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Post by rockisland652 on Sept 28, 2015 7:26:04 GMT -8
There was a comment on another thread in the HO scale board that mentioned lit number boards.
I have a Walthers F7 with this feature. Now, all the lighting is obnoxiously bright on the thing. The headlights hurt to look at for more than a second. This has been partially remedied with a light baffle that splits the full-disk-of-the-sun nose door light into something that more represents the twin sealed beam headlights that the prototype had. It is still far too bright.
What makes matters worse are the lit number boards. They light up like the prototype ones did at night - during the day!
Show me a picture where you could even tell that the number boards are lit in broad daylight. Even the modern stuff with their LED lit boards don't shine out during the day.
And...how many of you regularly feature nighttime ops? I run some stuff at night. It looks cool and hides the Pacific PlywoodTM scenery.
So my vote would be NO. No lit number boards. Nope.
What say you?
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Sept 28, 2015 8:42:09 GMT -8
Couldn't agree more Tom.
Number boards on older locomotives consists of three to four 50 watt rough service bulbs. THEY ARE NOT BRIGHT AND more than often get a nice layer of dust and dirt on top of the bulb, especially in cab units. The LED lighted number boards are much too bright. I thought we were running model trains, not toy trains.
The LED headlights on these models are much more powerful than the prototype. Plus an LED NEVER looks like an incandescent BULB. The bulbs in an Athearn unit are bulbs, but are cheap and don't last. A better bulb like Circuitron's Minilights brand is better. Plus, replacing the lighting in some of these models is much too difficult.
I prefer bulbs, since I model in the 1960's and into the 1970's.
Also, I had a Proto by Walthers PRR E8A set and the LED was so bright it shown down on the track like a cheap Tyco F-unit. I just paid over $400 for this set and it looks like a Tyco with the light seeping out all over?
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Post by mlehman on Sept 28, 2015 9:35:39 GMT -8
Resistors are our little friends who help make such atrocities right. Granted, this should be fixed by the factory. At least Walthers tries. Athearn can't be bothered seemingly. It's a lot easier to fix lit boards than to light unlit ones. I like them, as I do run at night sometimes. And unlit boards at night are really weird.
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Post by theengineshed on Sept 29, 2015 11:14:21 GMT -8
Some decoders let you dim the lights, they do this by cycling the power to the light, it flashes so to speak, but the frequency is high enough that you don't see the flashing. Poorly implemented lighting isn't an excuse IMO to not have lit boards. As Mike says, unlit boards look weird in low light, especially when your layout or club has extensive building and street lighting. I also like to photograph my models and dark boards in low light really blow the realism. Here is a shot at dusk that I took, still bright enough to capture the action handheld with Kodachrome 64. You can clearly see the lead unit has it's boards lit, the trailing unit does not.  CNW 6926 Clinton IA Aug 1981 by Pete Piszczek, on Flickr I've seen lots of units on dim days where you can tell the boards are lit, another example I shot at 800 ASA, not bright light mind you, but still handheld action shot of a moving train.  CSX 8474 Lee Hall VA May 2003 by Pete Piszczek, on Flickr Most of us do not run our model trains in anything close to "broad daylight". Direct sunlight aside, boards are visible on cloudy days, if they are turned on, and you are close enough to the unit to see them. Granted they aren't bright, but you can still tell they are lit. |
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Post by rockisland652 on Sept 29, 2015 11:17:12 GMT -8
Exactly. Dusk. Gloomy weather.
How many of you model these conditions?
I dunno about you, but I head to the train room to escape gloom and darkness...
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Post by theengineshed on Sept 29, 2015 14:23:31 GMT -8
Exactly. Dusk. Gloomy weather. How many of you model these conditions? I dunno about you, but I head to the train room to escape gloom and darkness... I'm certainly not defending the Walthers F7s with their headlight bright boards, but the reality is that many of us use florescent lighting for our layouts. There are no hard shadows, you may be thinking bright sunny day, but the reality is closer to cloudy bright, at best. If your Walthers units had lighted boards that you couldn't see till the lights went down, we wouldn't be having this discussion, unless it is going to morph into a "I don't want to pay for features I don't use" discussion, which is a fair point by the way. FWIW, I take the time to fix the locomotive lighting so it isn't so bright when it shouldn't be, a piece of white index card works wonders sometimes, although with this 'pede I just adjusted the LED so it didn't shine directly at the boards or class lights.  Seaboard Air Line Centipede by Pete Piszczek, on Flickr |
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Post by WP 257 on Sept 29, 2015 15:37:41 GMT -8
I like illuminated numberboards.
I just visited a very nice layout owned by an older gentleman. All engines on the layout have DCC, sound, and lights, including illuminated classification lights (on steam power).
I vote yes.
John
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Post by jaygee on Oct 15, 2015 7:04:02 GMT -8
This is one thing about the Genesis GPs that I can't stand. No lit boards. Yuk! Hopefully P2K will re-release their phase 3 GEEP nine someday soon.
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jhuteman
New Member
Whut cho doin there Bo?
Posts: 46 
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Post by jhuteman on Apr 25, 2016 1:50:35 GMT -8
It was one of the things I really like about some of these new loco's, lit number boards and ditch lights, WAY COOL!
I just can't get mad at these things when they are not like the 'real ones' cause they are NOT 'real ones'!
I'm easily pleased so don't let me stop anybody from rattling the cages of the manufacturers! You proto guys are my heroes and you drive the manufacturers to make the way-cool stuff we all take for granted!
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Post by rockisland652 on Apr 28, 2016 6:29:18 GMT -8
Side by side. The bright boards look goofy. I suppose that you could turn the effect on and off for photographic effect during a long exposure.  Looks better off...  Looks better with filth, but those day glow number boards...too much.  |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Apr 28, 2016 6:51:57 GMT -8
Lighting on a model should be operated the same way as on a real locomotive. Ideally, anyway.
If number boards are on a separate switch on a real one, they should be on a model. If the FRONT number boards are on a different switch than the REAR number boards on a real one, they should be on a model. I think the same goes for all the lighting.
Which pretty much means you'll be using 21 pin decoders, right?
And dimming on the number boards sounds like a great way to go, also.
Ed
PS: I like having lit boards. But. See my above comments.
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Post by roadkill on Apr 28, 2016 10:25:07 GMT -8
One thing I love about Penn Central... their diesels were so filthy you couldn't tell if the numberboards were lit or not  ! |
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Post by canrailfan on May 2, 2016 7:31:50 GMT -8
One thing I love about Penn Central... their diesels were so filthy you couldn't tell if the numberboards were lit or not ! The number board lights on/off switch was probably on but PC couldn't afford to put the bulbs in the number boards.  |
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Post by canrailfan on May 2, 2016 8:02:11 GMT -8
The number board lighting problem is usually due to a model manufacturer using a single piece of clear plastic to illuminate both the headlight and number boards from a single LED. Kato and several other manufacturers have done this for years.
The only way to resolve this is to cut the clear plastic piece apart to separate the lenses for the headlight and number boards. Then three LEDs can be installed with appropriate resistors to achieve the correct brightness of the headlight and the number boards individually. It's fussy to do but the result is worth the effort.
Fortunately many model manufacturers are now separating the headlight and number board lighting in their designs so modifications aren't required.
I often see multiple-unit consists where the trailing units have the step lights and number boards illuminated, this may vary by railroad or local instructions.
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Post by Brakie on May 2, 2016 8:31:51 GMT -8
One thing I love about Penn Central... their diesels were so filthy you couldn't tell if the numberboards were lit or not ! As was the PRR's. My thoughts on number boards(also known as bug boards) is a resister should be used in DC and a CV to dim or brighten the number boards in DCC. Think of it..You could shut off the headlights and leave the number boards lit.. |
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