New Walthers Freight Car??

[Spikre]

??
or a Golden Tye car built by Pickens ?
Walthers has totally muddied up their lines.
Proto 2000 should have stayed separate from the
former Walthers lines.
cant recall any Walthers cars that were equal to
the Proto 2000 line.
even the Flexi-Van cars weren't as completely detailed
as the Proto 2000 line,however they were nice cars.
Spikre

[edwardsutorik]

Lemme see. How many ribs on the end of Walthers Pickens 55202? And how many on the prototype?

Well, yes. It IS a box car. An external post car. And if you really like it, you oughta buy it.

I surely won't.


Ed

[Brakie]

Feb 16, 2015 19:06:42 GMT -8 edwardsutorik said:

Lemme see. How many ribs on the end of Walthers Pickens 55202? And how many on the prototype?

Well, yes. It IS a box car. An external post car. And if you really like it, you oughta buy it.

I surely won't.


Ed

I would like to add a Pickens boxcar to my collection of IPD boxcars since the Picken boxcars was widely seen.

However..

I shall pass on this offering not because its not 100% correct but,it doesn't past my acceptance approval because the color doesn't look right.

[riogrande]

I'm guessing from the conversation that there is no correct Pickens box car, but if there is one that is close, what would it be in HO?

[buffalobill]

Jim: The Branchline Berwick car now offered by Atlas is close. The details on the NRUC Picken's cars varied by lot, as some were built by Berwick, others werre assembled by Golden Tye, a NRUC subsidiary from Kits supplied by Berwick. For most of us, the former Branchline car is more than adequate.
Bill

[kentuckysouthernrwy]

Feb 12, 2015 9:17:58 GMT -8 riogrande said:

Feb 12, 2015 8:22:10 GMT -8 bis54 said:

I run on a club layout. Cars with details are only going to have those details knocked off.
I don't waste my money on cars like that.
I find it hard to believe that so many people really use cars with lots of details on them.

On a club layout fair enough - the conditions there are far rougher on models and far less controlled. Due to any number of factors, fragile details are likely to be victim to that operating environment.

For those who run on a home layout, it can be very different, where the owner-operator can have a great deal more control over how their models are used or handled.

It's not hard for me to believe that those people would greatly enjoy having and running detailed models on a home layout. As Rob rightly pointed out, those issues can be minimal with care - and it's certainly not a waste of money.

Your point is well taken, but, as I operate trains on an operations oriented layout I don't feel the compunction to spend the big $$ on the fancy cars. I am perfectly happy picking up a couple of second hand blue box cars, fine tuning their weight, wheel sets and couplers to run reliably. I do have a few premium cars in my inventory but neither budget or drive to use them exclusively.

What amazes me most is the use of any photographs from any source on the internet as a bench mark to correctness of a model.

I have learned not to let the 'experts' divert me from enjoying the hobby my way.

[curtmc]

riogrande said:

I'm guessing from the conversation that there is no correct Pickens box car, but if there is one that is close, what would it be in HO?

Pickens had Sieco boxcars and Athearn has done 4 numbers so far... So there are correct Pickens 50' boxcars of a different type available in HO.

[riogrande]

Thanks Curt and Bill. I'll have to keep a look out for the Athearn Sieco and Branchline Berwick cars. My to-do list has had picking up a few Branchline kit's on the list for a while so I'll start treasure hunting.

Karl, no one is suggesting you, or anyone else, has to spend big money on trains or fancy cars or is trying to compel fellow hobbyists to be exclusive. In fact, there are a lot of modest priced cars that are close matches (for those that prefer it) and for those for whom accuracy is unimportant, simply ignore accuracy discussions.

As far as photographs go, it seems they speak for themselves, regardless of the source, unlike data or information, which may or may not be reputable. Most would agree that photographic evidence is one of the primary tools modelers use for modeling engines or freight cars or what have you. Dates matter too of course, so some photo's dates may not be known.

The discussion on accuracy etc., for some modelers, is an important part of the hobby; for others, not so important. Because this topic is arguing the merits of a model is in no way implying that "correctness" should be forced on modelers who aren't interested. Everyone is free to enjoy the hobby in whatever way you please. Like the Nike add says, "just do it"!

Back on topic. So have we concluded the Walthers car is a different plate size than the Atlas Trainman and would be a decent match to some ACF cars?

[drolsen]

Feb 18, 2015 4:42:01 GMT -8 riogrande said:

Back on topic. So have we concluded the Walthers car is a different plate size than the Atlas Trainman and would be a decent match to some ACF cars?

Jim - Yes, they represent two different prototypes. The Walthers is modeled after the ACF Plate B 5090 cuft box car, and the Atlas Trainman is an ACF Plate C 5290/5300 cuft car:

ACF 5090 (Scott Borden photo from Fallen Flags) - note the thinner side sill under the door:


ACF 5300 (Joe Rogers photo from RR PIcture Archives) - note the deeper side sill:


Here are some detail shots I took of the two prototypes:

CSXT 130539 (ACF Plate B 5090)

CSXT 138334 (ACF Plate C 5300)

The Plate C 5300 is rather rare in CSX's fleet, but there are a couple thousand of the Plate B cars wearing CSX blue, with a few still in Railbox paint:

CSXT 141048 (ACF Plate B 5090)

This is the box car model that I need the most copies of, by far. Unfortunately, I'm disappointed in the Walthers version. The ends don't look right - I believe the raised end corrugations are too thin, as a friend pointed out, and should be same thickness as the gaps in between them. The model definitely rides too high, as someone pointed out earlier. I personally just think that with two existing models with molded details (Athearn and Bachmann), it was time for a quality model of this very common prototype, along the lines of the Atlas Plate B FMC 5077. A reliable source on another list reported that another manufacturer had planned to produce such a model, but with the Walthers announcement, that project is likely dead in the water. I think the discussion here shows that there's room for both levels of detail (and price) when it comes to such a prominent prototype, so I hope the other manufacturer will still go forward with their version.

Dave

[milgentrains]

Dave,

Thanks for the pictures of the 2 CSX boxcars. Other than the height I never knew what other differences there were between them.

[edwardsutorik]

I won't be buying the Walthers version, so the mystical manufacturer hasn't lost any sales here.



Ed

[lvrr325]

Is the Walthers car maybe the old Waffle-Side box car kit with new sides? That's the only old kit I can think of that comes close. LL never had anything like this.

And it does ride like a 4x4.

[Spikre]

the Walthers Waffle Box was a Pullman car with Pullman ends.
the Car Body was at least 12" to 18" too Narrow.
the door openings were handled badly also.
this does seem to be an all new car body similar to the Athearn
and Bachman "Railbox" cars,but with a CORRECT roof.
something Lacking on the Athearn and Bachman copy/clone of the
Athearn car.
Spikre

[riogrande]

Dave, thanks for the photo's and info!

[cvacr]

Feb 17, 2015 5:47:47 GMT -8 buffalobill said:

Jim: The Branchline Berwick car now offered by Atlas is close. The details on the NRUC Picken's cars varied by lot, as some were built by Berwick, others werre assembled by Golden Tye, a NRUC subsidiary from Kits supplied by Berwick. For most of us, the former Branchline car is more than adequate.
Bill

Yep, the PICK car pictured is a Berwick kit built by Golden Tye.

However....

The Branchline/Atlas car is a Plate C, while the PICK car pictured is a shorter Plate B, with the height probably half a foot lower. (You can see this in the top of the end, with less space above the top corrugation.) That would be an "interesting" conversion to lower the height of the car and cut away and replace the doors which are molded as part of the body.

The other major detail difference is the side sill, which is different on the Golden Tye kit-built cars vs. normal Berwicks. That could be modified on the model with some styrene and Archer rivet decals.