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Post by eh49 on Dec 6, 2015 7:56:25 GMT -8
My choice would be the Bowser C430.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Dec 6, 2015 8:08:52 GMT -8
My choice would be the Bowser C430. Nope. Somebody complained about the Penn Central lettering. I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain about the Gould/Tichy crane. And there's some Tangent/Exactrail/Moloco stuff I haven't heard a bad word about. But who knows what complainer lurks out there.........? Ed |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2015 9:22:27 GMT -8
I haven't heard any complaints about the MTH J. Actually, most of their non-Pennsy steam engines seem to get generally positive reviews for both accuracy and internals.
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Post by dti406 on Dec 6, 2015 9:31:23 GMT -8
I haven't heard any complaints about the MTH J. Actually, most of their non-Pennsy steam engines seem to get generally positive reviews for both accuracy and internals. The GS4/6 that MTH was correct for neither as the driver size was 77" and was not correct for the GS4 at 80" and the GS 2/6 were 73-1/2". Rick J |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2015 9:41:53 GMT -8
I haven't heard any complaints about the MTH J. Actually, most of their non-Pennsy steam engines seem to get generally positive reviews for both accuracy and internals. The GS4/6 that MTH was correct for neither as the driver size was 77" and was not correct for the GS4 at 80" and the GS 2/6 were 73-1/2". Rick J Welp, there goes that theory. I'm still rooting for the J though. |
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Post by bobschuknecht on Dec 6, 2015 10:00:03 GMT -8
My choice would be the Bowser C430. I love the Bowser C430. I have 10 of them. |
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Post by curtmc on Dec 6, 2015 11:05:22 GMT -8
What a baited question...
The simple answer is "No", because even the perfect model will have somebody complaining about the price... Pricing aside, every HO model has to have some level of compromise for operation, and there will always be some one (or few) who thinks the non-scale detail involved with that compromise should not have been done.
So from the manufacturers perspective they are starting with something "close" at best and any paint errors or wrong detailing errors are downhill from that.
So what you should really be asking about is if there are any "close" to correct models (as close as NMRA standards and the limitations of HO scale allow) that are perfectly detailed and painted to match the prototypes.
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Post by rockisland652 on Dec 6, 2015 11:17:03 GMT -8
If not, the new RI FP7s come damned close.
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Post by eh49 on Dec 6, 2015 12:06:23 GMT -8
Can't really complain about the PC FP7's either. I got 4 of them.
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Post by mlehman on Dec 6, 2015 12:24:39 GMT -8
The Gould/Tichy crane is magnificent...but I have heard folks complain that there are just too many small parts  I put little stock in vague, general complaints tied to the party's unique worldview of what model RRing should be. Those that are specific and likely to be seen as problematic by most people do get my attention. Complaints about pricing are generally dismissed as Trojan Horses to cover for displaced dissatisfaction with one's own budget limits. Considering how little I've had available to spend on the hobby the last couple of years, they get even less sympathy than usual from here. I've had no shortage of fun despite that. But some folks seem to want to make this into a hobby about shopping...well, however you get your thrills I suppose, but the slots might pay off a lot better  |
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Post by bcrn on Dec 6, 2015 13:23:31 GMT -8
proto sd 9 with no provision for a single fuel tank,,, fp7s in the wong paint, heheheheheh just kidding 652, its tolerable with the second headlight
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Post by The Ferro Kid on Dec 6, 2015 15:43:18 GMT -8
The Rapido FL-9 seems a good candidate for pretty close to perfection. Possibly some other Rapido motive power as well. And I still love my TurboTrains, after some tweeking and replacement wheels.
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Post by rockisland652 on Dec 6, 2015 16:55:48 GMT -8
proto sd 9 with no provision for a single fuel tank,,, fp7s in the wong paint, heheheheheh just kidding 652, its tolerable with the second headlight Haha Athearn hit one over the fence with the bases loaded with the RI FP7s. |
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Post by jonklein611 on Dec 6, 2015 17:03:53 GMT -8
The Rapido FL-9 seems a good candidate for pretty close to perfection. Possibly some other Rapido motive power as well. And I still love my TurboTrains, after some tweeking and replacement wheels. Can't complain about something that was 3D scanned from the original... |
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Dec 6, 2015 17:31:33 GMT -8
To date, the only accuracy complaint with the FL9 I've heard about is with PC #5015. The Rapido model has cut back skirts over the fuel tank on the all-black PC #5015, a common PC feature. There's at least one 1971 picture online that shows this particular PC loco painted all black with the full skirts, not the cut back ones. However, there are also pics showing this same loco in PC yellow & blue with the cut back skirts in 1976. So is the criticism valid? You'd have to have pictures showing that PC #5015 got de-skirted just as or just after it was painted blue. To date, no evidence has cropped up, but anything's possible.
The major complaint with the Rapido FL9 is with some numberboards not working. There was a factory assembly error that caused some LED's to be damaged and not work. This is being fixed by Rapido, but I've seen at least 3 or 4 broken LED's at my club (OTOH, all five of my FL9's are perfect).
A contender for a "no-complaint" loco is the Atlas SD26. From what one modeler stated back when these came out (Andy H. of the Diesel List), it was the first loco he'd ever bought that he hadn't had to do anything to make it right.
Oh, and another "no-complaint" model would be the BLI California Zephyr cars (as long as they aren't Amtrak). These cars were considered pretty doggone perfect when they came out, with only some Amtrak modelers complaining about the old letterboards still being on the model (Amtrak had removed them). But in their original appearance, they're considered very close to perfection.
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Post by roadkill on Dec 6, 2015 17:46:09 GMT -8
Anything from Tangent. I dare ANYONE to find something wrong with their models. Especially the X58. That car just blows me away, which is why I have a dozen  . I figure I currently have close to 50 Tangent cars and undoubtedly that will grow in the very near future. I would also nominate the Genesis GP40-2, as the ones I have are flawless. |
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Post by atsfan on Dec 6, 2015 17:48:26 GMT -8
Every hobby and interest always has people "complaining" about it.
That is what humans do.
Model Railroading is no different.
You Want complaining, talk to sports fans or listen to the radio.
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Post by roadkill on Dec 6, 2015 17:50:19 GMT -8
Every hobby and interest always has people "complaining" about it. That is what humans do. Model Railroading is no different. You Want complaining, talk to sports fans or listen to the radio. Especially talk radio... YIKES! Doesn't matter which side of the political spectrum they're on they ALL suck!!! Oh, and BTW... I have every right to complain on sports talk shows... I'm a lifelong Browns fan  ... |
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Post by wp8thsub on Dec 6, 2015 18:53:05 GMT -8
Anything from Tangent. I dare ANYONE to find something wrong with their models. Especially the X58. That car just blows me away, which is why I have a dozen Since you dared... - ACF 70 ton Welded Gondola: The WP and SN versions should have steel floors instead of wood. They came with solid bearing trucks instead of the correct roller bearing types (which Tangent did not have available at the time).
- PS 4740 Covered Hopper: The Union Pacific version had the incorrect gray, a very light color similar to that used on UP cars built by FMC, or MP cars from PS, but far too light for the as-delivered UP scheme.
- GSC 60 foot flat: The Union Pacific road name should be spelled out in red on cars without bulkheads (the only ones Tangent so far offers), not black (at least on all photos I've seen). Some bulkhead cars had the roadname in black.
- PS 4750 Covered Hopper: The UP prototypes have angle bracing around the bottoms of the hopper bays, a detail absent from the model. The brake lever bracket and air reservoir are incorrectly located for UP cars.
- X58 Box Car: The Penn Central repaint model has the brake wheel lowered, something often done by PC. The adjacent side ladder should be lowered to four rungs as well, but the model comes with a full height side ladder on the B end. The top rungs are easily removed.
These are just the ones I'm familiar with. There are probably others. None of the above should detract from Tangent being considered among the hobby's best manufacturers, nor has it deterred me from purchasing their products. In some cases, the inaccuracies are very understandable as it would not necessarily be cost-effective to represent every oddball detail variation or have every possible type of truck. I do wonder at times how Tangent has acquired the reputation for being perfect, however, as they are human and make mistakes like everybody else. |
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Post by atsfan on Dec 6, 2015 19:12:55 GMT -8
Every hobby and interest always has people "complaining" about it. That is what humans do. Model Railroading is no different. You Want complaining, talk to sports fans or listen to the radio. Especially talk radio... YIKES! Doesn't matter which side of the political spectrum they're on they ALL suck!!! Oh, and BTW... I have every right to complain on sports talk shows... I'm a lifelong Browns fan ... You Should receiving therapy and meds for your experiences.... |
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Post by dti406 on Dec 6, 2015 20:36:11 GMT -8
Every hobby and interest always has people "complaining" about it. That is what humans do. Model Railroading is no different. You Want complaining, talk to sports fans or listen to the radio. Especially talk radio... YIKES! Doesn't matter which side of the political spectrum they're on they ALL suck!!! Oh, and BTW... I have every right to complain on sports talk shows... I'm a lifelong Browns fan ... I have lived in the Cleveland area the last 20 years and I understand, at least I have not jumped off the 480 bridge yet. Rick J |
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Post by WP 257 on Dec 6, 2015 20:45:33 GMT -8
Excellent question!
Thank you for this topic. Just got here after few days away and haven't read it. Should be interesting.
If there is a model that everyone is indeed happy with, I personally would like to know which one it is, thank you!
John
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Post by WP 257 on Dec 6, 2015 20:56:01 GMT -8
There were complaints about the BLI CZ passenger cars...just some folks chose to ignore them or simply forgot.
I bought 5 or so from an earlier run, and they would not track well and derailed frequently on my 26"+ radius curves (all of which have easements into them). There were issues where the sprung metal "rollers" (for lack of a better term) made electrical contact with the metal plates on the bottom of the floor and dragged roughly due to scarring or arcing. I tried making adjustments to no avail (cleaning/polishing contacts) and dumped those cars like a hot potato. I had also tried changing out the couplers, which did not help with the derailments, and the corner steps are too fat which is a bit unsightly relative to other passenger car models (though I'll grant they are very durable as produced). As much as I'd like to have them, being a WP/DRGW fan, I haven't tried them recently.
My curves take all other readily available (ie non-brass) passenger cars ok. Genesis, MTH, Rapido, Walthers, etc were/are all ok. When I've had other passenger car issues, it was found to be either bad axles which could be easily replaced, or Rapido's very poor knuckle couplers, which I had to replace with Kadee #146 for acceptable operation.
John
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Post by WP 257 on Dec 6, 2015 21:07:16 GMT -8
There were even complaints about the C-430's, particularly the version chosen for the undecorated units. Actual pre-orders must have been limited to those on these forums, because they were so ridiculously low. Bowser had trouble selling most of the balance of the minimum amount they did actually make (though they are indeed gone) and have seriously considered not ever offering undecorated diesels again, so I was informed. (A check of their website tonight does not show any undec diesels coming that I can find.)
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Post by curtmc on Dec 6, 2015 21:39:54 GMT -8
Adding one more to wp8thsub's listing... On the PS3 hoppers the Great Northern cars should have had roller bearing trucks, not the solid bearing the models came with.
Even with those few miscues there is do doubt that the typical Tangent car is a lot closer than most E-Rail cars...
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Post by mlehman on Dec 7, 2015 1:29:42 GMT -8
There were complaints about the BLI CZ passenger cars...just some folks chose to ignore them or simply forgot. I bought 5 or so from an earlier run, and they would not track well and derailed frequently on my 26"+ radius curves (all of which have easements into them). There were issues where the sprung metal "rollers" (for lack of a better term) made electrical contact with the metal plates on the bottom of the floor and dragged roughly due to scarring or arcing. I tried making adjustments to no avail (cleaning/polishing contacts) and dumped those cars like a hot potato. I had also tried changing out the couplers, which did not help with the derailments, and the corner steps are too fat which is a bit unsightly relative to other passenger car models (though I'll grant they are very durable as produced). As much as I'd like to have them, being a WP/DRGW fan, I haven't tried them recently. My curves take all other readily available (ie non-brass) passenger cars ok. Genesis, MTH, Rapido, Walthers, etc were/are all ok. When I've had other passenger car issues, it was found to be either bad axles which could be easily replaced, or Rapido's very poor knuckle couplers, which I had to replace with Kadee #146 for acceptable operation. John John, My CZ cars are very reliable on 28" curves now, after a bit of work. I'm hesitant to call it complaining, because there's a lot to like about those BLI models, but there are a few weak spots as you noted. Here's what I wrote up back when the first run was hitting our shores: cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/54626/2142322.aspxMy only "gee, I wish they'd done that differently" are the split bolster pins on the trucks. They just aren't reliable over the long term. No reason not to have a screw instead, which makes for a more robust connection. |
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Post by atsfan on Dec 7, 2015 5:24:24 GMT -8
There were even complaints about the C-430's, particularly the version chosen for the undecorated units. Actual pre-orders must have been limited to those on these forums, because they were so ridiculously low. Bowser had trouble selling most of the balance of the minimum amount they did actually make (though they are indeed gone) and have seriously considered not ever offering undecorated diesels again, so I was informed. (A check of their website tonight does not show any undec diesels coming that I can find.) Undec diesels are always the last to sell out. Those that paint their own engines in 2015 are a shrinking crowd. Especially when they already can be had factory painted. |
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Post by rockisland652 on Dec 7, 2015 5:57:41 GMT -8
Especially talk radio... YIKES! Doesn't matter which side of the political spectrum they're on they ALL suck!!! Oh, and BTW... I have every right to complain on sports talk shows... I'm a lifelong Browns fan ... You Should receiving therapy and meds for your experiences.... Ugh. The whole Browns thing would be enough. Try not to 'self medicate'. That won't make it better... |
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Post by dti406 on Dec 7, 2015 7:47:07 GMT -8
There were even complaints about the C-430's, particularly the version chosen for the undecorated units. Actual pre-orders must have been limited to those on these forums, because they were so ridiculously low. Bowser had trouble selling most of the balance of the minimum amount they did actually make (though they are indeed gone) and have seriously considered not ever offering undecorated diesels again, so I was informed. (A check of their website tonight does not show any undec diesels coming that I can find.) Undec diesels are always the last to sell out. Those that paint their own engines in 2015 are a shrinking crowd. Especially when they already can be had factory painted. That was the problem with the C-430's, Bowser did do them in almost every paint scheme that they were ever in, although the PC was not correct in many modeler's eyes. But for GP35's 38's 40's and SD40's 40-2, etc. Many have not been painted in all the paint schemes and they don't want to wait years for their favorite railroad to be done, so they will sell better. I am still purchasing Kato undecs so I can add the proper details for my PC and other units. Rick J |
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Post by WP 257 on Dec 7, 2015 10:08:48 GMT -8
Well, I realize that there were some lettering and font concerns with PC.
However, one point that can be made is there was a very vocal, but also apparently very small group of people, who actually contacted and pestered (perhaps the right word, some will argue not) Bowser into offering undecorated C-430's in the first place but then only a few people--literally--pre-ordered any at all. Then folks complained they weren't the right version because they weren't the NYC-version which went to multiple shortlines later on.
As stated above, the number who want to paint their own is a smaller minority than some folks want to believe (and/or some of us think we speak for a larger portion of this hobby than in fact we actually do)
John
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. I figure I currently have close to 50 Tangent cars and undoubtedly that will grow in the very near future. I would also nominate the Genesis GP40-2, as the ones I have are flawless.
