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Post by nebrzephyr on Jul 11, 2015 4:16:45 GMT -8
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Post by atsfan on Jul 11, 2015 5:51:40 GMT -8
Interesting
How does one install the version with all of the wires?
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Post by gmpullman on Jul 11, 2015 5:58:43 GMT -8
I might be willing to bite on the electric version. I have an Overland Cleveland Union Terminal P1a that would like to have a "voice".
The 10" Westinghouse air whistle would probably be my choice for the whistle.
Thanks for the heads up!
Ed
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Jul 11, 2015 6:01:08 GMT -8
Interesting and logical progression in the field. I hope they have simplified instructions as part of their package.
The wires go to all the lights, power inputs and speaker wires that allow one to put the decoder in a locomotive that is not pre-wired with the plug on the board. Takes more time than just plugging into the board but is not a killer for most HO scale stuff. I'd hate to try and hardwire an N scale engine. You do have to be able to cut, strip and solder wires.
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Post by theengineshed on Jul 11, 2015 7:19:01 GMT -8
Be interesting to see what the street price is...
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Post by mlehman on Jul 11, 2015 7:24:39 GMT -8
I'd say $60 - $65 sounds about right. The best thing here for many will be the size of what will be Soundtraxx's smallest decoder. That's good news for us in HOn3. It's a full-featured decoder, too, so not all neutered like some of the OEM Tsunamis with more limited choices. www.soundtraxx.com/dsd/econami/index.php?l=featuresIt's noted that an "Updated, easy-to-use CV roster for customizing motor, lighting, and sound settings" is part of the package. I've found that understanding the Tsunami is a breeze compared to QSI, but YMMV. What's kinda interesting is that this is NOT yet the next-gen Tsunami, which means it's going to be all this and more. |
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Post by Mark R. on Jul 11, 2015 8:16:16 GMT -8
Sounds like they are still using their old sound files though. Those horns seriously need upgrading. The sample horn sounds like it's electronically generated as opposed to an actual horn recording ....
A better sound decoder means more than new features, it needs updated sounds as well.
Mark.
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Post by nebrzephyr on Jul 11, 2015 10:09:52 GMT -8
Unfortunately the photo of the "wired one" is pretty small. But it appears the wires from the one side are for the typical 8/9 pin DCC connector. The wires from the other side I'm guessing are for the speaker and for a CurrentKeeper if you want to use one. I seem to recall someplace in the description it talks about ease of attaching a CurrentKeeper.
Bob
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Post by mlehman on Jul 11, 2015 14:42:43 GMT -8
Sounds like they are still using their old sound files though. Those horns seriously need upgrading. The sample horn sounds like it's electronically generated as opposed to an actual horn recording .... A better sound decoder means more than new features, it needs updated sounds as well. Mark. Mark, If this was the new next-gen Tsunami, I could see your point here. But it's not. It's an affordable decoder targeted toward those who thought sound was too expensive, for instance. It's a Buick Century of a decoder, not a Corvette. I liked what I heard from the steam sound, which is more important to me. Things seem pretty decent there compared to my Tsunamis. Took a listen to the diesel sounds and I'll admit that horn could stand improvement, but that can probably be helped with the equalizer to some degree...don't have any diesel Tsunamis so can't do a direct comparison. But you have 16 choices versus the 5 or 6 that the Tsunami has (presuming the diesel Tsu have the same number of horns as the steam) and others may be better One thing's for sure, I think it's awful hard to draw firm conclusions prior to actually hearing a decoder operate (online samples are probably not representative, if for no other reason than your computer speakers are way better mediums to reproduce sound than anything in a HO scale loco) if sound is the most important criteria, maybe even a bit unfair. |
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Post by Mark R. on Jul 11, 2015 16:31:16 GMT -8
That's true Mike. But I've never been a huge fan of the regular Tsunami diesel either ...
Mark.
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Post by theengineshed on Jul 11, 2015 16:40:07 GMT -8
I'm currently sold on Loksound, but if the street price of these is closer to $50, could see stuffing a few of these in EMDs, with a nice speaker...
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Post by mlehman on Jul 11, 2015 17:19:24 GMT -8
That's true Mike. But I've never been a huge fan of the regular Tsunami diesel either ... Mark. Yeah, it kind of sounded like that to me. But maybe I've got a tin ear from listening to Tsunami's too much?  I'd say give them a chance. People want lower priced options these days and this sounds like a serious effort to do that. So it's not exactly viable to even say people should want the best all the time. Sometimes you can afford all the best, more often only some of it and at least some folks can only afford a little of the best or even none of it. I think Soundtraxx made a pretty good effort to give people decent sound and lots of features for an affordable price. BTW, for engineshed's question on street price, I'd expect somewhere around $65 on an $80 list price. They are cheap enough to sell a four pack and maybe get it down to $60/per, but you'd have to be getting a really good price to see it at $50. Manipulating the CVs/controls can result in significant changes in Tsunami performance. I am not an expert on it, just a somewhat experienced use. I often find people having an issue with Tsunamis and they literally do not know they've overlooked an entire feature, like the equalizer that could manage the shrill warble on the diesel horn (not saying you're unaware of it, you probably know, just forgot it could apply here.) Or jerky starts, which are a bit of a project to solve, but it's all there. That horn is more annoying than attention getting, which to me is what makes a horn, so I agree something needs attention. If I hear anything more on the sound sources, I'll advise, as I rather doubt they weren't recorded somewhere, even if the processing sounds lame on that diesel right there. And you gotta admit it's pretty cool to be able to get link-and-pin coupler sounds on a diesel decoder  |
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Post by bdhicks on Jul 11, 2015 17:47:06 GMT -8
I was a bit surprised they went with the 244 instead of 251 to represent Alco, but I suppose as always my modeling interests do not line up very much with the general model railroading populace. Of the dozen or so Alcos I have in various stages of completion, the only non-251 model is a 539
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Post by atsfan on Jul 11, 2015 17:51:40 GMT -8
What makes zero sense is to botch the actual sound files.
Huh?
It costs no more to have real sound versus a DustBuster. MTH does the same thing.
Fewer bells and whistles OK.
But even the cheapest cell phone can...........make phone calls !
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Post by davidmbedard on Jul 11, 2015 18:11:19 GMT -8
Did they address the movement before loading issue? To me that is the single biggest issue that keeps them from competing with Loksound.
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Post by antoniofp45 on Jul 11, 2015 18:55:03 GMT -8
David, Hey, fancy seeing you here!  Welcome aboard man. Yes, my issue with Tsunami as well. From what I can see, it appears that Soundtraxx is trying to do something similar to what we have with the Loksound Select. More power to Soundtraxx but I do hope that eventually Soundtraxx updates some of those horn files. Would be neat to hear a more robust Nathan K5LA and Leslie A-200, which now seem to sound rather muffled when compared to the brighter sounding TCS Wow and QSI Titan versions. Did they address the movement before loading issue? To me that is the single biggest issue that keeps them from competing with Loksound. |
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Post by Mark R. on Jul 11, 2015 19:16:34 GMT -8
Did they address the movement before loading issue? To me that is the single biggest issue that keeps them from competing with Loksound. Common misconception that modellers have acquired. Notch 1 on a real locomotive does not increase engine rpm. All notch 1 does is engage the traction motors to the engine's idle rpm. The engine rpm doesn't actually increase until notch 2. This is obviously most noticeable on an engine running light. With a train connected, chances are pretty good the engine won't begin to move in notch 1 anyway. When first applying power to a loaded train, the engineer will usually move to notch three or four to load up the engine in order to attain sufficient pulling power. We, as railfans, hear this ramping up prior to the train actually moving and assume that's how it functions. Not so. Even Loksound decoders load up before they move .... and they themselves admit it's wrong, BUT .... they provide an option to turn it off and operate as it should. Mark. |
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Post by carrman on Jul 11, 2015 20:54:38 GMT -8
I'd have been more impressed had they announced the next gen Tsunami; not this thing. Way to keep losing to Loksound.
Dave
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Jul 12, 2015 10:22:40 GMT -8
Be interesting to see what the street price is... $65 in an email I got this morning from one of my sources of stuff. |
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Post by atsfan on Jul 12, 2015 10:55:33 GMT -8
If I am going to buy a sound decoder it will be LokSound.
Why? They have the best, you know, SOUND.
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Post by mlehman on Jul 12, 2015 12:01:57 GMT -8
Karl,
Sounds about right with standard discounts.
For all the gnashing of teeth over it not being the next-gen Tsunami, doesn't have this or that whizbang feature, probably doesn't do what they want because they haven't bothered to read the manual from the last Tsunami, etc, I think what Soundtraxx is doing is realigning their own product line for the introduction of the next-gen Tsunami. The Econami line gives you almost Tsunami features and performance in a smaller package (or a 21-pin package -- Hey, I could use one of those! -- or a large scale package) for about 2/3 the price of a Tsunami.
I'd expect the next-gen Tsunami to be close to the present price. The market is competitive and I doubt Soundtraxx would want to come in above what others are by getting substantially more cost dialed in up front for modelers. It will offer various improvements, some to keep up with the competition, others likely unique to it.
Sound won't get substantially cheaper, but I think it is a move that shows how the quality bar moves upwards incrementally as the market matures and grows more competitive. You have a lot of options and I'm sure folks in Durango know that. In other circles where the Tsunamis see market dominance, they're not held in such disdain, but you can't make everyone happy. I get the feeling most of the complaint here are about the diesel side of things, something which I have no experience with. The complaints, if any, tend to center on things more obscure than what keeps David awake at night, but are at least things that Soundtraxx knows about but doesn't have room on the current chip to squeeze in (IIRC, lack of snifter valve noise at start-up was this particular complaint.)
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Post by carrman on Jul 12, 2015 15:30:49 GMT -8
I'm sorry, but maybe he should be kept awake at night about the fact Loksound has much better sounds than Soundtraxx does. The horns souns like theyre supposed to, the dynamic brake sounds are what the actual locomotive sounded like, not the generic synthesized sound Soundtraxx uses. Right now all Soundtraxx has going for them is their steam offerings, but even TCS is showing up in the rearview mirror now. They are going to get their lunch eaten, and soon.
Dave
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Post by mlehman on Jul 12, 2015 17:31:05 GMT -8
Dave, The Tsunami hit around 2005ish, IIRC. Happy for any corrections out there, but here's an undated wbepage written about that time: tonystrains.com/sound-decoder-comparison/The 16-bit Tsunami was much anticipated because everybody else was 8-bit. And for its day, it was rather remarkable. When I heard the first one in my first Blackstone K-27 a couple of years later, even though I was operating it on DC, it was what convinced me to make the leap to DCC just so I could play with all the goodies. Now 10 years later, that are folks wandering "What have you done for me lately?" Fair enough and as already noted, there's plenty of competition. And they're readily available. So why the hostility toward Soundtraxx? It's not like they've been holding out on a warehouse full of Tsunami-X, slipping a few here and there * Steam only * to a few sworn to secrecy narrowgaugers...because I know a few of those folks and they are as impatient as you. I suspect it's because folks really want that new Tsunami-X to get here, not because it's going to be the Werewolf Child of Sound Decoders...OK, David maybe thinks that, but he's been known to have strong opinions Will it be 32-bit? That would make it even hotter. Downloadable content? I'd almost bet, but maybe not for everything, but I sure don't know. Better diesel sounds? Hey, it's YOU guys who may be holding up this show, they may just be holding back steam so that the much needed -- so they tell me -- improvement in diesel sounds can reach setpoint. Of course, if the diesel sound really is that bad -- an opinion that's not universal -- the downgrading the current iteration to the cheap seats may be just what's called for. You should be rejoicing that you've been given a sign of things to come. Steam. No doubt, if you'd been on the market longer without a facelift, you'd be a VW Bug. I suspect patience will be rewarded -- and maybe impatience, too.  |
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Post by roadkill on Jul 12, 2015 17:49:00 GMT -8
No 251? No turbo 567 or non-turbo 645? No deal.
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Post by atsfan on Jul 12, 2015 17:57:21 GMT -8
They are losing market to Loksound.
Loksound kills them on sound quality.
A minor point for a sound decoder,
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Post by carrman on Jul 12, 2015 19:39:51 GMT -8
I like Tsunami better than Loksound as far as programming ease. It's the sound quality that leaves me wanting. I have no hostility toward Soundtraxx, but they are getting left behind by the competition rapidly.
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Post by antoniofp45 on Jul 14, 2015 3:46:03 GMT -8
In reading posts on several forums regarding sound decoders, you can see that some modelers convey subtle hostility towards manufacturers while others temper their responses with straightforward critiques.
It's easy to become passionate about specific product lines. I thought that I was cool headed in critiquing sound decoder manufacturers. Yet in looking at some of my posts from a few years back on other forums, I did slam QSI for "pitch bending", and a badly fudged EMD turbocharger scheme. But QSI made improvements in the form of its "Revolution" and later the "Titan".
On a calmer note, I have critiqued Soundtraxx for having the same diesel horn recordings that we heard 10 years ago. Plus the horn sounds are quite "subdued" when compared to the current competition.
A friend of mine who is a DCC guru/vendor, put me in check. He reminded me that these small manufacturers don't have piles of money to suddenly upgrade a product line overnight. Obtaining/editing/producing new clean recordings is a time consuming challenge and can be expensive. Software upgrades presents its own issues. Problems with with contracted vendors can contribute to delays, so it is frustrating for the owners to upgrade and finally get the product to market....... only to see that the technology is already becoming dated and the competition has gained a few steps ahead. From my understanding, this was part of the issue with the Tsunami.
But things have changed quite a over the past several years and it's so neat that today we have a good variety of products to choose from. TCS's entry into sound has been a welcome, competitive game-changer.
I'm going to assume that Soundtraxx has been monitoring the market and listening to customers. I wish the best to Soundtraxx and hope that the new Tsunami will provide LokSound and TCS with solid competition.
In the end, it's our wallets that will do the talking. Win-win for us.
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Post by mlehman on Jul 14, 2015 7:19:55 GMT -8
In reading posts on several forums regarding sound decoders, you can see that some modelers convey subtle hostility towards manufacturers while others temper their responses with straightforward critiques. It's easy to become passionate...SNIP A friend of mine who is a DCC guru/vendor, put me in check. He reminded me that these small manufacturers don't have piles of money to suddenly upgrade a product line overnight. SNIP I'm going to assume that Soundtraxx has been monitoring the market and listening to customers. I wish the best to Soundtraxx and hope that the new Tsunami will provide LokSound and TCS with solid competition. SNIP Antonio, That's a pretty good take on things. I suspect most who are angsting about Tsunamis have exactly one major interaction with Soundtraxx -- buying diesel Tsunamis. Seems like a long time since that bunch got any love from Durango, but I'm sure Nancy and her crew are paying attention. Being in HOn3, I among those who've been blessed by Blackstone and the attention to customer needs through multiple releases of new products has been nothing short of fantastic. Go to a NG forum and it's like night and day from here. Sure, there's some things we'd like to see, but overall Durango has been very, very good to us. It's not like they live so far back in the mountains they're unaware of the competition, heightened expectations among modelers, and the desire for improvements over the existing product. I'm certain most of the concerns people have will be addressed in due time. In the meantime, with the Econami they've essentially taken most of a Tsunami, repackaged it in a smaller form factor and cut the price by a third. To me, that's a good thing, not model RRarmageddon. |
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Post by antoniofp45 on Oct 28, 2015 12:59:38 GMT -8
I thought posting the following would be appropriate on this thread.
Friend of mine has been installing Digitrax sound decoders in his HO units, but is now interested in trying other brands.
"Sticker price" is a factor since he's on a fixed budget. I saw the decoder comparison chart on the link, but I was wondering if any modelers here have personally heard both, Digitrax sound and the new affordable Soundtraxx "Econami", decoders. For those that have, opinions are appreciated.
As for me, I'm still leaning towards Loksound V.4 and the new TCS WOW units. Loksound's motor control is impressive as are the latest sound scheme offerings. As for TCS WOW sound decoders, I really enjoy the horn quilling feature. Brings back fond memories of my teen years. For whatever the reason, a number of SCL locomotive engineers in Florida seemed to enjoy making music with their units, especially when the K5LA's started showing up around 1979.
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Post by jonklein611 on Oct 29, 2015 5:39:47 GMT -8
I thought posting the following would be appropriate on this thread. Friend of mine has been installing Digitrax sound decoders in his HO units, but is now interested in trying other brands. "Sticker price" is a factor since he's on a fixed budget. I saw the decoder comparison chart on the link, but I was wondering if any modelers here have personally heard both, Digitrax sound and the new affordable Soundtraxx "Econami", decoders. For those that have, opinions are appreciated. As for me, I'm still leaning towards Loksound V.4 and the new TCS WOW units. Loksound's motor control is impressive as are the latest sound scheme offerings. As for TCS WOW sound decoders, I really enjoy the horn quilling feature. Brings back fond memories of my teen years. For whatever the reason, a number of SCL locomotive engineers in Florida seemed to enjoy making music with their units, especially when the K5LA's started showing up around 1979. Just a couple of threads down: atlasrescueforum.proboards.com/thread/4090/review-soundtraxx-econami-eco-100 |
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Welcome aboard man. Yes, my issue with Tsunami as well. 
