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Post by cf7 on Feb 5, 2015 6:11:11 GMT -8
Yeah, I know...another thread about high costs...
I like to build and restore things and throughout the years I have purchased numerous NWSL items. Yesterday, I looked on their site to place an order for a few items and was shocked at the cost of the stuff I needed. Here are a few examples of what I was looking for:
- HO 28" wheelsets - $11.95 for 4 axles. No thanks, I'll get some from Kadee or Intermountain wheelsets and equip 3 cars for well under $10.
- HO replacement drive axles for a Walthers H-10-44. For a set of 4 axles, $39.95. I should have bought them last year when I saw them for $28! That is more than I paid for the whole loco and I only need one axle because of a cracked gear. Heck, the loco runs fine with only 3 powered axles. That'll do until I can find a parts loco!
- HO replacement P2k / Athearn axle gears, $39.95. You can buy a lot of Athearn replacement gears for that!
I realize that NWSL is the only place that you can get some odd ball stuff. I will have to think long and hard if its worth the money to do some of the things that I want to do.
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Feb 5, 2015 6:35:17 GMT -8
Yeah, I know...another thread about high costs... I like to build and restore things and throughout the years I have purchased numerous NWSL items. Yesterday, I looked on their site to place an order for a few items and was shocked at the cost of the stuff I needed. Here are a few examples of what I was looking for: - HO 28" wheelsets - $11.95 for 4 axles. No thanks, I'll get some from Kadee or Intermountain wheelsets and equip 3 cars for well under $10. - HO replacement drive axles for a Walthers H-10-44. For a set of 4 axles, $39.95. I should have bought them last year when I saw them for $28! That is more than I paid for the whole loco and I only need one axle because of a cracked gear. Heck, the loco runs fine with only 3 powered axles. That'll do until I can find a parts loco! - HO replacement P2k / Athearn axle gears, $39.95. You can buy a lot of Athearn replacement gears for that! I realize that NWSL is the only place that you can get some odd ball stuff. I will have to think long and hard if its worth the money to do some of the things that I want to do. I may be 100% off base on this train of thought, but NWSL is one of those small companies, who's product line is no longer that relevant in today's model railroad marketplace. Stores used to stock certain NWSL parts like they did with Detail Associates and Details West. The owner of my LHS, EngineHouse Services in Green Bay said to me a few years ago, that detail parts were only be used by him in his custom builds for EHS customers, myself and a few others. Many shops have cut back or dropped stocking detail parts and the mechanical parts of NWSL are no exception. There is very little profit in the selling of detail parts. Look at the state of Detail Associates, even Details West. Parts get sold out and are not re-run for a year or more and in some cases never again. There is just no demand. The cost of producing these products when demand for them is low is a big factor. Instead of running 100 or more, a company may only be able to justify doing 50. Producing product and then not being able to sell it in a reasonable amount of time is a recipe for bankruptcy. People don't tinker with models like they did 20 years ago. So much comes out of the box perfect, there is no reason to do any real tune up work. I bought some NWSL wheel sets for Athearn blue box DD35A and DD35 project. The Athearn DD40 has the old cast truck frames. It was difficult to get the NWSL wheels to replace the Athearn sintered iron wheels. Walthers had two packages.....that was it! So, I hit the net and picked up the rest I needed. Walthers also once sold out after my order, listed the wheels as the dreaded "unknown". In Walthers dictionary "unknown" is code for we may never be able to restock this item. |
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Post by mlehman on Feb 5, 2015 6:49:03 GMT -8
One thing that NWSL is about and that's quality. The wheelsets are all turned metal IIRC, which isn't cheap to do in the US. And that's another aspect to NWSL. Most of its stuff is made in the USA, which means that pricing can certainly be found that's cheaper. Better is another matter.
That said, I've also thought the NWSL drive wheels were a bit high, although probably for the reasons I just cited. But that's far from the only thing they do and lots of the rest is priced right and solves all sorts of problems factory parts have. Their service is quick and accurate. I do tend to feel I got my money's worth with my needs.
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Post by llxlocomotives on Feb 5, 2015 9:53:44 GMT -8
I agree that they make quality stuff. They have been very good at solving a problem or perceived problem. But, they have to keep moving to stay profitable. I think they are, I hear their name associated with battery operated engines. In the case of old stock, I think they will continue to make items, but they have to price it to make it worth while. With limited run items, the opportunity to help solve a problem is more limited. Gears for P2K 2-8-2's for instance. Because of other issues, it was a very limited run. Metal wheels are another place. The manufacturers have filled the void, so most new rolling stock has metal wheels, whether they need it or not. I say that, because the need for metal wheels has greatly dimished with the realization that a little graphite on the rails virtually eliminates the dirty track issue that the metal wheels were solving. What is left is the performance short fall for the metal wheels. Because of cost consiterations, metal wheel sets for cars weigh slightly less than a corresponding set of blue box wheels. So the weight advantage has been lost. My testing has shown that the polished surface engine wheels reduces the coeficient of friction significantly. This leads to a 20+ percent reduction in draw bar force and a reduction in speed at high power. You might be able to live with the reduction if it was the only way to ensure the track would stay clean and the engine would run at low speed. Other techniques allow you to have all of the above. The problem is a company like NWSL no longer has a product play here. I'm sure they realize it and are looking for ways to stay in business. Larry www.llxlocomotives.com |
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Post by atsfan on Feb 5, 2015 11:19:50 GMT -8
Yeah, I know...another thread about high costs... I like to build and restore things and throughout the years I have purchased numerous NWSL items. Yesterday, I looked on their site to place an order for a few items and was shocked at the cost of the stuff I needed. Here are a few examples of what I was looking for: - HO 28" wheelsets - $11.95 for 4 axles. No thanks, I'll get some from Kadee or Intermountain wheelsets and equip 3 cars for well under $10. - HO replacement drive axles for a Walthers H-10-44. For a set of 4 axles, $39.95. I should have bought them last year when I saw them for $28! That is more than I paid for the whole loco and I only need one axle because of a cracked gear. Heck, the loco runs fine with only 3 powered axles. That'll do until I can find a parts loco! - HO replacement P2k / Athearn axle gears, $39.95. You can buy a lot of Athearn replacement gears for that! I realize that NWSL is the only place that you can get some odd ball stuff. I will have to think long and hard if its worth the money to do some of the things that I want to do. Relentless prices increases are here to stay sadly. I see fewer and fewer stores in general, and very few of those that stock NWSL parts anymore. This aspect of the hobby will slowly continue to shrink and disappear. Most stuff today is disposable anyway. That goes far beyond model trains. |
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Post by Spikre on Feb 5, 2015 11:21:35 GMT -8
 Jimaloooey, if the outside bearing Athearn Axles arnt available,get the inside bearing version and slide the wheel over to where it needs to be. one shop here stopped carrying the outside bearing axles in the 90s,and would move the wheels for the purchaser if needed. a NWSL Puller works well as does a 2x4 with a 1/4" hole in it,just tap lightly with a small jewelers hammer. go for it !! as for Wheels,try to get the Nickel Silver if available,the brass used to have the small turning ridges on them and didn't pull as well. NWSL may have changed that later,havnt bought wheels since last century. back then the JayBee wheels pulled better. Spikre 
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Post by cf7 on Feb 6, 2015 6:01:58 GMT -8
Thanks for the replies everyone, but I can't help but think that this stuff is way overpriced. I'll only buy what is truly needed and look elsewhere for the rest.
I have long enjoyed using NWSL products and have purchased a lot of it over the years. But, there comes a time to wonder if it's worth it.
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Feb 6, 2015 9:05:44 GMT -8
I looked at the price of NWSL's Sensa-Press and its got an MSRP of just under $170. That is a lot of money especially if you also want to add the NWSL Riviter which is about $100. The NWSL Quarter for steam locomotive drivers is pricey now, when compared to what it used to sell for not that long ago. It used to be if you wanted to work on older brass models, you would automatically quarter the drivers. But, how many still buy old brass steam engines and do a lot of work? I personally know one person, others whom I knew that liked to buy brass steam and detail, re-power, replace gear boxes, quarter drivers, etc. have all passed away.
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Post by riogrande on Feb 6, 2015 12:55:06 GMT -8
"Has anyone bought anything from NWSL lately..."
I don't think I have bought any NWSL ever, let alone lately. Back in "the day" when blue box Diesels reigned, I recall NWSL were the wheel sets of choice to replace the sintered wheels that came with blue box Athearn diesels. At that time I was into N scale, although later on I started switching from N to HO, most of my better engines didn't have the sintered wheels and I didn't bother with the few that did have them. It seems now a days, most decent quality engines don't need wheel replacements. For rolling stock I use a combination of ExactRail, Intermountain and Proto 2000 replacement wheels.
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Feb 6, 2015 13:16:03 GMT -8
"Has anyone bought anything from NWSL lately..." I don't think I have bought any NWSL ever, let alone lately. Back in "the day" when blue box Diesels reigned, I recall NWSL were the wheel sets of choice to replace the sintered wheels that came with blue box Athearn diesels. At that time I was into N scale, although later on I started switching from N to HO, most of my better engines didn't have the sintered wheels and I didn't bother with the few that did have them. It seems now a days, most decent quality engines don't need wheel replacements. For rolling stock I use a combination of ExactRail, Intermountain and Proto 2000 replacement wheels. NWSL also was the go to for Sagami motors made to replace the old Athearn motor or the new "gold standard" Athearn motor. |
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Post by Spikre on Feb 6, 2015 13:30:20 GMT -8
 NWSL also was an Importer of Brass Locos and Cars. had an N&W 1900 Era Pacific for awhile,it ran well with its Open Frame Sagami Motor.decided it didn't fit in and sold it off eventually. NWSL also imported the best so far models of ERIE Stillwell cars.these were meant to run with a California Western Steam loco for "Skunk" service. but they will stay ERIE here for the forseeable future. NWSL also brought in Milwaukee "Little Joe" electrics about the same time that Alco Models did.heard the NWSL was the better runner,but only saw them in display cases. Spikre
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Post by valenciajim on Feb 7, 2015 2:04:43 GMT -8
To put things in perspective, I am in Argentina right now. Inflation is running at a 40% rate. The restaurant menus have the prices written in pencil. You get a deal if you pay with US dollars. So I am sure that the Argentine people would find this thread amusing.
By the way, there are very few trains in Argentina.
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Post by nebrzephyr on Feb 7, 2015 6:47:10 GMT -8
The owner of my LHS, EngineHouse Services in Green Bay said to me a few years ago, that detail parts were only be used by him in his custom builds for EHS customers, myself and a few others. Many shops have cut back or dropped stocking detail parts and the mechanical parts of NWSL are no exception. There is very little profit in the selling of detail parts. Look at the state of Detail Associates, even Details West. Parts get sold out and are not re-run for a year or more and in some cases never again. There is just no demand. Walthers also once sold out after my order, listed the wheels as the dreaded "unknown". In Walthers dictionary "unknown" is code for we may never be able to restock this item. Walthers over the last couple years has dropped many, many items I would call "detail parts" and/or "scratch builder parts". I'm sure it's a case of low to no demand not to mention difficulty in getting the parts from the source(s). Not to throw gas on the "hobby is drying", because I don't think it is, but it's hard to argue with the fact that this hobby is changing dramatically. Just my 2 cents. Bob |
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Post by atsfan on Feb 7, 2015 8:51:44 GMT -8
The owner of my LHS, EngineHouse Services in Green Bay said to me a few years ago, that detail parts were only be used by him in his custom builds for EHS customers, myself and a few others. Many shops have cut back or dropped stocking detail parts and the mechanical parts of NWSL are no exception. There is very little profit in the selling of detail parts. Look at the state of Detail Associates, even Details West. Parts get sold out and are not re-run for a year or more and in some cases never again. There is just no demand. Walthers also once sold out after my order, listed the wheels as the dreaded "unknown". In Walthers dictionary "unknown" is code for we may never be able to restock this item. Walthers over the last couple years has dropped many, many items I would call "detail parts" and/or "scratch builder parts". I'm sure it's a case of low to no demand not to mention difficulty in getting the parts from the source(s). Not to throw gas on the "hobby is drying", because I don't think it is, but it's hard to argue with the fact that this hobby is changing dramatically. Just my 2 cents. Bob The lack of small detail parts means the hobby is changing. Not dying. I always would look at the metal castings in small packing. Air compressor for a long gone SP steam engine. I wondered who was buying them. With ready to run people can spend time on other aspects if they wish. |
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Post by Spikre on Feb 7, 2015 16:55:01 GMT -8
?? V-Jim, are any of the Baldwin RF-615-E Cab units still running down there ? they were some of the last Baldwin Export units built about 54/55. just wondering ?? Spikre
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Post by valenciajim on Feb 10, 2015 6:06:16 GMT -8
I only saw one train of which I did not have a great view. It looked like it was being pulled by a couple of GP units. They were painted red and that was about all I saw from the bus. There are some commuter trains that look kind of old going through the Buenos Aires metro area.
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