of gauge. You can paint the frogs or use clear nail polish on them. Atlas code 83 turnouts have been very disappointing. Walthers/Shinohara code 83 turnouts have worked well but are out of production. According to the Walthers site, their upcoming turnouts will have rails that are one piece from point to frog. I'm curious to see those.

[riogrande]

Remember if you go with electrofrog Peco, then the you won't have that shorting problem.

Interestingly, the uni-frog design which will reportedly replace the electro and insul frog turnout line, will have a similar design as the insulfrog and appears to have the same potential for shorting on out of gauge or wide tread wheels. That is another reason why I am trying to stock up on the electrofrog turnouts while they are still available. Compare the photos below of Uni vs. Insul frogs. It looks like Peco is simply replacing the plastic frog tip with a metal frog tip, which you can energize. Yet the section where shorts may be a problem remains.




trainguy99, what is it you didn't like about the Atlas code 83?

[nsc39d8]

I am one that has switched from Atlas turnouts and started using Micro Engineering and Peco. I have a mix of all the above mentioned turnouts: hand built, Atlas(C100 and 83), ME, Walthers, Shinohara and Peco.
I use the Peco streamline C83 insulfrogs and have not had a shorting problem. My rolling stock includes all most every manufacturer back to Tyco and AHM, these cars now run on tuned truck with the first P2K metal wheels. I have unto 50 some locos all DCC and most with sound. I started using the ME and Peco because of the sprung points. I gave up on the appearance of Caboose ground throws and went with Fast Tracks Bullfrog switch controllers which include a micro switch to control frog polarity.

In the end, even with my mix of turnouts and track I do not experience the shorts others have mentioned. IMHO, I think alot of people overwire their track circuit for DCC when DC and DCC wiring should work the same.

[brakie]

On my last two ISLs I used Peco. I'm using the Peco switches on my new ISL. I manage to recycle those Peco switches.

[riogrande]

May 30, 2019 4:15:02 GMT -8 nsc39d8 said:

nd went with Fast Tracks Bullfrog switch controllers which include a micro switch to control frog polarity.

Since I am planning to use Peco electrofrog turnouts, the frog end will have to be insulated for polarity, but still need to be powered with correct polarity. I'd like to know more about the micro switch polarity control - I've seen others mention it as well. They report it is very cheap to implement.

Can you expand on the micro switches, what is needed (where to buy at economical prices) and how they work and are wired?

[Paul Cutler III]

James,
DC and DCC are not the same beast, which is why one has to have "DCC Friendly" switches (or ones with large enough point gaps or somewhat frequent applications of nail polish or paint). With DC, one can "power through" a short as long as the circuit breaker doesn't trip. I've done it many times in the old DC days; you'd go through an open switch and there'd be a little blue spark or two from the opposing point, but the engine would keep going and the momentary short wouldn't stop the train or the power because it was such a quick, minor short.

With DCC, the electronics are much more sensitive to damage from a short, and therefore have circuit breakers that trip within 1/4 of a second. Any minor little short, so matter how slight, will trip the DCC breaker and the power is shut down.

[12bridge]

Bull frogs are nice, and I am big fan of Tim's products, but for the same cost you can get a Blue Point, which is A) assembled, B) has more adjustability (which is KEY) and options, C) is more reboust, as well has having a built in switch for wiring frogs.

[grahamline]

I see no mention of the revised Walthers line to become available this summer (they say). Has anyone had a chance to preview the Shinohara replacements?

[12bridge]

May 30, 2019 8:19:06 GMT -8 grahamline said:

I see no mention of the revised Walthers line to become available this summer (they say). Has anyone had a chance to preview the Shinohara replacements?

I mentioned those in one of my previous posts.   At this point it is wait and see, but if they are what they say they are,  they have real potential.  

[riogrande]

It doesn't look like Walthers new revised line of turnouts will be available this summer. On their website they show a series of #4, #5 and #6 turnouts and list them: 28-Oct-2019