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Post by jamesbrodie67281 on Mar 22, 2015 22:10:49 GMT -8
Sirs and Gentlefolk,
Your tame Limey is info seeking again this time for a plausible mix of D/E locos being worked in multiple.
can an FT unit be coupled to a F# unit ?
Either way ie
FTA to F#B or F#A to FTB.
Our D/E locos had symbols painted on their nose ends like a blue star or red square or yellow triangle etc. and like symbols could multiple with like symbols otherwise they to work coupled together would need to work in tandem.
James Brodie......potential platform edge white line painter or bung replacer in the engineers oil pot.
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Post by Christian on Mar 22, 2015 23:56:24 GMT -8
Yes. Across brands there were occasional issues - Baldwin comes to mind - but by late fifties pretty much any diesel could mate with another. Of course, specific exceptions are what makes the hobby "fun."
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Post by mlehman on Mar 23, 2015 0:21:05 GMT -8
James,
You have to keep in mind the specific prototype on the FTs. Most FT A and B units came out of the factory linked by a semi-permanent drawbar, not couplers. A few (Santa Fe is what I'm remembering, but not sure that's correct at this late hour) did have couplers, instead of the drawbar, so they would be able to couple to the later F units.
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Post by Christian on Mar 23, 2015 2:20:53 GMT -8
James, You have to keep in mind the specific prototype on the FTs. Most FT A and B units came out of the factory linked by a semi-permanent drawbar, not couplers. A few (Santa Fe is what I'm remembering, but not sure that's correct at this late hour) did have couplers, instead of the drawbar, so they would be able to couple to the later F units. After WWII most, not all, were equipped with couplers regardless of road name. Certainly by mid fifties. Of course, exceptions are - well, I'm repeating my self. |
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Post by mlehman on Mar 23, 2015 8:10:26 GMT -8
Christian,
Yes, agreed. Just penciling in the potential exception, given James didn't specify prototype or year.
One feature that indicated a coupler was used for the A-B connection instead of a drawbar on the FTs was the presence of a fifth porthole to serve the hostler controls on B units with coupler at both ends, since there was the chance the B unit could be moved separately from the A unit. That's the way they came from the factory in most cases, but I vaguely recall there may have been exceptions to that rule, too. Certainly, once the couplers started replacing the drawbars, then that was no longer much help as a spotting feature.
I'm pretty sure they made the FT B in HO scale with and without the 5th porthole. I think James is in O, though, and I'm not familiar with the offerings there.
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hhr
New Member
Commercial Pilot
Posts: 34 
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Post by hhr on Mar 23, 2015 18:20:45 GMT -8
Yes. Across brands there were occasional issues - Baldwin comes to mind - but by late fifties pretty much any diesel could mate with another. Of course, specific exceptions are what makes the hobby "fun." Yes, Baldwins would only M/U with other Baldwins due to their pneumatic throttles, unless they had been repowered like the PRR's sharks, or the road switchers repowered by EMD for the Katy and C&NW for example. Also back in the era of the EMD "F" series locomotives, they could activate the dynamic brakes on trailing ALCO units, but ALCO's leading trailing EMD's couldn't activate the dynamic brakes on the EMD units. Those compatibility issues ended with the adoption of the standard 27 pin M/U cables and receptacles in the late 50's to early 60's. As an aside, Baldwin did offer electric throttles as an option on their units towards the end of the company's life, but I'm not sure if any railroads ordered units so equipped. |
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Post by jamesbrodie67281 on Mar 24, 2015 2:35:29 GMT -8
Thanks gents for the info, I did reply yesterday but pressed the wrong 'reply' mail button !
Yes I model 0 gauge and the era 1935ish to 1955 give or take some flexibility.
I don't know if there is an ERA list but I guess I would be about mid way a 3 maybe ?
James.
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Post by bnsf971 on Mar 24, 2015 2:56:28 GMT -8
A units of F units, E units, and the Alco counterparts were generally not placed in the middle of a lashup, because the noses lacked MU plugs. Later in their live, these were added so they could have more flexibility in operations, but in the 1950s those plugs were not common.
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Post by riogrande on Mar 24, 2015 3:58:44 GMT -8
A units of F units, E units, and the Alco counterparts were generally not placed in the middle of a lashup, because the noses lacked MU plugs. Later in their live, these were added so they could have more flexibility in operations, but in the 1950s those plugs were not common. Right - for example D&RGW added nose MU receptacles - on most of their F units starting in the early 1960's - the Rio Grande Zephyr F9A nose 5771 is an example of how most of the other F units were treated. Through out the 1960's it was common to see longer lashups of F units with F7A's nose to nose or nose to tail, mostly as helper consists but also leading. There are some very cool scenes of it in the Rio Grande Odyssey DVD. |
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Post by Spikre on Mar 24, 2015 8:56:08 GMT -8
 the Air Throttle seems to have been a Westinghouse "Innovation" used by Baldwin,F-M,and Lima on some models. from about 1947 to 1952 Baldwin was actually run by Westinghouse, so that was why Baldwin pushed the System. but after 4 or 5 units the System lagged,and was also affected by extremes in weather,mainly cold,and possibly High Altitudes. a few Baldwins did use GE Electrics and Traction Motors after 1955 and the Westinghouse Equipment was no longer available. Erie RR: did order Electric Throttles on its DRS-6-6-15s,DRS-4-4-15s and AS-16s.there are pics of them running with RS-3s,H-16-44s,GP7s,and other Road Switchers,but not Cab Units as they had 6L brake systems, which was actually a Yard Brake System,not a full Road Brake System. Erie had a very complicated M.U. Chart,and even some of the Road Switchers couldn't M.U.even the 1956 GP9s came with the 6L Brake System.in contrast all Lackawanna Cabs and Road Switchers could M.U. while it didn't happen often,Lackawanna FTs could M.U. with Train Masters.EL inherited the Erie Incapatability Issue,and lived with it until CR day. Spikre 
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hhr
New Member
Commercial Pilot
Posts: 34
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Post by hhr on Mar 24, 2015 19:17:36 GMT -8
An excellent point on the braking systems Spikre, I think in the old Model Railroader Diesel Cyclopedia, they have an excellent explanation of the vagaries of M/U-ing diesels in the 40's and 50's. Different M/U plugs, different braking options, all sorts of "fun" things that had to be taken in account.
And don't forget that some Alco and EMD power came set up with nose mounted M/U receptacles, like SP's PA-1's and PA-2's, which ran "elephant style" as needed even before the era of Lark Grey and Bloody Noses.
Mr Brodie's reference to the Multiple Working symbol system is both a simple way to ensure unit compatibility when you understand it, and awfully confusing if you don't.
But in essence, you matched up the symbols on the unit noses or buffer beams, two "Blue Stars" can M/U together, but a "Blue Star" and a "Red Diamond" would be unable to M/U requiring another Engine Driver and Helper. They would be double heading, just like in the days of steam.
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Post by jamesbrodie67281 on Mar 24, 2015 19:25:59 GMT -8
Very interesting and note taken of all the comments. Thanks folks.
I smiled at the comment 'yard brake' we called it the 'straight air brake' For quite a few years upto the eighties we were still running trains with unfitted wagons and so the train brake was never used but as we were ex steam men and we worked our trains with the engine steam brake infact a lot of our ex NER engines only had the steam brake and tender hand brake using the straight air brake on the new diesels was second nature. We also dropped the side window to look down to see how we were checking our speed. Speedometers meant nothing to us at first.
I'll put my violin away now........................James.
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Post by Spikre on Mar 25, 2015 10:47:37 GMT -8
 James, a lot of time in Hump Operations the cars would be pulled and shoved up the Hump with the Air Hoses unconnected.this led to Brake Sleds of differing types to help the loco stop the cars,some went further and used powered "Slugs". Slugs could be almost any former loco from Switcher frames with weights on them,to F unit shells,or early road switcher bodies from F-M,Baldwin,Alco, or even EMD. now 6 axle power is used here at Acca Yard,but Acca is Flat switching. 6 axle power took awhile to be used at Lamberts Point to shove the loaded Coal hoppers up the steep grade to the dumper,but are a standard now. should be some vids on Y-Tube of Lamberts Point,or other Hump Yard Operation,look around for them. Spikre 
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