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Post by antoniofp45 on Jan 18, 2015 6:52:08 GMT -8
Hello guys,
Perhaps old news to some, but I just learned that TCS will be making diesel horn sounds available in their "WOWSound" series decoders. Currently they're in the BETA Testing stage.
Although listening to sounds online poses limitations, I like what I've heard! I especially enjoyed the horn "quilling" feature which, to me, adds an enjoyable depth of realism to the melodic sound.
Below are the YouTube clips. Listen carefully and state your feedback/critiques. The K3H and K5LA samples on the first clip are really nice! On the 2nd clip the narrator explains which buttons to press for the different horn effects.
(Oh, and to our anti-sound friends a respectful standard "Yes; I know that small scale sound will not equal the 'Ooomph' low frequency response of the 1:1 world." comment )
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Post by Amboy Secondary on Jan 18, 2015 7:22:46 GMT -8
Thanks Antonio, I have a few E units that are candidates for the Diesel sound decoder, as well as a Bachmann K4 that's a candidate for the Steam WOW, as soon as I get some other things cleared up.
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Post by bdhicks on Jan 18, 2015 9:17:37 GMT -8
A few months back TCS was doing a hobby shop tour with demos of their steam and prerelease diesel decoders. Other than the sheer variety of sounds they can fit in the decoder, the most impressive thing was that if you had the back EMF enabled it would notch up the prime mover sound automatically when the load increases (such as going up a grade).
I also tried to talk them into recording some Caterpillar prime mover sounds, but it's hard to say if that had any effect.
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Post by stevef45 on Jan 18, 2015 22:23:57 GMT -8
A few months back TCS was doing a hobby shop tour with demos of their steam and prerelease diesel decoders. Other than the sheer variety of sounds they can fit in the decoder, the most impressive thing was that if you had the back EMF enabled it would notch up the prime mover sound automatically when the load increases (such as going up a grade). I also tried to talk them into recording some Caterpillar prime mover sounds, but it's hard to say if that had any effect. I like that. Im curious to how TCS was able to get all the different types of prime mover sounds, horns, bells, etc into 1 universal decoder but other companies need a decoder for each particular sound. |
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Post by bdhicks on Jan 18, 2015 23:01:39 GMT -8
My understanding is that TCS is using flash chips similar to the stuff that goes into SD cards or a USB stick. What other manufacturers are doing I'm not sure, maybe they're using onboard microcontroller storage to save cost.
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Post by MONSTERRAILROAD on Jan 19, 2015 4:46:46 GMT -8
I will be sure to get detailed video of the new TCS from my perspective as a model railroader on Saturday or Sunday this weekend. I was impressed with the steam sound so I am guessing the diesel should be great! I have mostly TCS A4X, A6X and KAT24 decoders since I love that newer Keep Alive options on all of my engines. I will look to see if there is a quick way of adding a TCS sound decoder to the current decoders without having to change them out too. I will do my best this weekend.
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Post by calzephyr on Jan 19, 2015 8:18:49 GMT -8
Hello guys, Perhaps old news to some, but I just learned that TCS will be making diesel horn sounds available in their "WOWSound" series decoders. Currently they're in the BETA Testing stage. Although listening to sounds online poses limitations, I like what I've heard! I especially enjoyed the horn "quilling" feature which, to me, adds an enjoyable depth of realism to the melodic sound. Below are the YouTube clips. Listen carefully and state your feedback/critiques. The K3H and K5LA samples on the first clip are really nice! On the 2nd clip the narrator explains which buttons to press for the different horn effects. (Oh, and to our anti-sound friends a respectful standard "Yes; I know that small scale sound will not equal the 'Ooomph' low frequency response of the 1:1 world." comment )
Antonio The different horns do sound good. I like the fact that they are all available on the decoder and the examples are excellent. The youtube picks up the sound really well. Has anyone heard the decoders other than the youtube?? Thanks for the update. Larry |
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Post by antoniofp45 on Jan 19, 2015 9:01:20 GMT -8
Hey Al, thanks!  Looking forward to your video as, unlike me, you get straight to the point no holds barred. I wonder how the sound samples and motor control will compare to those of the Titan and ESU-LokSound. I'm not a DCC expert, but I've heard, over and over, that ESU-Loksound set the bar high for smooth DCC motor control. WJL126,I hear ya!  I have a fleet of 11 LifeLike P2K E-unit "Bricks" that are prime candidates for sound. Although the new Walthers P2Ks are more prototype-accurate, replacing my units is beyond my budget means, so I'm keeping and slowly upgrading each one since I'm settting funds aside for the Rapido FL9 and 8600 coaches. I'm looking forward to hearing Nathan M5 multi-chimers and Leslie A200 "honker" horns from my E-units. Larry,  I was cautioned by a friend a few years ago to keep in mind that some high and low frequency responses are lost when listening to DCC-Sound on YouTube, so I can only imagine that the sounds we're hearing on those YouTube clips will be even more impressive in person! I still remember that about 5 years ago there seemed to be a consensus among modelers on various forums that: QSI had the loudest, sharpest horns. Soundtraxx's Tsunami had the sharpest diesel prime mover sounds, and LokSound's motor control was top notch. A lot has changed in just a short time and it's good to see that, unlike MRC's initial venture into DCC-Sound, TCS is focused on delivering a high caliber product. Win-win for us. My only sticking point is that I hope that they include "Air Pop-off" sounds of varying time durations. I emailed the rep about that. 
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Post by lajrmdlr on Jan 19, 2015 12:27:06 GMT -8
Having heard the 3 main DCC sound systems (Soundtraxx, TCS & LokSound) at my LHS (RailMaster Hobbies) LokSound has them all beat by the quality of their sounds & the many features provided in their sound system.
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Post by 12bridge on Jan 19, 2015 15:33:36 GMT -8
Having heard the 3 main DCC sound systems (Soundtraxx, TCS & LokSound) at my LHS (RailMaster Hobbies) LokSound has them all beat by the quality of their sounds & the many features provided in their sound system. Agreed. I will stick to Loksound. I have heard the TCS decoders are a nightmare to try and program. |
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Post by antoniofp45 on Jan 19, 2015 18:58:28 GMT -8
12Bridge, interesting but...... isn't that a bit of a rush-to-judgment?  I'm a fan of LokSound myself. However, we don't even yet know what upgrades/improvements TCS has made so it would be fair to give this new TCS product a chance on the market. We all know that feedback will come in steadily once it hits our hobby dealers. Having heard the 3 main DCC sound systems (Soundtraxx, TCS & LokSound) at my LHS (RailMaster Hobbies) LokSound has them all beat by the quality of their sounds & the many features provided in their sound system. Agreed. I will stick to Loksound. I have heard the TCS decoders are a nightmare to try and program.
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Post by nebrzephyr on Jan 20, 2015 7:05:04 GMT -8
I have heard the TCS decoders are a nightmare to try and program. That's not true in my experience. Would you care to elaborate. Thanks. Bob EDIT: I should have mentioned "using DecoderPro". My apologies. Bob |
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Post by MONSTERRAILROAD on Jan 20, 2015 8:00:37 GMT -8
I have exclusively purchased TCS decoders for the past couple of years and I like them. All of the A4X and A6X decoders have resistors on the boards for less mess installing LEDs, they are a dollar cheaper than most other similar 4 & 6 function board decoders. They are easy to program too. I really like their Keep Alive capacitors the most! They are what makes their decoders flawless. They also have plug and play decoders with Keep Alive and a KA2 for $20 which comes to $51 for one non sound decoder board with keep alive. Certainly not cheap withadding the Keep Alive capacitors but I love them!!! Even Soundtraxx Tsunami decoders are available to have a $20 Stay Alive capacitor installed for their $100 sound decoders.
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Post by bdhicks on Jan 20, 2015 8:24:59 GMT -8
Programming the TCS WOWsound decoders is pretty different from any other decoder. It has significantly more CVs than the DCC standard has address space for, so there's a lot of complex stuff if you try to program it by hand, and JMRI at least used to have problems with it although they've been working on it. But, because it is so hard to program manually it has the audio assist mode that works kind of like one of those phone menus you get when you call a big company.
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Post by MONSTERRAILROAD on Jan 20, 2015 9:25:28 GMT -8
Programming the TCS WOWsound decoders is pretty different from any other decoder. It has significantly more CVs than the DCC standard has address space for, so there's a lot of complex stuff if you try to program it by hand, and JMRI at least used to have problems with it although they've been working on it. But, because it is so hard to program manually it has the audio assist mode that works kind of like one of those phone menus you get when you call a big company. Oh yeah! I have that on video from last years show! I remember that! That could really get annoying as you say. It is a lady speaking slowly about the name of each sound or program and if there is 5 options you have to wait for her to say all 5 if you want to choose the last option. Like you said, it is like those big business companies we call and try screaming into the phone "Customer Service Rep!!!!!" but it still goes thru all of the prompts! Annoying! LOL Here is the video |
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Post by calzephyr on Jan 20, 2015 11:08:38 GMT -8
Programming the TCS WOWsound decoders is pretty different from any other decoder. It has significantly more CVs than the DCC standard has address space for, so there's a lot of complex stuff if you try to program it by hand, and JMRI at least used to have problems with it although they've been working on it. But, because it is so hard to program manually it has the audio assist mode that works kind of like one of those phone menus you get when you call a big company. Oh yeah! I have that on video from last years show! I remember that! That could really get annoying as you say. It is a lady speaking slowly about the name of each sound or program and if there is 5 options you have to wait for her to say all 5 if you want to choose the last option. Like you said, it is like those big business companies we call and try screaming into the phone "Customer Service Rep!!!!!" but it still goes thru all of the prompts! Annoying! LOL Here is the video AL There is a lot of WOW, WOW, Wow going on in your video!!!! It does sound good and I am going to look into testing one of the WOW units. Larry |
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Post by MONSTERRAILROAD on Jan 20, 2015 15:41:36 GMT -8
well Larry it was surely impressing. I was truly impressed with what was there. I must admit that I did not have to play with any of the controls or change any of the CV's so I did not know of any "Hard dealings" with the functions that was described by some people. But it sure did sound great!
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Post by antoniofp45 on Jan 24, 2015 20:45:14 GMT -8
Al,Thanks for posting your video from last year. Neat how you have an easy going rapport with the reps. Although the female voice that describes each sound scheme may be annoying to some, there's probably some modelers that will appreciate it. A buddy of mine is a visual & auditory learner but is pushing ahead with converting to DCC-sound. I'm very sure that he will like and appreciate the vocal descriptions. He just purchased an NCE control system and is looking forward to having fun with it. I'm just guessing but I think that TCS's owners are keeping "non-techno-savvy" modelers in mind as the products are updated. --------------------- On another note......I'm still wondering about the "Air Let Off" (air popoff) sounds. I know I nitpick this feature on several DCC manufacturers, but that's due to my having heard those types of sounds often in years past. I hope that "pop-offs" with different time durations will be available. (2 to 5 seconds) The short 1-second burst on Soundtraxx's Tsunami is realistic for an expello-type valve in new or good working condition. As air systems components age and not regularly serviced, cleaned or rebuilt, the "pop-off" duration gets longer and longer! We all know that some railroads would not change or rebuild certain mechanical components until they quit working. When it comes to the 1960s-70s, the term "Deferred Maintenance" was often standard practice on some roads, lol! For those of you that have Loksound ESU sound schemes, listen to the Baldwin switcher air-let off scheme. It sounds very husky, worn, and well pronounced. Carl of "DCC Geek" uploaded it to my LokSound equipped Genesis SCL SD45-2. I enjoy showing that locomotive off.
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Jan 25, 2015 8:39:31 GMT -8
I just received my first Loksound unit, a Bowser F unit A chassis. I put a Stewart F-3 body on it. Right out of the box I lowered the overall volume, selected a different horn and turned the bell way down. I put it on the track and was quite impressed with it's performance. There is very little I would change in the future except for experimentation. I like the slight delay before starting to move as the prime mover revs slightly. My one Tsunami, also in an F-3, has never worked to my satisfaction with sound values staying in sync with the throttle.
Watching the WOW video I was most impressed with the steam series by the fellow in Australia that put one into a large articulated steamer and set a small motor to swing the bell in sync with the ringing.
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Post by jregier80 on Jan 25, 2015 11:15:28 GMT -8
well Larry it was surely impressing. I was truly impressed with what was there. I must admit that I did not have to play with any of the controls or change any of the CV's so I did not know of any "Hard dealings" with the functions that was described by some people. But it sure did sound great! The controls are really not that bad. I mean, yeah, there's a menu for sound setup, but how often does one really need to program the sounds? The sound quality is amazing, and the variety lets one set up just about any combination desired. And that keep alive is gold. My major question concerning the diesel version--and I'm guessing the demo at Amhearst will not yield much information for this--is how nicely the decoder will play with Tsunami and Loksound in consisting. Anyway. Looking forward to your review. |
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Post by sd80mac on Jan 25, 2015 11:25:40 GMT -8
Not very impressed with the Leslie horn recordings (or the selection). They did a nice job on the Nathans, though. The EMD prime mover sounds are OK but not as good as Tsunami or ESU, IMO. Wish there was some manufacturer out there who could get all three (horn, bell, engine) right!
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Post by bnsf971 on Jan 25, 2015 13:26:59 GMT -8
My one Tsunami, also in an F-3, has never worked to my satisfaction with sound values staying in sync with the throttle. Karl, if your DCC system allows reading back of values, put your Tsunami-equipped unit on the programming track, and read back and write down the values for cv's 116, 209, 210, and 212. Then write the following values for them: CV116=71 CV209=50 CV210=1 CV212=25 then place the engine on the main, and adjust CV2 until it just barely starts to move at speed step 1 or 2. I usually set CV3 and CV4 to some large value, like 100. You may be pleasantly surprised. If not, you can always set those CVs back to the values they originally had. |
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Post by Mark R. on Jan 25, 2015 14:46:25 GMT -8
TCS cheats in using an external speaker in a large enclosure to demonstrate their sound. Let's hear what it actually sounds like with a speaker in the engine ....
Mark.
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Post by antoniofp45 on Jan 25, 2015 15:26:23 GMT -8
Mark, How is TCS cheating? I'm looking at the video and don't see any other speakers, just a modern HO sound equipped unit. TCS cheats in using an external speaker in a large enclosure to demonstrate their sound. Let's hear what it actually sounds like with a speaker in the engine .... Mark. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- We're listening to this on YouTube. I think a realistic test would be to listen to one, up close and personal. Since this is just the BETA Stage, I hope that more horns will be available as there are a number of horns that should be included. For prime movers, I'd like to hear what the EMD 645 E3 (turbo) sounds like. Not very impressed with the Leslie horn recordings (or the selection). They did a nice job on the Nathans, though. The EMD prime mover sounds are OK but not as good as Tsunami or ESU, IMO. Wish there was some manufacturer out there who could get all three (horn, bell, engine) right! |
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Jan 25, 2015 18:38:56 GMT -8
My one Tsunami, also in an F-3, has never worked to my satisfaction with sound values staying in sync with the throttle. Karl, if your DCC system allows reading back of values, put your Tsunami-equipped unit on the programming track, and read back and write down the values for cv's 116, 209, 210, and 212. Then write the following values for them: CV116=71 CV209=50 CV210=1 CV212=25 then place the engine on the main, and adjust CV2 until it just barely starts to move at speed step 1 or 2. I usually set CV3 and CV4 to some large value, like 100. You may be pleasantly surprised. If not, you can always set those CVs back to the values they originally had. I'll give this post a copy and paste so that when I unpack my loco fleet after my layout rebuild I'll give that a try. I had someone else give me similar suggestions once that didn't pan out. My NCE doesn't seem to read out CVs unless during the same programing session in which there were set. Your input is appreciated. |
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Post by Mark R. on Jan 25, 2015 20:02:17 GMT -8
Mark, How is TCS cheating? I'm looking at the video and don't see any other speakers, just a modern HO sound equipped unit. TCS cheats in using an external speaker in a large enclosure to demonstrate their sound. Let's hear what it actually sounds like with a speaker in the engine .... Mark. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Maybe they changed it up for this show - last show I saw them at, they had a larger (4 inch ?) speaker in an enclosure off to the side that the decoder was being fed through. There appears to be a box off to the right side in this video that you just get a glimpse of, but I can't say for certain. Anyone there confirm or deny this ? Mark. |
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Post by canrailfan on Jan 26, 2015 7:28:17 GMT -8
TCS's demonstration of the WOW diesel decoder at Springfield used a large (1 1/2" x 3" approx.) speaker set into the side of a boxcar behind the locomotive. They may have done this because of the problems in demonstrating the sounds in the high ambient noise environment at the show. Even with this speaker set-up, it was hard to hear the sounds very well.
They seem very much focused on the sound dynamics under different operating conditions such as hills, coasting, etc. I find the horn sounds remind me of a time I experimented using an electronic keyboard to play the chords of the different horns. (The old Extra 2200 South once did a two part article on horns complete with all the chords.) The TCS horn sounds are almost too 'clean' and I was left wondering if they are recordings of actual horns or created electronically.
TCS decoder compatibility with other brands may be a concern. I asked about the compatibility issue with their implementation of the 21 pin decoder connector (aux3, aux4 outputs) and was left with the sense that operating compatibility is not high on their list of requirements for their decoders. Compatibility with NMRA DCC standards, yes, compatibility with other brands, not that much.
I'm going to have to take a wait-and-see attitude until their WOW diesel decoders are actually on the market. Only then will operating compatibility questions be answered.
David
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Post by NS4122 on Jan 26, 2015 8:52:55 GMT -8
I'm going to have to take a wait-and-see attitude until their WOW diesel decoders are actually on the market. Only then will operating compatibility questions be answered. David They are available for sale now. Several vendors at the Springfield show had them for sale. |
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Post by jregier80 on Jan 26, 2015 9:02:41 GMT -8
I've been well impressed with the steam decoder I've installed. Of course, I can fit a considerably larger speaker in a tender than I can in a diesel. It will be interesting to see the sound compared with Tsunami and Loksound with the same speakers.
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Post by lajrmdlr on Jan 27, 2015 7:09:02 GMT -8
Have said that LokSound has the best sound but even at the demo at my LHS, they didn't use a RailMaster Hobbies speaker. Funny thing is you could "hear" the poor quality of the speaker they were using. LOL
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