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Post by jlwii2000 on Feb 12, 2015 15:34:19 GMT -8
I was thoroughly impressed! Your thoughts? Any downsides to these decoders?
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Post by calzephyr on Feb 12, 2015 15:50:46 GMT -8
James
I purchased the steam version and the programming seems to be OK if it continues to work. I had to reset my decoder several times due to the process not working correctly for me and the unit stopped working correctly and would not cycle the whistle any longer even after I used every reset listed. The programming was a downside for me, but that might not be the case of others.
The good thing about the unit is the way it chuffs and some of the features were impressive. I decided not to install it since I found it to have the problem listed. The turbo generator is very nice and continues to be on like it should on a steam loco. Yes, the Keep Alive is wonderful and the unit would continue to have sound up to 20 seconds after power was removed. Nice feature.
I could send it back but have not at this time.
Larry
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Post by jlwii2000 on Feb 12, 2015 16:06:27 GMT -8
James I purchased the steam version and the programming seems to be OK if it continues to work. I had to reset my decoder several times due to the process not working correctly for me and the unit stopped working correctly and would not cycle the whistle any longer even after I used every reset listed. The programming was a downside for me, but that might not be the case of others. The good thing about the unit is the way it chuffs and some of the features were impressive. I decided not to install it since I found it to have the problem listed. The turbo generator is very nice and continues to be on like it should on a steam loco. Yes, the Keep Alive is wonderful and the unit would continue to have sound up to 20 seconds after power was removed. Nice feature. I could send it back but have not at this time. Larry Larry, It is a pain to take out a decoder and send it back so I understand where you're coming from. So far so good with this decoder, but it may never get the workout that it would on a club layout or heavy operator because I am building the layout and have other engines to run. But I will be testing it a bit more after reading your comments. -James |
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Post by thebessemerkid on Feb 12, 2015 16:34:05 GMT -8
Really well done review!
Hopefully increased competition in the sound market can bring prices down a bit.
Does their 710 include the 20-cylinder SD80MAC? If not, they need to record them before NS converts all theirs to 16-cylinder (not sure about csx units)
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Post by NS4122 on Feb 12, 2015 17:34:08 GMT -8
Sounds good, thanks for the review. Is the modern Electronic Bell one of the bell options?
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Post by jlwii2000 on Feb 12, 2015 18:36:22 GMT -8
Sounds good, thanks for the review. Is the modern Electronic Bell one of the bell options? Yep modern bell is one of the options. |
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Post by jlwii2000 on Feb 12, 2015 18:38:19 GMT -8
Really well done review! Hopefully increased competition in the sound market can bring prices down a bit. Does their 710 include the 20-cylinder SD80MAC? If not, they need to record them before NS converts all theirs to 16-cylinder (not sure about csx units) I'm not sure on this one. You can email them though. |
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Post by Mark R. on Feb 13, 2015 8:56:18 GMT -8
The sounds are great, but I'm not real sure on the functionality. Can't say that I would really care for having the horn on F2, F3 and F4 (even though all the options are pretty slick) when all other decoders have standardized on using just F2 for the horn - might confuse some new operators. Remapping is always an option of course. Repeated button pushing to activate different function levels (while very realistic) could also be rather taxing.
The windshield wipers and throttle clicking in manual notching are kind of gimmicky - you wouldn't hear those unless you were actually in the cab.
The braking feature is well done if you take the time to learn how to use it. Again, overly complex for new operators who may only run your engines once a month during an operating session. For an individual who mostly runs trains by themselves, and enjoy learning the complexities, I can see where they could really enjoy this decoder. Myself, I prefer to keep things a bit more simple ....
Mark.
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Feb 13, 2015 12:55:18 GMT -8
Sounds good on the video. I agree with Mark, lots of bells and whistles, literally and figuratively. Fun for a small operator but seems like a lot to try and keep straight if you were running the engine on a big layout ops session. I'd like to keep all the functions the same on the fleet, bell whistle/horn, headlight, brake. All said and done, good sound, good review. I'm not sure a real train jumps in speed when the dynamic brakes are cut off. The sounds of throttle notching and windshield wipers seem gimmicky. Sort of like BLI's cab/radio chatter.
Just a suggestion, James, it sounds like you were racing the clock at the end to cram a lot of information in faster than I could decipher, maybe some cue cards or a teleprompter would help. Superimposed text could use a little more dwell time to read information.
Well done.
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Post by jlwii2000 on Feb 13, 2015 16:22:57 GMT -8
Sounds good on the video. I agree with Mark, lots of bells and whistles, literally and figuratively. Fun for a small operator but seems like a lot to try and keep straight if you were running the engine on a big layout ops session. I'd like to keep all the functions the same on the fleet, bell whistle/horn, headlight, brake. All said and done, good sound, good review. I'm not sure a real train jumps in speed when the dynamic brakes are cut off. The sounds of throttle notching and windshield wipers seem gimmicky. Sort of like BLI's cab/radio chatter. Just a suggestion, James, it sounds like you were racing the clock at the end to cram a lot of information in faster than I could decipher, maybe some cue cards or a teleprompter would help. Superimposed text could use a little more dwell time to read information. Well done. You're right the end was a rush to finish. I was shooting for 15 minutes but I ended up going over and I didn't want it to turn into a really long review.
-James
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Post by gmpullman on Feb 14, 2015 6:21:56 GMT -8
I bought four of these from Tony's. I got one installed in a Genesis F-3 and when using the audio assist I notice the sound is breaking up almost as if the speaker wires are loose (they're not) I wonder if these are ones with bad "SD" chips as one of your YouTube commentators stated? I'll have to contact TCS next week and see what they have to say.
I find the clicking while using the manual notching to be extremely bothersome. It sounds like a rifle bolt action. The momentum is awkward to get used to. Using a DT402 I have to keep looking for the F7 button and by the time I find it and finally get the engine stopped I've already run through the switch, or rear-ended the caboose!
Several times now I have accidentally pressed f9 and changed the horn and/or bell. Then I have to cycle through the whole mess to get back to the one I want. Isn't there a way to "lock-in" the ones I want to keep? I'll never use 90% of the bells available.
Motor control is great. Without making any changes the engine glides slowly ahead on speed step one. The keep-alive, of course, is much appreciated and I'm glad to see this feature becoming a standard. The audio assist is a novel approach to programming but I am so much more comfortable with Decoder-Pro. I understand there is more progress toward WOW programming using Decoder-Pro.
I'm not ready to trash all my Loksound decoders just yet and I don't want to rush judgement on the WOW Diesel... I'll just need more time to get used to it. It almost seems like there should be a dedicated throttle geared toward the WOW with a prominent brake button, and programming buttons that are not easily confused with operating buttons.
I'll be interested to see what others have to say as these decoders get installed into more models.
Thanks for posting another helpful review, James!
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Post by jlwii2000 on Feb 14, 2015 6:54:29 GMT -8
I bought four of these from Tony's. I got one installed in a Genesis F-3 and when using the audio assist I notice the sound is breaking up almost as if the speaker wires are loose (they're not) I wonder if these are ones with bad "SD" chips as one of your YouTube commentators stated? I'll have to contact TCS next week and see what they have to say. I find the clicking while using the manual notching to be extremely bothersome. It sounds like a rifle bolt action. The momentum is awkward to get used to. Using a DT402 I have to keep looking for the F7 button and by the time I find it and finally get the engine stopped I've already run through the switch, or rear-ended the caboose! Several times now I have accidentally pressed f9 and changed the horn and/or bell. Then I have to cycle through the whole mess to get back to the one I want. Isn't there a way to "lock-in" the ones I want to keep? I'll never use 90% of the bells available. Motor control is great. Without making any changes the engine glides slowly ahead on speed step one. The keep-alive, of course, is much appreciated and I'm glad to see this feature becoming a standard. The audio assist is a novel approach to programming but I am so much more comfortable with Decoder-Pro. I understand there is more progress toward WOW programming using Decoder-Pro. I'm not ready to trash all my Loksound decoders just yet and I don't want to rush judgement on the WOW Diesel... I'll just need more time to get used to it. It almost seems like there should be a dedicated throttle geared toward the WOW with a prominent brake button, and programming buttons that are not easily confused with operating buttons. I'll be interested to see what others have to say as these decoders get installed into more models. Thanks for posting another helpful review, James! Yes I hear about that SD chip problem on versions sold at the Amherst show and that first week or so of sales. Basically, if you were one of the first ones to get the chip it was a problem and TCS exchanges it for free. I got mine after that initial rush so the issue was resolved. I am not ready to replace the fleet of locomotives to Wow Diesels either, nor could I afford to at 160 x $80 just in decoders. However, I have already pre ordered some DCC ready locomotives when I usually just pre order sound equipped. Anything that can take these decoders in my pre orders placed in the future will be mostly DCC ready and I'll install TCS wowdiesel or wowsteam into. The only exception is some items I buy for review with Tsunami and ESU. ESU is still very good in my opinion and overall we're still all used to no braking and low momentum so it will be some time to get used to these decoders. |
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Post by lajrmdlr on Feb 14, 2015 8:53:51 GMT -8
RailMaster Hobbies my LHS had demos by Soundtraxx, Tsunami & LokSound. To others & me at the demos LokSound won hands down because of the quality & types of different sounds. LokSound also had many mor features than the other two!.
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Post by Mark R. on Feb 14, 2015 9:47:44 GMT -8
RailMaster Hobbies my LHS had demos by Soundtraxx, Tsunami & LokSound. To others & me at the demos LokSound won hands down because of the quality & types of different sounds. LokSound also had many mor features than the other two!. Soundtraxx and Tsunami are one in the same.  Mark. |
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Post by lajrmdlr on Feb 14, 2015 9:50:39 GMT -8
Forgot the first one then. But it wasn't QSI & definitely not MRC!
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Post by NS4122 on Feb 14, 2015 10:26:49 GMT -8
Forgot the first one then. But it wasn't QSI & definitely not MRC! So did you hear TCS WOWsound or not? For the subject of this thread, if you can't remember what you heard, your declaration of Loksound as the better is irrelevant if you didn't actually hear the TCS. Given what was shown in this review, its hard to believe Loksound would have more features than the TCS. |
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Post by Mark R. on Feb 14, 2015 10:29:36 GMT -8
RailMaster Hobbies my LHS had demos by Soundtraxx, Tsunami & LokSound. To others & me at the demos LokSound won hands down because of the quality & types of different sounds. LokSound also had many mor features than the other two!. From what I can see on their site, they carry Soundtraxx, ESU and QSI .... don't see TCS mentioned. (?) Mark. |
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Post by lajrmdlr on Feb 15, 2015 9:00:12 GMT -8
RailMaster Hobbies my LHS had demos by Soundtraxx, Tsunami & LokSound. To others & me at the demos LokSound won hands down because of the quality & types of different sounds. LokSound also had many mor features than the other two!. From what I can see on their site, they carry Soundtraxx, ESU and QSI .... don't see TCS mentioned. (?) Mark. HEARD Soundtraxx, TCS WOW (diesel & steam) & LokSound at the 3 demos. To the others & me LokSound won hands down. And the line to buy the was very long after the LokSound demo compared to the others! |
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Post by antoniofp45 on Feb 15, 2015 10:41:11 GMT -8
James, very good job!
The horn quilling is my favorite feature here and, imho, is excellent and realistic. Would be very appropriate for 1st and 2nd generation diesels since those prototypes were equipped with either horn pull cords or vertical levers, not push buttons as on many modern units. Engineers could get musically creative when blowing those horns.
Definitely planning on purchasing a few of these TCS decoders, along with LokSound V4s. Makes me wonder what these decoders will sound like inside of HO cab units equipped with one or two "Hi-Bass" speakers!
Just my opinions but Soundtraxx is no longer on top of the food chain but it's good to know that they're working on getting back there again. LokSound ESU's owners listened and their V4 sound schemes and features are an impressive improvement over the V3 series. QSI didn't sit still either and their Titan (with the new sound schemes)is nothing to sneeze at (although I still dread their old prime mover schemes). TCS tosses its hat in the ring and the results, so far, seem to lean towards the high end of the quality scale. Hopefully these decoders will pass the durability test as well.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but from my understanding, TCS (non-sound) and LokSound ESU sound decoders both have outstanding motor control. I hope that TCS's sound decoders still have the same, excellent motor control and that "speed matching" TCS and LokSound equipped units will be easy to perform.
My take on all this is that it's win-win for us. I mentally sit back, enjoy the competition, and appreciate the progress that has been made with DCC sound.
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Post by Mark R. on Feb 15, 2015 14:37:06 GMT -8
I've had to speed match a few TCS and ESU decoders and my experience is that the ESU decoders are still finer controlled than TCS. I had to DE-tune the ESU decoders a bit to get them to match the best of TCS's ability.
Mark.
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Post by cgstever91 on Oct 31, 2015 0:07:03 GMT -8
I have a few of the first run of these along with one of the new ge/alco decoders along with a qsi and a esu decoder and i have to say that i like my wow sound locos the most the qsi won't run with anything else i own and the esu is a good decoder but as i run mostly single unit consists if i leave it in prototype mode i don't get the same notch all the time when switching cars or just running around the club layouts i find the speed control good and for those having a hard time speed matching try adjusting the motor trim cvs found that that worked the best. one of the only problems i have had with this decoder is that i dose tend to run hot in a few of my units not to much and the 21pin with the motherboard seems to run at what i feel is a much better temp. over all i like the decoder it has great features sound and motor control.
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