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Post by MONSTERRAILROAD on Apr 14, 2015 13:43:02 GMT -8
Ok so I just got this email from brasstrains.com and it is for an "All New" Big Boy from Glacier Park Models and the big draw is that therw will be "Many versions never produced before" well when you look at the price of $3,500 I know this model better run on real coal and water!! WTH!! Listen, even if I wanted a Big Boy there is NO WAY in the world I would drop $2,000 for the model so do not even think about $3,500 but who is going to reserve one of these things? I bet it will be one of those "REAL LIMITED RUNS" that will produced about 10 in total. I do like Brass models but Only SD70ACe and SD70M ones that cost $600-800. I could not believe when I saw the $3,500 price tag but maybe to steam fans and Big Boy fans "That is a real deal"? So is it? What is the latest most expensive price for a Big Boy in brass and plastic? Well all I know is that, I WILL NOT BE RESERVING ONE OF THOSE THINGS! HA! Here is the link: brasstrains.com/NewBrass/Trains/Projects/783/HO-Scale-Union-Pacific-Big-Boy-4-8-8-4 |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Apr 14, 2015 14:35:21 GMT -8
Well, it DOES have sound. That's it. Yeah.
Ed
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Post by bnsf971 on Apr 14, 2015 14:54:27 GMT -8
I guess if you're handy with money, and have to have every brass locomotive ever made, you would want one.
I think most people, even brass collectors, will pass.
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Post by SOMECALLMETIM on Apr 14, 2015 15:14:46 GMT -8
Wow $600-800 for a locomotive. I know I won't be reserving a loco that costs $600-800. Who would pay that? Sounds like someone with a lot of money to pay for what they want. Oh, did I just answer the OP question about a #3500 loco?
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Post by alcoc430 on Apr 14, 2015 15:25:33 GMT -8
Even if I won lotto I would not consider a $3500 lokie. Any way isn't Athearn doing these? This price may help athearn sales.
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Post by Spikre on Apr 14, 2015 15:32:09 GMT -8
 sure they will have NO trouble selling the 1st run of 10-12-15-18 or so units, but doubt there will be a second run. and How many versions of the Big Boys were there ? the second order had a few small differences from the 1st order,but after that its mainly just small things that were moved,changed or modified. there is a Micro Market for this type of stuff. and seem to recall some more expensive Brass locos in the 90s. be nice to have an HO loco worth more than my car !!  Spikre 
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Post by dtinut on Apr 14, 2015 15:32:32 GMT -8
Well, "if " I had metric tonnes of cash, then I'd consider it.
Compared to a 70ACE, there are way more parts to have to make. Consider this... If each part costs a dollar to make, how many parts are there in a BigBoy vs 70ACE?
But I don't have that kind of dough, so am not considering it.
Brian
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Post by TBird1958 on Apr 14, 2015 15:38:30 GMT -8
I'm not sure I could have $3500.00 worth of fun with any HO steam loco  |
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Post by grahamline on Apr 14, 2015 16:47:58 GMT -8
I was hoping someone would do a Big Boy . . .
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Post by riogrande on Apr 14, 2015 16:51:31 GMT -8
Imagine the folks who are interested in this would be Doctors, Lawyers and Indian Chiefs, er, or Celebrities. That's out of our leagues it goes without saying.
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Post by bdhicks on Apr 14, 2015 17:02:29 GMT -8
Is there anything wrong with the modern plastic Big Boys that would possibly be fixed by getting a brass model?
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Post by bigb6flyer on Apr 14, 2015 17:07:11 GMT -8
I wouldn't spend $600-800 on a model either.
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Post by atsfan on Apr 14, 2015 17:21:52 GMT -8
Same people buying $80,000 cars, or $1000 apple watches.
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Post by MONSTERRAILROAD on Apr 14, 2015 17:32:52 GMT -8
I wouldn't spend $600-800 on a model either. Well you could spend $299 on a new Athearn SD70M or SD70ACe or Spend about $600 for one PERFECT brass model. IMO a 2:1 ratio makes the brass version not crazy. Even paying a little higher on a brass model and a little lower on the plastic version the ratio would only grow to about 3:1 which is still not outrageous considering the quality of the brass model and longevity of the value. However, At $3500 for the brass makes a ratio that is about 6:1, meaning 6 plastic models to 1 of those new brass ones listed. Athearns Big Boy is about $550 right? So you could buy 6-7 of those Big Boys or 1 Glacier Park Models Big Boy. |
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Post by bar on Apr 14, 2015 17:37:45 GMT -8
The lack of self-awareness by some people is staggering. The same people who think $350 for a non-sound plastic loco is just peachy. Or $100 for a plastic auto rack. (Or the brass tractor-trailers from a few years ago, victims of the recession, poor things.) Furthermore, the stock market is out of control, everything is tracking upward. Except middle class wages.
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Post by santafe49 on Apr 14, 2015 17:38:39 GMT -8
But Al, it's FREE shipping. That has got to make it worthwhile.
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Post by peoriaman on Apr 14, 2015 17:46:48 GMT -8
Well you could spend $299 on a new Athearn SD70M or SD70ACe or Spend about $600 for one PERFECT brass model. I'll take the Athearn version! Ain't no amount of weathering that's going to fix the lame, shallow hood and battery-box doors, hinges and latches and the super-coarse radiator screens of the brass model. |
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Post by bigb6flyer on Apr 14, 2015 18:09:50 GMT -8
I wouldn't spend $600-800 on a model either. Well you could spend $299 on a new Athearn SD70M or SD70ACe or Spend about $600 for one PERFECT brass model. IMO a 2:1 ratio makes the brass version not crazy. Even paying a little higher on a brass model and a little lower on the plastic version the ratio would only grow to about 3:1 which is still not outrageous considering the quality of the brass model and longevity of the value. However, At $3500 for the brass makes a ratio that is about 6:1, meaning 6 plastic models to 1 of those new brass ones listed. Athearns Big Boy is about $550 right? So you could buy 6-7 of those Big Boys or 1 Glacier Park Models Big Boy. I was made a trip to my LHS today. I am glad I am out of the "accumulation" phase of the hobby; what was just a year ago $50 is $97 (auto racks). 3 years ago they were $32. 5-8 years ago,...eh you catch my drift. What I'm saying is, I've got one loco a purchase a year maybe coming my way from here on out. Everything--loco, rolling stock, detail part, electronics--it has to earn its way onto my layout. I have to really want it AND need it. The "elasticity of demand" has been met in the marketplace for me when it comes to the price of NEW models. I will wait for what I want & need to appear on the used market than spend $50-100 for a single car. . I've found that 20 to 25 locos is the most I can manage before stuff starts collecting dust. I like to run trains, not collect them. Brass is just not in my universe. The detail now (and sometimes the quality) of plastic just outweighs any long term upside to me. I'll take the savings and invest it, stick in my kids 529, pay off my mortgage, or take the better half on date night. To each their own though. If brass is your thing, by all means go for it. Just at even at the 6-800 range it's not for me. Put me in the 'Id rather have 3 high detail/should be high quality/I can super detail it plastic locos than 1 brass one' camp. Enjoy the hobby guys, but don't go broke or too crazy. Brad |
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Post by MONSTERRAILROAD on Apr 14, 2015 18:25:40 GMT -8
Well you could spend $299 on a new Athearn SD70M or SD70ACe or Spend about $600 for one PERFECT brass model. I'll take the Athearn version! Ain't no amount of weathering that's going to fix the lame, shallow hood and battery-box doors, hinges and latches and the super-coarse radiator screens of the brass model.
Remember the Overland Models Inc. Announcement of the Caterpiller SD70ACe a few years ago, the SD70ACe with Ant Farms on the cabs and even newer "Heritage" SD70ACe? Not one of them ever came to life. We will NEVER see those engines from OMI. They are a dead ship in the water and their only driving force that is keeping them moving is their paddles (Overland Hobbies business) otherwise that ship would have already sank. They did not deliver any of those "announced models" but they sure had a $100 increse in MSRP from $960 to $1060 and that was 2-3 years ago! Do you think that price would still stand today IF they were to produce another engine? Nahhh man, they would add another Franklin on top of that and the MSRP would surely rise to $1160. But don't worry, there is no engines coming from OMI from this point on IMHO. Remember the days when you would see an OMI brass model of any new engine on the rails? Not anymore dawg. There have been newer ES44AC and SD70ACe prototypes that have been released by Athearn, Intermountain, and soon to be MTH (ES44AC) with nothing in the works from OMI. |
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Post by bigblow69 on Apr 14, 2015 19:27:29 GMT -8
I'd rather have 2 Lionel "O" scale ones for that price.
Even with the release of all the ES44AC's you would think that all the brass ones would be easy to come by.
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Post by jamesbrodie67281 on Apr 14, 2015 19:36:18 GMT -8
For $3,000 plus are you sure it's not brass plated gold ? I wouldn't even pay half that price for an 0 gauge scale brass chooch.....JB.
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Post by atsfan on Apr 15, 2015 3:52:28 GMT -8
I'll take the Athearn version! Ain't no amount of weathering that's going to fix the lame, shallow hood and battery-box doors, hinges and latches and the super-coarse radiator screens of the brass model.
Remember the Overland Models Inc. Announcement of the Caterpiller SD70ACe a few years ago, the SD70ACe with Ant Farms on the cabs and even newer "Heritage" SD70ACe? Not one of them ever came to life. We will NEVER see those engines from OMI. They are a dead ship in the water and their only driving force that is keeping them moving is their paddles (Overland Hobbies business) otherwise that ship would have already sank. They did not deliver any of those "announced models" but they sure had a $100 increse in MSRP from $960 to $1060 and that was 2-3 years ago! Do you think that price would still stand today IF they were to produce another engine? Nahhh man, they would add another Franklin on top of that and the MSRP would surely rise to $1160. But don't worry, there is no engines coming from OMI from this point on IMHO. Remember the days when you would see an OMI brass model of any new engine on the rails? Not anymore dawg. There have been newer ES44AC and SD70ACe prototypes that have been released by Athearn, Intermountain, and soon to be MTH (ES44AC) with nothing in the works from OMI. The brass market is basically dying. |
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Post by riogrande on Apr 15, 2015 4:11:40 GMT -8
The lack of self-awareness by some people is staggering. The same people who think $350 for a non-sound plastic loco is just peachy. Or $100 for a plastic auto rack. (Or the brass tractor-trailers from a few years ago, victims of the recession, poor things.) Furthermore, the stock market is out of control, everything is tracking upward. Except middle class wages. Does it really matter? Everday I see people with stuff out there that makes me think the same thing - someone driving a monster truck to work with tires that probably cost over a grand a piece or you name it. Examples of financially unreasonable things abound every where you look - life goes on. As far as the high priced brass market goes, it's obviously aimed mainly at a limited group of well to-do individuals who have the means to buy this kind of thing - just like the celebrities with multi-million dollar homes, or collections of luxury cars. The good thing about the train hobby is you can get engines that have RR specific details and look like brass models of yor, but are plastic and a good deal less expensive. There is a wide variety in the RR hobby now to fit most budgets - including the big budgets. |
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Post by enginseer on Apr 15, 2015 5:15:51 GMT -8
Interesting discussion.
Only a Limited group of well-to-do-individuals to purchase these things?
You guys really think $3500 bucks for a brass loco is out of reach for any but the really wealthy? Or just to be purchased by the stupidly irresponsible?
At what point does a purchase become "irresponsible"?
Sure, I wouldn't pay that much for one, but I know several folks who make considerably less money than the rampant speculation in this thread would suggest on scale model cranes of all types... and they still manage to put food in their mouths.
It's not uncommon for hobbyists to have things like this. Especially if it's the one model you'd like to display.
If it's a quality model they'll sell all they make... and they won't all be purchased by the 1%.
As long as you don't end up on the public dole as a result I could care less and might even ask to come marvel at it myself!
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Post by bigb6flyer on Apr 15, 2015 5:41:08 GMT -8
I was talking to a non-train friend the other day about my layout. We were talking about hobbies in general. I said I am fortunate that although 3 of my hobbies are expensive, they aren't dead end propositions, like many.
For example, our trains. I'd say when I have resold items I've bought new, I probably recoup up to 60-70% of its original price in the resale. It's even higher when I've bought used. I'm ok with that. The loss I chalk up to my price for the time I enjoyed that model.
My other two major interests have similar returns. Guitar for example. I bought a used strat I'll probably never sell but if I needed to, since it was used and if I continue to take care of it, I'll probably recoup most of it. Same with firearms, another interest. Yeah I'll never get the money for spent rounds back, but I'll probably get most of the initial purchase price back on a resale. (As an aside, I tend to buy things I want to keep and even hand down vs resell).
My point is, many people have hobbies where it is impossible to recoup almost anything from the original purchase. Rare is it people actually sell old fishing gear. If you owned a fishing boat, you may get some $ back but the maintenance costs, fuel, fees, etc? You may get a few dollars for your golf clubs but how about all those greens fees? You could argue the same thing about a train layout. You'll get some $ for your locos and rolling stock, but rare to get much $ for track and structures.
Anyways, just got me thinking.
Brad
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Post by bigblow69 on Apr 15, 2015 12:03:16 GMT -8
I can't think of anyone I know that has not spent $3500 in total in this hobby.
Whats the difference if you have many things for $3500 or one thing? Its still $3500.
I think the logic "more has to be better" in both price and quantity is flawed. Sometimes neither is the case.
Have no need for a Big Boy. My "bucket list" of models is nearly complete. And a brass UP Big Boy NEVER was on it.
Personally they should slap another $500 on the price just because its an excursion version and people would buy it.
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Post by jaygee on Apr 15, 2015 16:44:07 GMT -8
At $3500. it's not too bad, Hey the Challenger B&O EM1, which went for about 1900. back in '99, is now a solid $3600. And at Brass Expo, a Ajin UP GTEL 8500 went for nearly the same...without paint and with only one motor! There are people who will pay for this super Big Boy, even if it's a small number. I'd rather have a LOT of other stuff for that money, like four complete Walthers passenger trains with motive power! At least the Big Boy fans can opt for a plastic or hybrid model for a ton less dough. The UP Big Turbine lovers just have to take it on the chin..there's no plastic option..but plenty of excuses !
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Post by bigblow69 on Apr 15, 2015 17:15:10 GMT -8
At $3500. it's not too bad, Hey the Challenger B&O EM1, which went for about 1900. back in '99, is now a solid $3600. And at Brass Expo, a Ajin UP GTEL 8500 went for nearly the same...without paint and with only one motor! There are people who will pay for this super Big Boy, even if it's a small number. I'd rather have a LOT of other stuff for that money, like four complete Walthers passenger trains with motive power! At least the Big Boy fans can opt for a plastic or hybrid model for a ton less dough. The UP Big Turbine lovers just have to take it on the chin..there's no plastic option..but plenty of excuses ! I can see one of the last runs of ajin turbines selling for $3500. Seems to be the going rate for a non used one, at least what I've seen from brass trains .com listing. I recently seen an Ajin C&O Steam Turbine sell on ebay for the same. |
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Post by jaygee on Apr 16, 2015 15:28:38 GMT -8
The price for these GTEL8500s is getting really bizzare; the newest incarnation gives up the powered B unit for extra interior detail...and the horn moved on the A unit. Some are painted and some are not. Why this model hasn't been done in plastic yet is a real study in model RR politics. The "economics" excuse won't work on anyone with half a brain! Hopefully the first importer of this machine is someone who can get it right...or at least so close that I can't tell the difference. FWIW, I'd go for a plastic copy of the old KMT Alco !
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Post by calzephyr on Apr 18, 2015 14:12:58 GMT -8
Brass continues to be imported and this one will probably be very nice. The first ones I ever owned was by PFM Big Boys and they were about 3/8" too long. I got rid of those when the Key Big Boy models came out, I jumped on those and now have several of the Key imported versions that every hatch and sand fillers open along with excellent detail. As for running the models, I only run the die cast PCM/BLI models since they have sound and pull much better than any of the brass ones. I am happy to say I will not be spending $3500 on that new model.
Larry
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