Tangent PS2CD 4750 hopper announced

[unit]

This looks much sharper than the old Intermountain model. Look at the detail on the end cage, the discharge gates, and the brake lines.

tangentscalemodels.com/pullman-standardps-2cd4750cccoveredhopper.aspx

[drolsen]

This is really fantastic news - I can't think of any freight car announcement that could have made me happier! The Intermountain model was good for its time, but it only represented the prototype cars with truck-mounted brakes, and there are many variations on the prototype that will be possible to model with the new Tangent car. I can see myself buying dozens of these in the future.

Dave

[edwardsutorik]

Guess I better be saving my pennies for the BN and the UP ones. It's nice that the intro batch doesn't make any big demands on my wallet. And, yes, fantastic news.

Now, about that 4600. And 5250.


Ed

[atsfan]

Sorry did not see this thread. Is this the same car that IM has had out for 15 years??

[Deleted]

Aug 3, 2012 12:45:23 GMT -8 atsfan said:

Sorry did not see this thread. Is this the same car that IM has had out for 15 years??

New tooling! Woo Hoo!!!!

[riogrande]

Righteo - ok I thought this was a car duplicating what IMR had.

No, I don't have a wad of cash to replace my pretty decent CF4750 hoppers I have from IMR - I think they'll do, although yes, I may have to replace the trucks with ones that won't fall apart but that will be ALOT cheaper than buying Tangent hoppers. I'm not made of money, maybe some are!

[buffalobill]

Rio: Kind of a disappointment, there are plenty of other cars Tangent could of done that were not a duplication of what is still a "good" model. Sure the Intermountain car is a bit dated. But it still stacks up pretty well against the other high end covered hoppers. I am sure not going to go out and dump my IM's and buy Tangents at a 50% higher cost over the IM street price. Will probably switch to the Tangent's for roads I don't have and still want. I love their PS-4740, its probably the nicest HO RTR car out there. Just wish they focused their efforts on another prototype.
Bill

[roadkill]

A little too new for me... sigh... but damn nice.

[drolsen]

Aug 3, 2012 12:45:23 GMT -8 atsfan said:

Sorry did not see this thread. Is this the same car that IM has had out for 15 years??

The Intermountain model was good for its time, but it represents only the prototype cars with truck-mounted brakes and one style of discharge gates, and its level of detail pales next to the level that Tangent is offering. The Intermountain car's side posts are also too wide, which tends to interfere with certain paint schemes where the lettering fits between the posts. Once I learned about that issue, I gave up trying to modify the few Intermountain undecorated kits I have and decided to wait for a better model. The Tangent car will make it possible to replicate the many prototype variations of this ubiquitous hopper. The Intermountain model would be like Athearn or Kato only producing the early version of the SD40-2 with early radiator grills and a 81" short hood. That would only cover a portion of the prototypes out there.

Bill - Many of us have been lobbying David to produce a Tangent PS 4750 ever since the release of the PS 4740. For many of us, redoing the PS 4750 represents everything that Tangent is trying to achieve with his products. It's the freight car equivalent of the Highliners F-unit model, allowing him to offer the many prototype variations of what is possibly the most important covered hopper ever built. As an example, just look at the undecorated models being offered in this first release. He is producing a version with truck-mounted brake gear, one with body-mounted brakes and the trainline running down the center of the car, and one with the trainline running along the side of the car. But wait - all of these are cars without the narrow roof overhang at the end of the car (which the Intermountain model has), so none of these variations have been offered by Intermountain. Here are two prototype photos for comparison:

CSXT 250823 (note how the large letters of the "CSX" logo fit between the ribs) without the end roof overhang:
www.garethbayer.co.uk/wotw/wp-content/gallery/north-america-ca-czry/csxt250823gb_151005.jpg

CSXT 251145 with end roof overhang:
drolsen.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2039203

Tangent will undoubtedly be releasing the overhanging roof version of the model (as mentioned in the product description) in a later run.

I know that this type of detail doesn't appeal or matter to everyone, but Tangent is going to a lot of effort to produce this model for those of us that it does matter to, and we sincerely appreciate it. Like I said earlier, I personally couldn't think of a better prototype for Tangent to choose for his next new model so that this important prototype can finally be represented accurately.

Dave

[curtmc]

Sigh... Another duplicate model aimed for the 5% instead of the 95%...

I hope Tangent isn't expecting thousands and thousands of sales on a model that IM has already flooded the market with (in both accurate and inaccurate paint schemes).

There are many who will just keep their IM 4750s that they spent $10-20 on, and not go the $45 replacement route...

[buffalobill]

Dave: I don't disagree it is going to be a extremely nice car, and an a significant improvement over the almost 20 year old Intermountain tooling. But with all of the prototypes out there that have not been modeled in HO scale, I hate to see the duplication. BLMA and Exactrail battling with the UP Reefers for example. I wish David had done something that was previously not done. A GATC 4500 CF covered hopper for instance. I have 19 Tangent cars, including 14 of the PS-4740's. They are best in class. Like I posted previously, I am not sure that there are that many modelers who are willing to trade up, and with out the market for the car, I would be worried he will not be able to get a decent return on his die investment. There are plenty of other prototypes out there for Tangent to do an superb job on.
Bill

[atsfan]

Tangent cars are excellent. But I have many IM cars so buying a ton of new ones at $40 plus each is not going to happen.

[drolsen]

Aug 3, 2012 16:35:57 GMT -8 buffalobill said:

Dave: I don't disagree it is going to be a extremely nice car, and an a significant improvement over the almost 20 year old Intermountain tooling. But with all of the prototypes out there that have not been modeled in HO scale, I hate to see the duplication.

Bill - I understand where you're coming from, but that really missed the point of my post. In my mind, this first Tangent release is not a duplication, because the versions Tangent is producing have never been done by Intermountain. That's how I look at freight cars - the same way that many people look at diesels. I see this as Intermountain having produced the equivalent of an early SD40-2 with chicken wire radiators and an 81" nose, and now Tangent has produced a different "phase", i.e. the SD40-2 with corrugated radiators and an 88" nose. If you were to buy any of the models in this run, you're not duplicating any Intermountain models because Intermountain hasn't produced these versions. I'm sure that was David's intent with picking these first roadnames and numbers for the first release - to clearly show that they differ from the version of the car that Intermountain produced. The problem is that Intermountain has applied any paint scheme they wanted to their version of the model, regardless of whether they match the prototype (I believe some are even 4740 schemes).

If someone were to produce an ACF 4600, but only do the later style without the horizontal stiffener along the side of the car (like Accurail's model), I would want to see the early version with the side stiffener produced, as well as the very early version with high ladders. I wouldn't consider those to be a duplication of the existing ACF 4600 model. That's the way I see this - Intermountain did not produce a model that covered all the prototype versions of the PS 4750, and Tangent is now producing those other versions. A portion of his models will end up duplicating the small portion of the Intermountain paint schemes that were correctly applied to their version of the model with truck-mounted brakes and end roof overhang. However, the majority of the Tangent models will not be a duplication, because they will be correct paint schemes applied to the correct version of the hopper. I'm glad that Tangent will be duplicating that small number of Intermountain cars so that the level of detail will match the other (new) car versions that Tangent is making. That's how I look at this model, because those prototype variations are interesting and important to me.

However, I understand if someone has a lot of Intermountain models with (no offense) paint schemes applied incorrectly to the version of the PS 4750 that Intermountain produced and doesn't want to invest in buying the (again, no offense) correct Tangent cars. I also understand if anyone is not interested in the prototype differences that Tangent is replicating. But from my perspective, simply calling this a duplicate and writing it off as such would be like someone call the early and late (with quiet kit) SD40-2s that Athearn produced "duplicates" of their original mid-production SD40-2. I personally never really bought many of the Intermountain cars (I think I have 3 RTR and a dozen or so kits) because I wanted a better version of the model that would better match the prototype. I'm glad to see that model finally arrive.

Dave

[pltbrnch]

I have to agree with the disappointment on seeing this announcement. I have TONS of Intermountain 4750's and as nice as these look, I can't afford to rebuild my whole fleet. Heck, I'm so plugged with IM's I'm not even purchasing any more of theirs, either!

Would have loved to see a covered hopper that HASN'T been done before (thinking TRN 4750 or Berwick/Ingalls 4750). If either of those had been announced, my wallet would have been in serious trouble. We're talking 12 or 24 pack trouble!

As it is, I don't see purchasing ANY of these beautiful-looking new cars. Sad, really.

[riogrande]

I'm with Curt and BuffaloBill on this one...

Sure, it's nice to have a more detailed model, and who can argue with a better detailed model. But given that Tangent could have produced a model of RR car that hasn't been done yet, thats would I would prefer. I am fine with the level of detail on my IMR CF4750's, and most of the newer ones have the etched metal roof walk etc. I surely won't be replacing mine - at the cost these will be the upgrade won't be worth it. Certainly there are some cars which I could upgrade that are more worthy, like say Athearn blue box cars - which Tangent has duplicated like the CF4740 - but right now I still have too many cars on my want list that I don't have. Bottom line for me is I may never get any of these. To date, there are two brands of HO train cars I don't own yet, one is Tangent and the other is Kay Dee. I wouldn't mind owning some but for some reason there are other freight cars which are always higher on my list. D&RGW wasn't a major grain hauler in the 70's and 80's so the covered hoppers tend to be supporting cast rather than the main characters.

I too would rather see something done that hasn't... but Tangent seems to march to their own drum - as my wife would say... "crack on"... Dee wut yu want tee! Hopefully they will make something I really want and need! I would like some of the Union Pacific coal cars but ... *sigh* so many freight cars more than money to spend!

[cnw]

Well I'm not going to be buying too many of the first run because I have IM versions of most of these cars. So from that perspective, I'm a little disappointed in the announcement. I would have upgraded my C&NW fleet in a heart beat because that is my primary road. IM has still not done the CNW green with the yellow and black ball employee owned logo. For the life of me I don't know why. I hope Tangent does them. I will be buying a couple of the private named roads though and adding some 4000's and 4740's to the mix too. Once I see some C&NW cars I'll be breaking out the wallet big time for 12 to 24 and hope my wife doesn't find out I spent that much on toy trains! :>

[edwardsutorik]

I'm especially looking forward to the UP billboard version of this car--IM's font is unacceptable. Like others, I don't have the bucks for wiping the IM cars off the slate, but I expect all new 4750's will be Tangent.

Ed

[atsfan]

You gotta admit that Tangent has the best website.
You look at those cars and you just WANT them.

[riogrande]

Aug 4, 2012 8:07:31 GMT -8 atsfan said:

You gotta admit that Tangent has the best website.
You look at those cars and you just WANT them.

You got that right! I have always looked at the Tangent cars in the photo's with amazement, and in a way I'm surprised I haven't bought one yet just to have one and stare at it in person. Eventually I probably will get some, but not to replace existing cars.

[curtmc]

I'm not saying that Tangent models are not excellent models... I'm just saying that I'm not going to pay that much for a PS4740 or PS4750 when I already have multiple dozens of the prior versions that I bought at 1/4 of the price...

(I do have Tangent PS4000s and they are fine cars, but even at discount I think they cost too much)

[riogrande]

ditto

[cnw]

Curt, trust me, the Tangent cars will make you want to replace every one of your old cars. I understand your position, I'm in the same boat. I just can't afford to replace 100 grain cars. Since I model the midwest I can really use about that many, perhaps more depending on my next layout. If I get what I want I'll definitely need about 100 more. I'll buy them over time, but I'll be buying Tangent quality cars.

[atsfan]

Aug 5, 2012 20:12:00 GMT -8 cnw said:

Curt, trust me, the Tangent cars will make you want to replace every one of your old cars. I understand your position, I'm in the same boat. I just can't afford to replace 100 grain cars. Since I model the midwest I can really use about that many, perhaps more depending on my next layout. If I get what I want I'll definitely need about 100 more. I'll buy them over time, but I'll be buying Tangent quality cars.

100 ?? Who has only that few grain cars???

[tom]

Just got a message from Tangent which stated that my Penn Central 4750 covered hopper car was shipped out today so I should have the car by the end of the week!

I think that the 4750 is an excellent choice by Tangent as I feel that the Intermountain 4750 car is dated. The Intermountain car was one of the first real kit cars that I built and I had a number of them but somehow they disappeared from my layout.

While the tangent car is remake of the car there really wasn't a good option for me for a PC 4750. Intermountain offered this car decorated in Penn Central but in a non-PC green so that was basically worthless. I could have started with an undec kit (I still have one somewhere) but the only decals were the old Herald King set which was inaccurate and would not result in a car that I would be happy with.

So instead I am getting the Tangent car. I know the car will have an accurate green color, the graphics look excellent, no details to change, the correct coupler, trucks that do not fall apart and more.

The car is expensive but for me at least a better value than the Intermountain car. I am not building a fleet of these cars but instead this is just one car in my slowly building PC grain train that consists of Railyard, Atlas, Walthers, and Exactrail cars.

Looking forward to receiving the car!

[atsfan]

Aug 7, 2012 13:43:04 GMT -8 tom said:

Just got a message from Tangent which stated that my Penn Central 4750 covered hopper car was shipped out today so I should have the car by the end of the week!

I think that the 4750 is an excellent choice by Tangent as I feel that the Intermountain 4750 car is dated. The Intermountain car was one of the first real kit cars that I built and I had a number of them but somehow they disappeared from my layout.

While the tangent car is remake of the car there really wasn't a good option for me for a PC 4750. Intermountain offered this car decorated in Penn Central but in a non-PC green so that was basically worthless. I could have started with an undec kit (I still have one somewhere) but the only decals were the old Herald King set which was inaccurate and would not result in a car that I would be happy with.

So instead I am getting the Tangent car. I know the car will have an accurate green color, the graphics look excellent, no details to change, the correct coupler, trucks that do not fall apart and more.

The car is expensive but for me at least a better value than the Intermountain car. I am not building a fleet of these cars but instead this is just one car in my slowly building PC grain train that consists of Railyard, Atlas, Walthers, and Exactrail cars.

Looking forward to receiving the car!

Certainly many of us will pick up one or two.
But not fleets.