Is there a model out there nobody has a complaint about?

[mlehman]

Dec 6, 2015 20:45:33 GMT -8 WP 257 said:

SNIP

If there is a model that everyone is indeed happy with, I personally would like to know which one it is, thank you!

John

I'm pretty darn happy with everything Blackstone makes. Sure, there's minor issues here and there, but I love the stuff. Why? If you're in narrowgauge, you know what the alternative is -- or you wouldn't be hanging around the narrower tracks to begin with.

For instance, I have every drop bottom gon they've released -- and every one is a treasure because building even one yourself is quite a project. The brass alternative wasn't cheap either (Division Point @ ~$200/each), yet you need multiples running around or you're just not very Rio Grande-convincing.

And it's not just the DB gons. All Blackstone stuff is equally exquisite with excellent QC.

I suppose there might be an issue or two with the DBs, but none comes to mind as I write. Even if there were, I'm a glass half full sort of person -- and old enough to remember what we used to have to settle for while observant of the tremendous progress made since. If you want perfect, build it yourself...dare you If I can buy darn close to perfect, you won't see me wailing about the missing 2% on a 98% model.

[jaygee]

A brownies fan? yunz are a true glutton for punishment! My MTH J was bound up from the factory and could not be fixed, even by them! OTOH, Rocky's Tavern by Woodland Scenics works just fine...the lousier you put it together...the better it looks !

[WP 257]

I've been accused of being an anal perfectionist, have tried lots of different models, and have been interested in a lot of different railroads. I have changed my railroad interest sometimes when I determine that trying to accomplish what I want will be prohibitively difficult or expensive...so now I just buy what I like and run it.

The very short list of models I've owned that I thought were absolutely fantastic, perhaps very nearly perfect, and wish in hindsight that I had perhaps kept:

Walthers Proto 2000 Santa Fe GP30U, actually very correct as modeled for the early 1980's Santa Fe rebuilds-in-kind. Walthers even got the right cab type with the right road numbers, without adding typical Athearn Genesis relatively massive levels of detail. The Walthers model is pretty close to correct for a handful of Santa Fe units. It appears someone deliberately picked a Santa Fe version that was "easy" to do "correctly". As always, modelers of a specific year are free to add more details. By the late '80's, the class lights in the nose should be blanked, but not necessarily for 1984.

Athearn Genesis SP 4-8-2 (as built, unstreamlined version). They run well, look great, and are wonderful models despite being somewhat lighter in weight such that they may not pull the house down.

Athearn Genesis weathered UP 4-8-8-4. Runs great and looks great! Was a bargain without the sound. Only issue is the weathering is a bit heavy for typical UP appearance, and instead seems to reflect an engine running out its final days of life at the very end. Should have kept it anyway.

MTH Rio Grande L-97 (UP order) 4-6-6-4. Runs great, looks great and smokes more than some of my train friends do, despite being the engine the real DRGW crews did not want and did not like. They wanted more of their own design L-105's which had the extra tractive effort to dig in on the mountains. I should have kept it. It did everything MTH claims it will.


In brass:

Westside Southern Pacific 4-10-2. Ran great even with open frame motor and looked great.

Overland Models Reading G1sa 4-6-2 (and similar anthracite road 4-6-2's built by Ajin at same time). Just great models that run very well, period. Excellent factory paint. Ran great right out of the box with no adjustment required.

Hallmark ATSF Super Crown 2-10-4's. Amazing. Coasting drive. Gorgeous.


That concludes my attempt at a list of models I won't complain about.

John

[eh49]

I don't think I ever heard a complaint about the Proto 2000 Alco RS 27. It is a great looking model of a very rare prototype.

[emd16645]

Dec 7, 2015 18:12:33 GMT -8 eh49 said:

I don't think I ever heard a complaint about the Proto 2000 Alco RS 27. It is a great looking model of a very rare prototype.

My only complaint with the Proto RS27 is that I struggle with justifying them on my Maine roads!

[eh49]

The Demos would be nice demonstrating on the MEC. Looking to follow up on their RS11 purchase.

[railmodeltroy14]

I own several HO models ( just to name a few ) that I have no complaints about...whether they are 100 % accurate or not:

1- OMI C 60 AC

2- IMR ES 44 AH

3- IMR ES 40 DC

4- Genesis GP-38-2

5- Athearn RTR CSX aluminum Bethgons

6- Faller Bieschtal Bridge

7- Kibri Liebherr R-992 and R 922 Mine Excavators, Komatsu D-575 Super-Dozer, WA 800 Wheeled Loader and HD- 785-5 Dump Truck

8- Walthers Cornerstone Union Terminal

9- ExactRail 72' Deck Plate Girder Bridges with see-through walkways and cable hand rails

10- Spectrum Greyhound Bus Terminal

11- Genesis/RTR Automax

12- Micro Engineering 85 ft deck girder bridges

13- Walthers Proto Auto Racks and 86 ft box cars

14- Lima M 1 Abrams tanks

I also have several locomotives, building kits and various kinds of rolling stock that do have blatant flaws in detail, performance or kits that were very difficult to assemble due to poor instructions, too much flash or poor molding part lines but not enough to loose any sleep over.

High Ball,

Lee

[Deleted]

I can't say I have any complaints about any models. Once I get a model I usually take it all apart and degrease all the gears and stuff. Then I check the gears to see if any are cracked or have flashing that needs to be filed away. Most passenger and freight cars get taken apart as well as some of them need adjustments and that type of stuff. I haven't had any problems with any models that couldn't be fixed by taking them apart and putting them back together. Not everyone can do that I suppose as it is very time consuming. Not to mention it's easier for me because I'm taking apart old stock rather than a brand new model that has been payed top dollar for. I would say though that complaining about a model is kind of silly in a way, as it's not really the model's fault it comes how it is. I would take the complaining directly to the company. Some companies have corrected their mistakes from consumers who email them and stuff, but on the flip side you have other companies who just don't care. If a model doesn't work for you, I'd say take it apart or sell it. No need to complain and dwell on it. That's what I think anyway.

[emd16645]

Dec 8, 2015 14:31:28 GMT -8 eh49 said:

The Demos would be nice demonstrating on the MEC. Looking to follow up on their RS11 purchase.

I actually have one that was painted in MEC, would be a natural choice.

[WP 257]

Dec 9, 2015 0:18:31 GMT -8 @monolith said:

Some companies have corrected their mistakes from consumers who email them and stuff, but on the flip side you have other companies who just don't care.

I'm not trying to attack the new guy here, so please do not take what I'm saying that way.

As someone who once upon a time worked for one of the manufacturers, full-time, in between colleges, etc., I think it is easy to say that some of the companies just "don't care". It has been my perception that many people on these forums actually hold that very same opinion, so I'm not trying to single out any one person.

However, in general, for most of the non-trainset-level products, the companies actually do care. The problem is that some of us have extremely high expectations regarding what we think the builders can actually achieve. Money does not exist, in most cases, to completely retool old or legacy products. The manufacturers do look at sales curves, and in many cases, once the initial demand for say a plastic HO PRR N5C, or the N8 caboose, is satisfied (these are actually both good real world examples) the sales of future runs slowly decline and never approach the initial feeding frenzy. So you see a manufacturer painting them in every possibly prototypical roadname and offering them factory assembled now, to maximize what they can get out of their already-paid-for investment--in some cases making minor upgrades over time where it is prudent and not too costly to do so, but it is unlikely that a truly Genesis-level version is going to come along.

Sales of those cabooses, using mostly paid-for tooling, while no longer "stellar" help to pay for other new products to come along. The manufacturer knows that to stay in business they have to have a nearly constant flow of brand new product, because again, once the initial feeding frenzy on a certain product is over, the sales will justify only occasional re-runs--and will not be enough to keep you in business. In fact, not anywhere close.

So not everything has the future sales potential of a Genesis GP38-2. Not everything can be fixed or upgraded to today's standards, because the sales are just not there regardless of how "good" a given model might be perceived to be by us here, the 1% or so most interested parties who do not represent a cross section of the general buying public.

A few folks here are rabid fans of this or that particular railroad (I won't call anyone out) but just don't realize that the demand for items of that particular railroad, in some cases, just isn't as great as they may choose to believe it is. That's one reason I refer to us or some of us as "the 1%".

Some manufacturers have clearly stated in the past they are trying to build for the other 90 or 95%, which has then gotten them in "hot water" with some folks, too. Not every new product can be Genesis-level detail. The market that exists is not enough to support that.

There will always need to be some "Trainman" level items, but that doesn't mean they "don't care".

John

[emd16645]

I think John makes a great point here. A great example of this is with Bachmann. Look at some of their products internationally. A lot of their overseas products are absolutely top notch, Genesis level as many would describe. Are Bachmann's North American offerings at the Genesis level? Hardly. Does that mean they care more about their overseas products, versus their domestic models? I doubt it. It all comes down to the market. Overseas, they see a market for absolutely top of the line models, so they serve it. Here, that top of the line level is saturated with other manufacturers. So they target a different market, lower cost, with appropriate levels of detailing and quality for that cost point. In some ways I think their newest products are a better deal in many ways than some other new stuff. Essentially, Bachmann has taken over the "blue box" title. Affordable models that make good starting points for upgrading. I've seen some fantastic builds lately starting with Bachmann models.

[jaygee]

I would have to say that my Overland U.P. Number 1, and #28 are as close to perfection as you're gonna get. These are the 1999 versions, and later on they seriously damaged these models by removing the drives from the "B" units. What I got by jumping on board in 1999, was the best of all worlds in this case. The later versions SHOULD have kept the all wheel drive, and added DCC / sound to the mix. With any blessings, this saga will have a happy ending!

[WP 257]

Even in brass, I think Overland Models, to at least some limited extent, was being affected by the changes in the plastic and/or plastic hybrid market. Competitors began making product that was perhaps in many ways nearly as good as what Ajin Precision could make in etched brass, if not as good as Ajin. The perception to many buyers was that the plastic stuff, at least for a particular price range, was "good enough" such that they could no longer justify paying the much higher brass prices.

Also, the salaries in Korea were rising, and the price point of the brass models just got out of hand, or at least beyond what most folks (except the very top income collectors) can really afford to pay. So now the market has shrunk dramatically and due to age, etc., only a precious few importers remain.

You got the best you could at the right time, before Overland began perhaps "cutting corners" a little bit to save on cost.

Now they are gone, done, even though their website does not admit it yet, or didn't the last time I checked.

TWO major dealers have now dropped/cancelled all future Overland Models reservations because they do not believe the product will ever be delivered: Caboose Hobbies, in Denver, and Dan Glasure's www.brasstrains.com

I like Brian Marsh and all, but I just don't see them making a comeback in brass. I'd really love to be wrong on this one.

Despite some early struggles with developing Korean builders, their late production was really wonderful, with many models running great right out of the box with no tuning required.

John

[peoriaman]

Dec 9, 2015 9:09:32 GMT -8 WP 257 said:

Even in brass, I think Overland Models, to at least some limited extent, was being affected by the changes in the plastic and/or plastic hybrid market. Competitors began making product that was perhaps in many ways nearly as good as what Ajin Precision could make in etched brass, if not as good as Ajin. The perception to many buyers was that the plastic stuff, at least for a particular price range, was "good enough" such that they could no longer justify paying the much higher brass prices.

Often, though, the plastic models are far superior to brass in certain details. Ajin is particularly bad about lame etched EMD hood doors, hinges and latches and horrific radiator screens. And all too often there is a construction joint in some all-too-visible location where none should be - like on the roof of an F-unit just back of the windshields. I've seen some laughably obvious examples of this.

Even the Ingalls locomotive we love to talk about here on the forum has a big seam on each side where the sheetmetal sides meet the fabricated (cast?) nose. Its a great model otherwise (no lame etched hood doors or gross screens) but the seam on each side stands out as its one real quibble.

[Spikre]

the Last Perfect model was the Tyco PRR J1 Texas.
just ask Lynn Wescott,Norman Tyler or John Allen.
Spikre

[mlehman]

Dec 9, 2015 5:53:43 GMT -8 emd16645 said:

I think John makes a great point here. A great example of this is with Bachmann. Look at some of their products internationally. A lot of their overseas products are absolutely top notch, Genesis level as many would describe. Are Bachmann's North American offerings at the Genesis level? Hardly. Does that mean they care more about their overseas products, versus their domestic models? I doubt it. It all comes down to the market. Overseas, they see a market for absolutely top of the line models, so they serve it.
SNIP

Good point, Chris. They do offer models rarely seen here that are high quality with very favorable price points. Take the starting point for my #82. It a HOe (9 mm gauge like N, known as HOn30 on this side of the Atlantic) model of an Austrian diesel by Liliput, one of Bachmann's Euro-sub-brands now. Comes with an excellent drive, DCC/sound-ready (takes the 21-pin decoders), and with switchable lighting options that also are available in DC. Us price is sub-$150. A very affordable kit allows conversion to HOm (12 mm gauge, same as TT standard) or, if you hack like I do, to HOn3 (10.5 mm gauge).

The chassis (low profile and ease of changing gauge invites other projects)



Paint is not factory

[jaygee]

Oh jah...Good ol' Tyco T235. Had a strange resemblance to the AHM / KTM model of the same time period. I understand a few boxes were actually printed up...or mebby just the labels !

[Deleted]

It's simply amazing to me the countless people on this forum, and the old Atlas Forum that simply like to complain...sure, they'll all clamor for the high end cars...engines...structures...and when the manufacturers deliver...then it's either crickets...or they bitch about the price.

It's completely laughable, IMO...I look at an old MR that I have (Rick Rideout 1991 Issue); and just am amazed at the difference in items then and now...not even close. Only the Kato SD40 and GP35 are still viable from that time frame.

And, all these goof balls that want the blue box back...Ha! What did that bring? Scale Trains puts out a kit of their own...and all they did (the goof balls) is complain about it. The Blue Boxes were simply foobies that needed you to turn a screw driver and snap the lids on the couplers...they weren't accurate models...not even close.

I guess people will complain (like me) about the complainers, too.

Happy Holidays!!!!

[WP 257]

Well, hopefully the video posted by ScaleTrains regarding what actually transpires with a new project will help to provide an "attitude adjustment" for some folks. We can only hope so.

John

[calzephyr]

Dec 10, 2015 13:47:10 GMT -8 WP 257 said:

Well, hopefully the video posted by ScaleTrains regarding what actually transpires with a new project will help to provide an "attitude adjustment" for some folks. We can only hope so.

John

The video is an eye opening type of revelation looking into the process of a model that is coming to market.

I had no concept that the tooling was so complicated in the set up for a shell or any other piece of the model.

We can still review and check on detail since

You can please some of the modelers all of the time,

You can please all of the modelers some of the time,

but you can't please all of the modelers all of the time.

[espee]

I am happy with my three Atlas trainmasters. But I'm sure someone out there has a complaint.

[Spikre]

Espee,
the roof curves in too quickly at the cab.
Athearn got it rite,Atlas didn't.
but overall the Atlas Train Master is still
lite years ahead of Athearn in running and
decorations and Phases.
Spikre

[jbilbrey]

Dec 7, 2015 18:12:33 GMT -8 eh49 said:

I don't think I ever heard a complaint about the Proto 2000 Alco RS 27. It is a great looking model of a very rare prototype.

The RS27 was a gorgeous model.  For a model of a prototype in which only 27 were made, P2K outdid themselves on the tooling effort.  The only "let down" is how the hand-brake chain is molded in two parts.

IMHO, just about every model out there has some sort of error, mistake, compromise, etc., intentionally or otherwise.  We all have to decide how much we can live with and that differs from person to person.

James Bilbrey
LaVergne, TN

[Spikre]

??
James,
wasn't the 1st run of RS-27s too high off the Frame like
the U28/30Bs were ?
think that was due to the Odd Metal Type B trucks.
am still looking for a Demo,would like 640-1 as its reincarnation
as PRR 2415 is here already.
they were nice lookers,,,for sure !!
Spikre

[eh49]

Spike, if I recall correctly, there was only one run.

[WP 257]

The RS-27 model was gorgeous...best handrails ever in HO scale plastic.

Better than the prototype was, lol.

Should have kept at least one of them, and yes, there was only one run.

John

[Spikre]

OPPPPS,
must have been the GEs that were lowered on a later run ?
have only looked at RS-27s in the boxes they came in.
or in pictures in the magazines or on-line.
cant ever recall seeing any in person,but have heard there
are some pics of one or two running on the Erie main line
during early CR days.
the most exotic critters seen personally were an ex-PRR
GP9B,and an ex-PRR T-6 at Croxton Yard.
ex-NH C425s and U25Bs at Maybrook were interesting,but not
really exotic,just odd they were there after the "P" Bridge
fire about 75 or so.
Spikre

[jaygee]

Atlas FM Train Master is too high off the trucks....and though the Athearn trucks are not as well detailed, they look better overall, IMHO ! The cab roof botch job on the Atlas comes from using some incorrect drawings in Ex 2200 s. some decades ago. Sketchy research equals sketchy model !