|
|
Post by fr8kar on Jun 25, 2015 18:35:33 GMT -8
Lately I've been spending much of my modeling time working on 3D models for my Shapeways store, but I managed to squeeze in some actual modeling time this week. During the early 80s, Santa Fe and other railroads experienced a problem as trailers up to 45' long were able to move around the US. That meant these trailers needed to be handled on flatcars and few flatcars were set up to do it. In addition to the Twin 45 and Dual 45 conversion programs going on, railroads tried alternatives to handling these long trailers. Santa Fe repurposed wallboard flatcars as TOFC flats while Southern and others converted old boxcars to TOFC flats. After modeling the ATSF FT-33 TOFC flatcar in 3D, my mind turned to the Southern version. I remember having several Front Range/McKean cars when I was a kid, from the ACF covered hoppers to the spine cars and Front Runners, but I never got around to picking up the TOFC cars converted from boxcars. That is until the other day. I scored a two-pack of these cars on ebay. I realized that much of these cars would need to be replaced, so I planned ahead and bought some additional parts. At some point in the past I ran across Joe Shaw's webpage (great info and photos on numerous cars, not just these. Highly recommended) on these cars. I dusted off that unused part of my memory and searched out the page and sure enough it was still there. Here's the link: www.krunk.org/~joeshaw/pics/ns/flats/tofc.shtmlThe McKean model is pretty similar to these cars but it has a solid floor, so I cut that out. I also replaced the hitch with a Details West part. The trucks from Front Range/McKean were always pretty worthless (remember the rotating bearing cap trucks?), so they went in the trash and got replaced by Exactrail 70 ton trucks. I have yet to replace the draft gear but that should be remedied by an order to Moloco soon.    It still needs tons of work, but why not see what it looks like with a 45 footer on it?  There's an unsightly mold parting line along the side of the car that I'd like to remove, but that means I won't be able to save any of the factory lettering. Not a big deal, but I'll need replacement decals. Does anyone know of NS or Southern decals appropriate for this car? |
|
|
|
Post by dti406 on Jun 25, 2015 19:30:55 GMT -8
Oddballs made the NS decals for this car, also the C&NW decals, but I have never seen the C& NW decals and a friend that ordered them never got them so I don't know if they were ever made. I have done two of the NS cars, but not with all the modifications you have made, and I have 4 sets of the NS decals in stock for more cars, each set does two cars.  Rick J |
|
|
|
Post by drolsen on Jun 25, 2015 21:38:48 GMT -8
|
|
|
|
Post by riogrande on Jun 26, 2015 7:22:19 GMT -8
That is a timely post. I purchased one of those a few months back, however one of the major issues I noted was weight. The model I purchased was Front Range Southern flat car appearing like the NS car as Rick shows. I am still now sure how to get weight in the body.
|
|
|
|
Post by Spikre on Jun 26, 2015 8:09:41 GMT -8
 RC, if Casted Correctly,and Assembled carefully, the Front Range Swivel trucks with or with out Rotating Bearing Caps would work just fine. it may have been that using the T-K Models 40' UPS/Parcel Trailers were the easiest way to add weight to the Cut Down Boxcar-trailer flat kits. the Trailers were a lead alloy and were rather heavy,maybe a Pound ? McKean did rework the kits to add weight,but they lost something in the retooling process. it may have been easier to just leave the Front Range cars at a loading area instead of actually running them in trains ? just another Better Idea from Front Range to liven up the 80s modeling scene !! Spikre 
|
|
|
|
Post by GP40P-2 on Jun 26, 2015 8:25:36 GMT -8
just another Better Idea from Front Range to liven up the 80s modeling scene !! Spikre Well that is about the nicest definition of Front Range that I have heard. It kind of sums them up well! Usually it is more like  Nice job on the flat, fr8kar! |
|
|
|
Post by Spikre on Jun 26, 2015 8:39:17 GMT -8
 gp40p2, am separating the Actual Models Produced from the Questionable Business Practices. Swivel Trucks,not the 1st. Rotating Bearing Caps,not the 1st P88 wheels,not the 1st,but the 1st in Mass produced kits. good post 1955 Dreadnaught Ended 40' and 50' Boxcars,not the 1st,but plenty of variety. plastic working Knuckle Couplers,maybe the 1st ? but they did need more development. unit train dummy couplers that were Kadee Compatable,maybe the 1st ? 1st Scale Width Hood GP9 that was a GP9,some details off,hood too low,but it led to Better GP models that followed. there were more,but Front Range did Try New Things,how Successful they were mostly depended on the Modelers that actually Built the models. still like the Front Runners, too bad EL never had any. Spikre
|
|
|
|
Post by fr8kar on Jun 26, 2015 9:50:54 GMT -8
Looking at Rick's model now that's the car I remember, the Front Range model. I don't know the details of the Front Range/McKean (and beyond) saga, and maybe this thread isn't really an appropriate place to discuss it, but I thought the Front Range tools generally went to McKean so the inventory was very similar. Unless the Front Range version of the converted boxcar lived on in the McKean catalog, I suppose that thought is in error. Anyway, it worked out nicely that there was a model made of the prototype I wanted to model, even if the model itself is pretty subpar.
Jim, as far as weight is concerned, the kit I have came with a flat steel weight that fit between the bolsters. That was a good solution for this kit since it had a solid floor. Once I removed a portion of the floor, that weight wouldn't work. I substituted lead sheet where there was still some floor above the frame. It's still light, but as long as I have a train placement restriction on these cars, they should be fine.
Speaking of weight, I've been playing with the idea of 3D printing some weight to fit in some of these intermodal applications where an empty car should have a see-through floor or there's not a lot of space to hide a weight. The trouble is there is a certain amount of shrinkage that is to be expected with the metals that Shapeways offers, and I don't have details on percentages of shrinkage or predictability, so I'm hesitant to put much money into developing the idea. Still, it is tempting to try. I have some older Walthers well cars that I'd love to have see-through well bottoms.
Spikre, I remember those rotating bearing cap trucks well. They came with the Front Range spine car if I'm not mistaken. I couldn't get them to roll very well. I also had some rotating bearing cap trucks that came on an Athearn or MDC boxcar, but I can't be sure if they were OEM parts or not since I got the car second hand. It used a thinner gauge wire for the axle but the concept was similar to the Front Range truck design. Those trucks didn't roll well, either. I also remember the heavy pot metal UPS trailers. In fact, I just ran across the ad again when I was working on the ATSF TOFC flat.
Now the Front Range 4 Runner/Front Runners, well, they were just awful. Thankfully Walthers saved us with their version.
|
|
|
|
Post by fr8kar on Jun 26, 2015 9:53:33 GMT -8
just another Better Idea from Front Range to liven up the 80s modeling scene !! Spikre Well that is about the nicest definition of Front Range that I have heard. It kind of sums them up well! Usually it is more like Nice job on the flat, fr8kar! Thanks! I once worked on a Front Range centerbeam flat. Halfway through I started looking at one of my Walthers centerbeams and realized the only useful purpose the Front Range kit could serve was to provide me a guide to cut up and reassemble the Walthers car. My other Front Range experiences are similar. |
|
|
|
Post by dti406 on Jun 26, 2015 10:32:00 GMT -8
For the Front Range Cars,, they usually came without weights, I did use my old Durango Press 45' Trailers as they had metal running gear which added some weight to the car. I usually run them at the end of the train so the pulling forces do not tip them over or pull them off the track on curves.
I always liked the Front Range Box Cars as alternatives to the Athearn Car as they had separately applied grabs and ladders although some of the other detail parts were crude and I have replaced them with extras that I had with Branchline and Intermountain kits. I have built and modified a lot of the old Front Range cars and still have a lot in the car inventory. I do have a Centerbeam Flat which I started but never finished, and it may always be that way since I have the Exactrail cars.
Rick J
|
|
|
|
Post by dtinut on Jun 26, 2015 11:24:46 GMT -8
FR offered something different when the only others were MDC and Athearn. I dont usually think about too many of the train set mfg stuff, as it is usually crude at best.
These kits were not bad, and can easily be upgraded using other parts. They are great fodder for kitbashing.
Better than McKean cause they changed it all to cast on details VS. Separately applied.
Brian
|
|
|
|
Post by fr8kar on Jun 27, 2015 10:19:03 GMT -8
That WC flat really has me intrigued, Dave. The articles in Model Railroader I used to prepare drawings of the ATSF FT-33 TOFC flat showed a simplified version of the scratchbuilt model that was created using an MDC Roundhouse flat, a hitch and some rub rails. In other words, this WC flat bears a striking resemblance to this simplified flat. What would be a good match for the WC flatcar? |
|
|
|
Post by atsfgp7u on Jun 28, 2015 3:47:57 GMT -8
Hi guys, The two TOFC cars made by McKean and Front Range represent two different cars that shared the same number series. The one with half the deck missing is a model of the Ortner built prototype of this style of car on the Southern. Here is a link to a photo of 151040 southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/inter/151040.jpgand on Page 56 of the September 1984 RMC there starts a multi page article with four prototype photo of the class car SOUTHERN 151000, sitting on the "photo track" at Ortner Car Co. The cars were in series 151000-151502 but I don't know how many of this style were built and the highest road number I've seen is 151168. Note the deep rib running along the top of the sideframe which is different from the later cars and matches the model with the half-deck. The article states that the TOFC was converted from a 23 yo (so 1961) 50foot, 50 ton box car. There are more photos of both styles at this website, but it is very slow to load individual pics. southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/inter/inter.htmlThe second car has the flat sideframe of the later prototype, but lacks the partially exposed underframe and stringers of the later prototype. No idea why they didn't do the open deck and the deck surface doesn't match prototype photos I've seen either, but as Ryan showed, the car is a good starting point. These cars were in SOU series 151000-151502 and 155000-155999 and as Dave Olsen mentioned, were re-lettered to NS, but I don't think I've seen any of the Ortners in NS livery. The XTRA/CNW conversions were not the same car and were converted from Evans (IIRC) 50' boxcars. Here is a link to the Oddball decal set for both XTRA and CNW mopac1.tripod.com/438.gifcheers Dave North |
|
|
|
Post by fr8kar on Jun 28, 2015 11:59:33 GMT -8
Thanks for the link to those prototype photos of Southern cars, Dave. I'm as excited to see them for the trailers as I am for a prototype reference for the railcars. Do you know of any decals for the Southern lettering for these cars? I'm a sucker for the bold initials and numbers on Southern equipment.
|
|
|
|
Post by dti406 on Jun 28, 2015 12:09:34 GMT -8
Ryan, Herald King makes the Southern Decal shown below, may still be available.  Rick J |
|
|
|
Post by fr8kar on Jun 28, 2015 12:15:56 GMT -8
Rick, are you referring to the trailer? I was talking about the flatcar, but I've got a few undecorated Milepost 501 kits laying around here that I would love to finish in that scheme.
|
|
|
|
Post by dti406 on Jun 28, 2015 12:23:07 GMT -8
Ryan,
I tried to do the Southern Flat Scheme using Champ decals on a scratchbuilt car I did, but the decals just did not look right and I abandoned it. Maybe we could convince Hubert Mask to make a set, as he does a lot of Southern Freight car decals.
Rick J
|
|
|
|
Post by nsc39d8 on Jun 28, 2015 12:32:06 GMT -8
I have had some success using N scale decals on my HO Southern equipment. Hubert does a block lettering decal for a Southern flatcar that might be useable, I have not looked at it.
What is the kit number for this Southern flat from Front range I still need a few.
|
|
|
|
Post by drolsen on Jun 28, 2015 20:24:57 GMT -8
ShellScale would be a good candidate for producing the NS flat decals, and possibly the SOU. I'll send him a note
Dave
|
|
|
|
Post by atsfgp7u on Jun 28, 2015 23:17:00 GMT -8
Hi Ryan, No, I don't know of a decal set for the SOU TOFC. Hubert Mask would be my first suggestion as James said. He offers to do a set and seems to produce them pretty quickly. The Front Range stock numbers for these cars was 4130-4139. The SOUTHERN trailer decals I'm looking for are on this trailer and were very common from the late 70s thru nineties. www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3362482I think Microscale had a set for these but I can't find it on their website. Maybe we could get Hurbert Mask to do both the flat car & trailer sets??? cheers Dave North |
|
|
|
Post by atsfgp7u on Jun 28, 2015 23:33:54 GMT -8
I've just sent an email to Hubert Mask asking if he's interested in producing either or both of the Ortner flat and later trailer decals.
cheers
Dave North
|
|
|
|
Post by fr8kar on Jun 29, 2015 3:05:09 GMT -8
Great suggestions for the decals, guys. Thanks for reaching out Dave and Dave!
|
|
|
|
Post by dti406 on Jun 29, 2015 5:09:24 GMT -8
I also would like the decals for the early conversions (Front Range Car). I still have eight more of those to build.
Rick J
|
|
|
|
Post by nsc39d8 on Jun 29, 2015 5:37:25 GMT -8
Her is a link to Hubert's flat car decals, which I think can be adapted to this car: maskislanddecals.com/decals/freight/87233.htmlAs I also stated try N scale decals. The trailer in question is a done by either Athearn or Front Range in that scheme. That is the late simplified scheme. Microscale has the correct decals for Southern containers and Herald King does the large block for green intermodal on the trailer, both are correct for their respective types. |
|
|
|
Post by dti406 on Jun 29, 2015 5:56:48 GMT -8
James,
That would be fine for the road name, but the other data is incorrect and the placement is much different on the cars. the Capy Data and dimensions from the Oddballs NS set would work, but it would be nice to get a complete set for the Southern.
Rick J
|
|
|
|
Post by atsfgp7u on Jun 29, 2015 21:07:43 GMT -8
Hi guys,
I received a reply from Hubert Mask asking for direction to the reference material.
I'm sending him all the URLs i can find for the SOU cars and later stencilled Southern trailers.
I'm also providing Hubert with dimensioned scans of the two cars sides, so he can be sure the decals will fit (especially the early car, as the reporting mark & road number need to fit the side frame below the rib).
I know some of you (Dave Olsen for one) want the later NS decals, so could I suggest you put together a list of URLs (and high res photos if you have them) and email them to Hubert at maskisland (at) hotmail (dot) com
I'll let him know that reference material for the NS scheme may be coming to him.
cheers
Dave North
|
|
|
|
Post by drolsen on Jun 30, 2015 0:30:49 GMT -8
Thanks, Dave - I'll contact him too.
Dave
|
|
|
|
Post by fr8kar on Aug 18, 2015 15:46:56 GMT -8
Any update on decals for these cars?
|
|
|
|
Post by fr8kar on Sept 13, 2017 17:07:23 GMT -8
Time to dig up this old thread... Hubert Mask did end up creating the Southern decals for these cars. One set will do two cars so I picked up a set. After I got the decals we knew we were going to be moving so I packed the project away. Well the move came and went. I'm finally starting to get settled and I've carved out a little place to do some painting. I keep my models in shoe boxes and these were in the piggyback flat shoebox. So when I got the Santa Fe Fuel Foiler out to replace the hitches I took these cars out and set them aside. When I packed them away I had finished up modeling the bracing visible after removing the floor and I had smoothed out the side sills by filling in the sunk-in areas and sanding off the raised parting line.   The prototype cars are similarly smooth, save for raised bolt heads at the bolsters and in groups of six at the lateral braces. I modeled these by harvesting some rivets off an old Athearn blue box plug door boxcar.  I laid out where all the bolt heads would be using some dial calipers and drilled no. 80 dimples into the sills. Then I sanded the sides down again to remove any trace of the scribing and scratching I did with the calipers, which left deposits of gray primer in the dimples. It was a simple matter to place the rivets onto the sill and secure them with MEK. I also installed A-line stirrups, BLMA straight grabs and Detail Associates cut bars in Plano brackets.  Here's what it looked like when the primer was applied:   Some Model Master Sand paint for the deck...  And Model Master Rot Braun for the rest of the car:  Finally, I installed some Sergent SBE couplers and the Hubert Mask decals were applied this morning.    That's it for now. Maybe I can get a decent shot or two in the sun in the next few days, hopefully with a trailer or two. |
|
|
|
Post by nsfantodd on Sept 13, 2017 18:12:05 GMT -8
Amazing...Those turned out so good...hard to believe how they started!!
I owned a few years ago, sold them off when I decided to concentrate on current NS.
Todd
|
|
